Gaze/West Bank close to statehood, the end of Israel

and it pains me to say this ^^

reply to post by dontreally


What you have failed to understand is that as soon as Palestine is officially recognised as a nation state they are bound, along with Israel, to a certain 'code of conduct' and WILL be held accountable for their actions i.e. launching rockets indiscriminately at Israel's civilian population would be considered a war crime, likewise a response considered to be targeting civilians of a sovereign nation would also be viewed as and treated as a warcrime.

On the issue of the occupied territories, technically it's against the law to settle occupied land yet the Israeli government has endorsed settlement outside of it's internationally recognised borders, it's most definitely a sensitive issue hence the reason there should be ongoing negotiations. However, as many world leaders have already said, mutual concession of land is what is needed in order to secure a lasting, if uneasy peace.

First off they will not get a "state" because 2 security council members will veto now hold on before you scream off with my head they will however be granted a status equal to that of the Vatican not really a state more like a territory with a voice one one country in the security council voting no will block their bid for state and the US and Brittan will say no

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

So you seek the complete destruction of Israel?

I especially like your "the Jews will be at the sea" echoing Arab threats made before the '48 war.

You people are sick. You are lying just to get Israel into this vulnerable position, whch will mean not just the "end" of Israel, but rather, the deaths of millions of Jews.

Acceptable, of course, to th Gnostic establishment.

"You people"? I didn't say i wanted the destruction of Israel now did i? No i just merely mentioned what is right in front of my face. Personally i'm neutral, i don't want to see either side get screwed over, but someone will get screwed over because thats the way the world works.

I know all too well what Israelites are capable of when their backs are up against a wall. Look up the story of Samson in the Old Testament of the bible. Unfortunately the palestinians don't care, they want what they want when and how they want it and you know damned well where thats going to lead. Most people don't even believe whats in the bible but this is all playing out exactly the way Zecharia and Ezekiel said it would, 99% of the world is against Israel as it is or soon shall be and its only going to get worse.

reply to post by lifeissacred

What you have failed to understand is that as soon as Palestine is officially recognised as a nation state they are bound, along with Israel, to a certain 'code of conduct' and WILL be held accountable for their actions i.e. launching rockets indiscriminately at Israel's civilian population would be considered a war crime, likewise a response considered to be targeting civilians of a sovereign nation would also be viewed as and treated as a warcrime

There are many ways to get around that.

Israel can be baited into war. OR, maybe Palestine will attack itself ie; false flag, and then 'counter' attack Israel, with the support of othr Arab Nations, like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon.....

Theres so many things that can be done. How, is not an issue.

reply to post by dontreally


In my opinion as long as there is religion and nationalism at play in Israel and Palestine there will never be peace. Clearly neither side is willing to take the plunge and make some sacrifices in an attempt at securing even a hint of any kind of lasting peace, hence the only possibility of stopping both sides killing each other is increased pressure from the outside.

UN recognition of a Palestinian state might create such an opportunity so as to exact a significant amount of pressure on the Palestinian authority, as well as hold Israel accountable for actions in the occupied territories. However the chance of UN recognition as long as the US is the sole country who will oppose any motion towards recognising a Palestinian state is virutally nil anyway.
Alas the middle east will be left with the exact same stalemate as there is right now and has been for a very long time.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


That shouldnt be surprising.

The elite of society are folllowing, or rather, creating the scenarios predicted in ancient prophetic and mystical Jewish writings.

The world is all going to be against Israel (similar to what happened to the Jews in the 30's and 40s), as the prophets said. And in the Jewish esoteric writings, like Zohar, its said

Rabbi Yitzhok said: 'The year that The year Melech HaMoshiach will be revealed, all the nations of the world will be provoking each other. The King of Persia (Iran) will provoke the King of Arabia, and the King of Arabia will go to Edom to take counsel, but the King of Persia will in turn, destroy the entire world. The nations of the world will be outraged and panick. They will fall on their faces, and will experience pains like birth pangs..

Could this scenario be anymore believeable??

All the nations in the world ARE Currently provoking each other (or mostly Israel). India has problems with Pakistan, America has problems with Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, Venezuala. China has problems with Taiwan. Russia with many different countries... It seems each of these situations can degrade the same way the world degraded during WWII.

