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The Peace-Movement was a Soviet Psy-Operation

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posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by ANOK
I believe this to be nonsense.
No Russians were involved, just the people.


You then believe that the Historians who invested a lot of time researching these connections and the KGB-agents who testified, are talking nonsense. Not to mention that "just the people" do not have the funds involved in these campaigns.


No, I believe they have an agenda to demonize a section of society they feel threatened by.




posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

I had always considered those were genuine concerns of the people that were attempting to lead us out of racial segregation. I have never considered before the Soviets were behind the peace marches, MLK, and such.



You brought up racial segregation. I did not say the Soviets are behind the civil liberties movement and MLK. I said they orchestrated some of the peace- and anti-war movement for psy-op purposes. Those are two different things.


Peace movement en.wikipedia.org...

A peace movement is a social movement that seeks to achieve ideals such as the ending of a particular war (or all wars), minimize inter-human violence in a particular place or type of situation, often linked to the goal of achieving world peace. Means to achieve these ends include advocacy of pacifism, non-violent resistance, diplomacy, boycotts, moral purchasing, supporting anti-war political candidates, creating open government and transparency tools, demonstrations, and national political lobbying groups to create legislation. The political cooperative is an example of an organization that seeks to merge all peace movement organizations and green organizations which may have some diverse goals, but all of whom have the common goal of peace and humane sustainability. A concern, of some peace activists, is the challenge of attaining peace when those that oppose it often use violence as their means of communication and empowerment.

Some people refer to the global loose affiliation of activists and political interests as having a shared purpose and this constituting a single movement, "the peace movement", an all encompassing "anti-war movement". Seen this way, the two are often indistinguishable and constitutes a loose, responsive and event-driven collaboration between groups with motivations as diverse as humanism, environmentalism, veganism, anti-racism, anti-sexism, decentralization, hospitality, ideology, theology, and faith.


The "Peace Movement" I grew up with was not focused singly on an anti-war agenda. It was a much broader social movement with several objectives. By the top of the second page you are commenting about Nixon initiating Affirmative Action and school desegregation, though that's not entirely accurate.

The first large scale desegregation of schools in the U.S. as well as the first affirmative action program was initiated by Richard Nixon, not by peace-protesters.


If you wish now to limit your discussion to the anti-war movement that's fine with me.


edit on 22-9-2011 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by newcovenant
Some eventually joined and others say "formed" NASA and beget operations like the Manhattan Project, .




"Hiroshima" August 6, 1945



"Project Paperclip," 1946



Military Intelligence "cleansed" the files of Nazi references. By 1955, more than 760 German scientists had been granted citizenship in the U.S. and given prominent positions in the American scientific community. Many had been longtime members of the Nazi party and the Gestapo, had conducted experiments on humans at concentration camps, had used slave labor, and had committed other war crimes. In a 1985 expose in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists Linda Hunt wrote that she had examined more than 130 reports on Project Paperclip subjects--and every one "had been changed to eliminate the security threat classification." President Truman, who had explicitly ordered no committed Nazis to be admitted under Project Paperclip, was evidently never aware that his directive had been violated. State Department archives and the memoirs of officials from that era confirm this. In fact, according to Clarence Lasby's book [Project] Paperclip, project officials "covered their designs with such secrecy that it bedeviled their own President; at Potsdam he denied their activities and undoubtedly enhanced Russian suspicion and distrust," quite possibly fueling the Cold War even further. www.conspiracyarchive.com...



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 12:46 AM
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I think that these ex-KGB guys inflate their stories a bit my spy is better than your spy kind thing. Or it could simply be soviet disinformation, what better way to rattle the governments nerves than say we are capable organizing your own people against you.They may have played a role in some of these groups but I think that movements themselves were already rolling. Is there any information not from a Russian defector, or actual Soviets linked to the groups?
edit on 23-9-2011 by ParanoidAmerican because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:13 AM
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Originally posted by spyder550
I actually think this is nonsense. The biggest influence in the war protest was the draft. I was 18 in 1968. The idea of being forced to go to fight an unjust war (police action) with a basically unjust draft system, a well connected daddy could always get you out. The draft brought home the fact that wars have costs, unlike now where the typical American only sees war on a theoretical level -- modern war brought a cut in taxes and no one really had to go, unless they wanted to.

Different when your whole direction in life and could be upset at the whim of a group of men on the draft board. We were also called commies back then, it was us the students against the hardhats, for the most part. My father found that I had been arrested at a protest after Kent state, he became firmly convinced I was a commie and refused to have anything to do with me until I was in my 40's.

The idea that people protested the war because it was a communist plan is as old as McCarthy and I can not be convinced that there was a plot or at least one that actually affected any thing. I don't imagine many in here have had rocks thrown at them and been spit on by their fellow citizens for being a dirty commie war protester.
I was 18 in 65. We heard this commie cry then. It was not a sub current in American politics or culture. It was blasted from the mouth pieces of the American propaganda machine at full volume as it had been in the fifties with the full blessings of J. Edgar. He called commie and waved his lists which when more closely inspected were not much more than innuendo

The innuendo continued throughout the sixties and was used to counter the spirit of revolution rising in our generation. And like Hoover ended having no proof.

As the OP states in his post

Large parts of the "anti-war" movement appear to have been a covert operation to win the Ultimate War
Well it certainly did. But don't ya think that with all that media coverage and national security apparatus and all those militant commie hunters, they would have proved it on the spot? I would, and ya know what? They didn't.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
Interesting that your post brought propaganda from the both the Nazi Party and the KKK on just the first page.


I found it interesting how some tried turning this into a racist vs. anti-racist thread.



You also need to clean this up by mentioning that many, like me who were involved with the Peace Movement found out and quit later on. Most of us were honestly seeking peace and had no connection to the dark side. When we figured it out, we got out of it. The people you are talking about are very violent. They tricked lots of people. They continue to trick them today only the new target is to help wipe out Israel, which is one of their goals. Peace was never their goal.


After the "Cold-War" Israel vs. Islam became the focal point of the game board, with the same people that opposed the U.S. during the Cold-War now opposing Israel.



Dig up anyone connected with Bill Ayers to follow the trail. Right now Ayers is trying to spark a war in the Middle East. He is behind the mess between Turkey and Israel. He and his associates that is as I don't know how much power he has these days. Looks like that so called Peace Activist and self admitted domestic terrorist is having lots of success. This is a long story.


Im remotely familiar with Ayers but didnt know he instigated the Turkey-Israel conflict.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
The Soviets were no longer a factor by the early 80's ... From there another enemy has quietly moved in, and has far surpassed anything the Soviets could have accomplished, on multiple levels, psy-ops being only a component of that.


Could you specify which enemy that is?

Is it a new enemy or has the enemy merely switched hosts?



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK
No, I believe they have an agenda to demonize a section of society they feel threatened by.


You believe that Historians are Collaborating with Ex-KGB Agents to demonize this segment of society?



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
By the top of the second page you are commenting about Nixon initiating Affirmative Action and school desegregation, though that's not entirely accurate.


Yes it is. Its a historical fact.



If you wish now to limit your discussion to the anti-war movement that's fine with me.


This thread is about covert KGB Operations influencing the youth and politics of America.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
Is there any information not from a Russian defector, or actual Soviets linked to the groups?


Yes, a number of Historians have looked into it, one of them is featured in the OP.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


New enemy, similar tactics, at least in regard to psy-operations... As eluded to in my post on page two.


Sorry, didn't mean to get too far off topic, it just happened that this thread came up, as I have been pursuing a theory. Something I hope to be able to cover in more detail in another thread some day. This provided me with some new, although historic information to work with. If the Soviets could do this in those times, imagine what has been done over the last 25+ years by an even more sophisticated "tech savvy" enemy... Into the digital age and to right now... The present!

Thanks for a great thread.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
By the top of the second page you are commenting about Nixon initiating Affirmative Action and school desegregation, though that's not entirely accurate.


Yes it is. Its a historical fact.


So, you want going to go down swinging. Not to downplay what all was achieved during Nixon's time, the landmark legislation of the Civil Rights Act came earlier under Johnson.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88-352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) was a landmark piece of legislation in the United States that outlawed major forms of discrimination against blacks and women, including racial segregation. It ended unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation in schools, at the workplace and by facilities that served the general public ("public accommodations").

Powers given to enforce the act were initially weak, but were supplemented during later years. Congress asserted its authority to legislate under several different parts of the United States Constitution, principally its power to regulate interstate commerce under Article One (section 8), its duty to guarantee all citizens equal protection of the laws under the Fourteenth Amendment and its duty to protect voting rights under the Fifteenth Amendment. The Act was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson, who would later sign the landmark Voting Rights Act into law.




This thread is about covert KGB Operations influencing the youth and politics of America.


That's what I thought. As a youth in America at that time I assure you we had much larger concerns than merely anti-war issues. The Peace Movement had much to do with civil rights, racial equality, and more. It is quite likely the KGB was involved in all that as well as it was all shaking up "the establishment." We had a lot on our minds then.


edit on 23-9-2011 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by Erongaricuaro
 


Im not sure why it is so important to you whether Nixon was involved in desegregation. Its beside the point of the thread anyway. I merely mentioned it to point out that peace-activists were not its prime cause. Here's the dictionary entry for the historical act:




Civil rights
The Nixon years witnessed the first large-scale integration of public schools in the South...

Soon after his inauguration, he appointed Vice President Agnew to lead a task force, which worked with local leaders—both white and black—to determine how to integrate local schools...