The king of Persia (Iran) will provoke the king of Saudia Arabia... Is this not also plausible? Saudi Arabia has offerred Israel its airspace to attack Iran. Saudia Arabia also provides 40% of the wests oil. Iran could collapse the entire global economy by attacking Saudi Arabias oil fields.

Then it says the king of Arabia will go to Edom. Edom is Rome, or AMERICA. Isnt that also amazing? Saudia Arabia and America are very close, and this 2000 year old midrash predicts that. Saudia Arabia will go to America - their ally beneficiary of Saudi Oil, but the king of persia will "destroy" the world.....

That doesnt sound very good. It sounds quite grim, actually. Is Iran actually seeking Nuclear weapons, in order to unleash the 'chaos' necessary to bring on the imam Mahdi, as its eschatologically obsessed leader Ahmadinejad has said? Its veyr believable. Iran is a country that looks like its prepping for a massive war.

The rest of the verse essentially explains the purpose of the scenario: "Birth pangs". The beginning of something new. And all beginnings are difficult (chaos and void)

Gemara Yuma 10: In the future, Roma (USA) will fall in the hands of Persia

The Persians built the second Holy Temple (King Darius of Persia, z'l) and the Romans destroyed it. Is it not justice that the Romans fall in the hands of the Persians?

Originally posted by Daedal
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

If the Palestinian bid for statehood does go through,this will fall right in line with what the Papacy in Rome wants and has been fighting for for centuries.

Whats the Pope want? I'm not catholic so i don't keep up with the medievel chuch.

reply to post by dontreally


It seems to me like you're trying to ascribe some sort of deeper/mystical meaning to silly people fighting over pointless things like religion and whose 'God' gave them which plot of land.

Relgion combined with petty nationalism has always, and continues to ruin this world in which we live.

It seems to me like you're trying to ascribe some sort of deeper/mystical meaning to silly people fighting over pointless things like religion and whose 'God' gave them which plot of land

reply to post by lifeissacred


Well, there is a deeper esoteric side to things. The west is much more secretive and subtle about it then the East is.

The elites are Gnostic.

Gnosticism is the core philosophy of Christianity. The pneumatics are the "elite".

Said differently, the elite are a bunch of diffierent Noble families from Europe and elsewhere, who are perpetually in power. They 'intermarry' amongst themselves, to both preserve temporal power in a small clique (and the clique is very old, so nobody new gets that on the inside) and also because their blood carries a special power.

The spiritual dimension - consciousness - is a subtle but equally real dimension of existence. It 'precedes' everything which occurs within this world of matter.

The 'demonic' is anything which goes against the dictates of conscience. Conscience - what one KNOWS to be true - must be united with action. The only thing which prevents that ability is hylic emotions, which are 'demons'. These demons are created by going against conscience - which is essentially to be "Conscious". The demon isnt merely a 'entity', but its a force. Its a realm of existence. Its the delusion of what IS. Its pure fantasy.

The first human beings to figure out how to meddle with spiritual reality were these elite which we now regard as Nobility. They created these demonic realms - by deliberately opposing the conscience - which they interpreted as an evil command by a deluded angel designed to keep man from becoming the 'god that he naturally was'...This whole idea is contained in the Bible. The snake, Tower of Babel, etc.

These elite are spiritually identified with the force of the demonic. This is why they are able to transmorph and appear as 'reptilian'. The archetype - demon is so metaphysically tied with the being and personality of the person, that its able to project its astral appearance - a reptile - over the physical body, by means of its spiritual encoding within the blood. Basically. The archetype exists in a parallel realm to this world. Its "Higher" ie; subtle, and so is able to manipulate the fabric of this physical reality and project into its phantasmagoric essence...

Its THESE elites, these dark and evil geniuses, who oppose Judaism. Judaism seeks to mend creation by "casting the goat out into the wilderness" ie; rejection of the lower emotions, which rectifies spiritual reality - the unconscious realm -and so destroys the demonic realms which these elite are archetypally identified with.

Its pure instinct to act as they do.