In addition to desegregating public schools, Nixon implemented the Philadelphia Plan in 1970—the first significant federal affirmative action program.[159] He also endorsed the Equal Rights Amendment after it passed both houses of Congress in 1972 and went to the states for ratification.[160] Nixon had campaigned as an ERA supporter in 1968, though feminists criticized him for doing little to help the ERA or their cause after his election, though he appointed more women to administration positions than Lyndon Johnson had.[161]...


Regarding your Wiki-Quote: I did not make any claims regarding the Civil-Rights movement, but regarding desegregation specifically.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Erongaricuaro
 


Im not sure why it is so important to you whether Nixon was involved in desegregation. Its beside the point of the thread anyway. I merely mentioned it to point out that peace-activists were not its prime cause.

Regarding your Wiki-Quote: I did not make any claims regarding the Civil-Rights movement, but regarding desegregation specifically.


I didn't come into your thread to disagree with you, I was merely adding to the overall discussion, I thought. It is fine by me if you wanted to limit this to anti-war but you state time and again this is about the Peace Movement and youth politics influenced by the KGB, which I am telling you was a much larger issue with many concerns, all of which it is possible or likely the KGB was involved with as well.

It is NOT important to me Nixon was involved in desegregation, he was, but with your insistence of historical details I am trying to help clue you into the timeline of events. I have no desire to derail your thread as I find the whole discussion interesting, but as you continue to defend your claims you leave open some details where a bit more accuracy can be provided. Re-read the first paragraph of the Wiki quote provided.

Frankly, though I was involved with those concerns during that period of time I am getting weary of this discussion. I don't want to take your thread further off course as you are trying to argue details with me. I am done here.

Edit to add: I will concede that as time continued on in the Peace Movement the civil rights issues had made tremendous headway until after a time the only major concerns left unresolved was with the Vietnam War where eventually almost all attention eventually became focused. The Peace Movement had a broad focus in the earlier years and it seemed "the people" were winning the struggle over TPTB. The Peace Movement may be said to have started around 1958 with civil rights issues and very little concern given to anti-war issues. The Movement evolved as some issues became resolved and others took the spotlight. The KGB was likely along for the whole ride, perhaps helping give "power to the people."


edit on 23-9-2011 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by Erongaricuaro
 


FWIW: I agree with you that the overall civil rights movement is older than the Soviet Union itself and that there is a much larger overall history at play.
edit on 23-9-2011 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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Yep those crazy soviets. And they also created socially aware rock and roll (the beatles were commies), the civil rights movement (I always thought MLK had a Russian accent), woodstock (ever wonder why there was so much red color around?), mass produced '___', mushrooms and tons of weed, paid off the media to show news casts of the disaster that was vietnam, and somehow made the US government to draft low to mid income citizens to fight in the war. Wasn't San Francisco a hot bed for soviet activity, wouldn't surprise me? Yep sounds plausable.
edit on 23-9-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms
Yep those crazy soviets. And they also created socially aware rock and roll (the beatles were commies), the civil rights movement (I always thought MLK had a Russian accent), woodstock (ever wonder why there was so much red color around?), mass produced '___', mushrooms and tons of weed, paid off the media to show news casts of the disaster that was vietnam, and somehow made the US government to draft low to mid income citizens to fight in the war. Yep sounds plausable.


NONE of what you mention is being claimed in this thread. Nor is it true that the Beatles (or MLK, as seen in this thread) were funded by Soviets.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 10:18 AM
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The premise of the thread is that the peace-movement was not only directly or indirectly connected to some soviet special ops program, but the very cause of it. Or did I misread?

I understand that it's a "leading the dog" type of scenario where they lay the ground work and watch it grow, but it's pretty far fetched in my opinion (which is just that). There were simply too many things going on simultaneously which compounded into a movement, with no single event having more affect than the other. Sorry didn't mean to come out like a sarcastic jerk but it's too much to swallow.
edit on 23-9-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-9-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-9-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms
 


I cant say to what extent the Soviet Union was involved in the movement. Id say to a larger extent than commonly accepted, because they anti-American sentiment of the movement was extremely harsh whereas acts of war, violence and nuke-building of other countries never seemed to gain much press...in Europe, Russia or America.

CIA-Propaganda about the Soviet Union was probably more over Hollywood-Movies depicting the Russian as a villain, but nothing as intense and elaborate as this.

However, there is no claim being made that the entirety of counter-culture was created by Soviets. That claim is being made by some, but its not being made here.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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All this said, there is a LOT more out there on the subject. The OP only represents the very tip of the iceberg. I dont have time to post all the details but any of you can go ahead and dig more up on this.

KGB-Bribes to artists, musicians and journalists in the anti-war movement should be a good starting point for research...



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