You have to be a dimwit to hear what i just explained, and then think the Egyptian (a society which worshipped the demonic ie; counter intuitive) Babylonian, Hellenistic, Roman, Byzantium, Muslim, Catholic, Cossak, Nazi, Communist persecutions of the Jewish people and demonization of their religion to be a case of "Chance". No! Everything that happens in this world is a projection of a metaphysical doctrine.

The Jew in Gnostic theology symbolizes whats today called the "Ego". That idealistic self. The ego percieves the world as good and evil. It moralizes/.

In Christianity, Jesus Christ is the Logos incarnate from the Pleroma. He is the universal self - the adam kadmon of kabbalah or 'anthropos' in gnosticism (Krishna is also a symbol for this)...This higher self doesnt make a distinction between good or bad, because he sees the "god" in everything. Both his good and bad manifestations.

Thus, the philosophy is projected into hman society. The ego is coldly rejected by the self to "wander" - hence the epithet, the wandering Jew. The Jews wander across Europe, the Middle east and North Africa. Beaten, abused, killed, locked in ghetto cities and forced to endure the greatest of humiliations. What do you think the Arch of titus represents?? The SUBJUGATION of the demiurge - and his physical worshippers, the Jews.

And to explain WHY they are following Jewish predictions?

To both mock the Jews and to prove the superiority of their religion and their God.

The victor takes all, essentially, and they appear to be creating the scenario for this to come about....



Is it psychotically arrogant on their part?? Damn right.

But i guess thats how bold their God is.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
It certainly seems like Israel has come to its final end. When the UN grants the Palestine statehood (and it will), it is going to split Israel in half and the jews will have their backs to the sea. The sun is setting on Israel. The U.S. may try to use its veto but there is more than one nation involved in the UN and the palestinians may recieve aid in the UN security council from other members in the region that are sympathetic to their plight.

www.theglobeandmail.com... 2171102/

edit on 21-9-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

What kind of news are you getting there in Arkansas? We are hearing something completely different in FL. No Palestinian State - even Obama is backtracking supporting that - and it appears the Palestinians will ask Israelis to stop building settlements which they won't - and so not a thing has changed. It doesn't seem like it has changed. Seems like it has stayed the same.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Daedal
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

If the Palestinian bid for statehood does go through,this will fall right in line with what the Papacy in Rome wants and has been fighting for for centuries.

Whats the Pope want? I'm not catholic so i don't keep up with the medievel chuch.

peace.


but we can mobilize in a heartbeat, 1billion of us.



swarm the mid-east like a tidal wave of light. cleanse the area of non-believers.

send a powerful message.

ya think?

Originally posted by dontreally
And to explain WHY they are following Jewish predictions?

To both mock the Jews and to prove the superiority of their religion and their God.

The victor takes all, essentially, and they appear to be creating the scenario for this to come about....



Is it psychotically arrogant on their part?? Damn right.

But i guess thats how bold their God is.

There is a relatively small number of conservative warmongers who just will not let the old wounds and ways go and they are on both sides and when people fight and die and mothers cry they laugh and make money on burying the dead.

There are Jews and Muslims, Israeli and Palestinian alike sick of being used by people who are perpetuating the old stereotypes. They want peace and they are willing to compromise to do it.

reply to post by dontreally

Said differently, the elite are a bunch of diffierent Noble families from Europe and elsewhere, who are perpetually in power. They 'intermarry' amongst themselves, to both preserve temporal power in a small clique (and the clique is very old, so nobody new gets that on the inside) and also because their blood carries a special power.

This is what Anunnaki means...royal blood in some translations anyway.

reply to post by newcovenant


THe vote hasnt happened yet.

Depending on the result, it wont be good for Israel.

Probably riots, or a 3rd intifada, as some have thought.

If PA doesnt get what they wanted, they would threaten to dissolve the PA and return to the original apparatus of the PLO. They would also call back a million or so refugees living in Arab countries (without citiznship of course; to keep them saddled to the israel issue) to the west bank - which would in turn cause alot of mayhem.

Where would these people LIVE? maybe the houses of the 600,000 Jews living in the west bank??? Imagine they try to take those houses. It'll be pandemonium. They would force Israels hand and Israel would suffer for it.

On the other hand, if Palestine gets what its seeking (which they probably wont) Israel will be harassed on an international stage.

Are you stupid?

Are you?

The end of "Israel" probably wont occur through capitulation and emigratration, but rather, "throw the Jews into the sea" as Arab leaders, like Abdel Nasser and the PM of Jordan at the time -1948 war - said.

So you're basing the execution of your entire opinion on weighted quotes from defeated leaders at the very end of a proxy (western-backed) war? Do you need me to link all of the heinous criminal diatribes from Israeli leaders about Palestinians, Lebanese, or other inferior countries?

This cannot be anything other then another holocaust.

Only one option? What a narrow disposition. A bit extreme Captain Hyperbole.

The westbank - where 600,000 Jews CURRENTLY LIVE - would be displaced. What happens to them?

What about the hundred of thousand Palestinians who who uprooted first so they could illegally settle there in the first place? Your biased is the deadly combination of ignorance and arrogance. True story.

And what happens to the remander of Israel? the Negev? Undoubtedly, Palestinian would look to annex the negev. Leaving Israel nothing but their LOW-LYING economic heartland. Sitting neatly by for Arab terrorist to shoot missiles at it...

I know what we can do, just kill all the Arabs so Israel can spread it's wings. (I can sense you would love this to be a viable option).

Israel, in natural terms, - CANNOT SURVIVE if Palestine were rewarded a state in the westbank.

Always remember, Palestinians were promised that land and statehood first, then you know, the Zionist began using Terrorism against British troops... But I guess you ignore that part of history.

[quoteIts that simple.

It is.

AAC

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation

So you're basing the execution of your entire opinion on weighted quotes from defeated leaders at the very end of a proxy (western-backed) war

HUH? WHY did the Arabs reject a state in 1948?

For the same reasons why they wanted to throw the Jews into the Sea.

Jerusalem, and all Israel, in their minds, is Dar Al Islam. A sovereign Jewish state amidst an Arab/Muslim federation of nations is just simply unacceptable.

Palestine is merely a tool to affect that end.

Heres another quote you can digest.

Former PLO executive committee member Zuheir Mohsen

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

Only one option? What a narrow disposition. A bit extreme Captain Hyperbole.

And you say that sarcastically because youre ignorant.

Again. Learn the history. And if you want a deeper insight, like i have, read up on some metaphysics. It provides the basic 'context' for why the Jews are being repeatedly screwed again and again.

What about the hundred of thousand Palestinians who who uprooted first so they could illegally settle there in the first place? Your biased is the deadly combination of ignorance and arrogance. True story.

Heres a true story.

Before the illegal occupation of whats today called the "westbank" in Judea and Samaria, Jews made up around 30% of Judea and Samaria inhabitants, and have been the majority population in Jerusalem - their holy city - for centuries.

Only times the Jews didnt live in Palestine/Judea/Samaria were during the crusades and Jordans occupation between '48 and '67.

A larg number of Westbank Jews are descendants of Jews who were kicked out of the 'westrbank'.

I know what we can do, just kill all the Arabs so Israel can spread it's wings. (I can sense you would love this to be a viable option).

No, id like Arabs to go to the state created for them in Eastern Palestine, called Jordan. Thats their state.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Why on Earth would you think Palestinian Statehood would spell the "end" of Israel? It would mean NO such thing. It would mean two countries working side by side to disinfranchise Hamas. It will be a much safer world when it happens but rest assurred it will NOT happen this year. Perhaps next year.

There are other strategic issues involved here that the media and even most people here fail to mention or aren't aware of. The most critical of them is water. In the U.S., water is plentiful in MOST areas and paying for it at all is an annoyance at times. As I've come to learn, over in the Middle East, water is national security and life or death. It's worth going to war over.

West Bank Water Resources

Israel will fight if the Arabs were to unilaterally declare a state the way Israel itself did when they formed and followed through on this 'No Jews in Palestinian State' idea. I'm not sure there is a way out at this point without a fight at best or full war if things get out of hand after tomorrow. Declaring statehood isn't it though. Not like this. Down that path lay nothing but millions of dead on both sides...and no one feeling all that much like a winner when the whole thing ends.