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The Electoral College: For the People, by the People?

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posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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As many of you know, or, by god, I hope you know (You're an adult now, dammit!), most of our elections end up the same way, the popular vote is counted, and the electoral college's (ec for now, for short) votes are tallied, and the candidate with the highest EC votes *usually wins.

Now, you SHOULD be asking, why the hell does the EC matter, why do we even HAVE an EC, or Does this in fact change our election process from "By the People, for the People" to "By the elite and wealthy, for the elite and wealthy"? the answers, respectfully are: No one knows, no one really knows, and yes/probably.

I consulted my father one day about this; and with the age old question; Does my vote really matter? Should I register to vote with the hope that my vote and others' will sway the election process? Does the EC completely rule out popular vote?(eg; bush v. gore[aka: Excelsior!])

He's very knowledgeable about political science, my father, and said to me;

We aren't a true democracy. We are a republic. Instead of just "voting in a president with total votes", we register either democrat, republican, or independent, and that number goes to our area's elector (local whom is belonged to the EC), who then in turn uses that information to vote. They don't *HAVE to vote in favor of their precinct, or area, but usually they do.
The popular vote, no matter how many times its been pushed in our heads as important, is falling by the wayside, only because not enough people vote. If more people voted, the public outcry for where we want our elector to vote would be louder, and harder to ignore.

So what do we do?

Do we persuade more people to vote, or register as either republican or democrat?(seeing how independent leaves the elector making the decision for you)

Do we demand a true democracy, so We The People can once again truly elect who we want?

Or do we have to look deeper into this situation to really understand how popular votes relate with electoral votes?
So what are everyone's thoughts on this?
Are the citizens of the US letting us all down by not enough people voting?

Is the Electoral College put in place to reserve the fabled 'birth right' for presidency?

Is the EC a background game so our "by the people" doesn't turn into "by the anyone"?





edit:Im not trolling, i have a minor emergency i must attend to, and will be AWOL for about an hour. but Please, I would love to hear your thoughts.

I will reply to your questions when I have returned..
edit on 21-9-2011 by Iconic because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 05:31 PM
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you're only 200 years late with this one. look at the first few elections and compare the total votes cast compared to the population of the general public

in todays world, it is much more "for the people, by the people" than when the founding fathers were getting elected

heck, even women can vote

edit on 21-9-2011 by syrinx high priest because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Iconic
 


Last election I wanted to vote for Ron Paul but he was not listed ....I was NOT happy. I called my congressman and told him I thought that was a crock of ....well...you know. I have come to the conclusion that no matter who I vote for...they will in the end get in whomever they want in and I have no say so what so ever. I just feel powerless.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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We are not a democracy. We are a Representative Republic.

This is the best way!



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by Iconic
Are the citizens of the US letting us all down by not enough people voting?


Actually I think too many people are voting but, hey, that is just me. We allow any odd person to cast a ballot and have an equal say, what this permits is for the masses to form mob rule hence the reason for an Electoral College. Okay let’s say there is this guy named James Seymour, he is running for President and he has the support of the people but we are in a national crisis and his platform would explicitly violate the laws of our country and chaos disorder, possibly even treasonous activity which will harm the minority. Okay the people vote for him 51% to 49% so under a system without EC he would win and the minority would be subjected to God knows what, but with the EC they understand he is a radical so they swing their votes to the other candidate. Obviously the people are mad but this protects the minority from the majority.

I am not saying anything like that would happen but the proper checks and balances are in place to make sure no one completely insane is elected.


Is the Electoral College put in place to reserve the fabled 'birth right' for presidency?


There is no ‘birth right’ for the Presidency and they would have no role in it even if such a thing did exist. The media plays a powerful enough role controlling the public perception without any need for the EC to step in.


Is the EC a background game so our "by the people" doesn't turn into "by the anyone"?


Okay here is a short little history lesson. The President was elected solely by the Electoral College prior to 1824 (with some exceptions), after 1824 it was in all states except South Carolina and Delaware. People voted, yes, but it was only more or less to gauge public opinion. The voting for President was more like how the political party primary functioned prior to the rule changes in the 1970s. Even in 1824 the rules for who can/cannot vote were restricted to white male property owners. This was not changed until 1850 then in 1855 states began implementing literacy tests for voting, most states had it by 1890. By 1870 freed black former slaves could vote. To fight this in 1889 Florida implemented the first poll tax and other states followed. 1920 women could vote and in 1924 American Indians could vote. By 1965 everyone could vote and literacy tests were abolished. In 1966 the poll tax was abolished. And in 1971 the age for voting was set at 18.

Source

Overall I deeply believe in the Electoral College as a preferable system to parliamentary, direct, or popular democracy. It continues with our Republican system without falling into the hands of democracy as our founders feared. Republicanism = American founding, Democracy = Reign of Terror, Leap Forward.

“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” – John Adams

“It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity.” – Alexander Hamilton


edit on 9/21/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by Iconic
 


Whoa...Stop.. You guys have to register your party affiliation to vote?

I hope I have misunderstood, because if not, that is scary...

reply to post by Carseller4
 


This is something that has always perplexed me.. A democracy and a republic can be one and the same. Likewise, a republic doesn't always have to be a democracy and a democracy doesn't have to be republican in form.

I am at a loss why the Americans think the two terms are mutually exclusive, they are not!

A Democracy is more of a description of what the citizens can expect, such as equality before the law, equal access to voting rights etc.

A Republic is simply a government having a head of state who is not a monarch. Anything else is fluff.

So when I hear Americans say "We're not a Democracy, We're a Republic", it seems to me that you're not truly aware of what the terms mean.

One can have a republic with democratic principles (France, the US, Germany - three different types of republic that are democratic) and one can have a Republic that is authoritarian (China, North Korea, Zimbabwe).

Merely being a Republic does not prohibit being a Democracy.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 06:50 PM
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The Electoral College: For the ELITES, by the ELITES.
And you thought you had a choice.
Laws are made for the ELITES to prosper, not for you , you FOOL. It set up that way. SO you cannot get ahead in life, you always stuck in some kind of rut. House payments, Taxes of all kinds, BILLS AND MORE BILLS. You think if they raise the taxes on the rich that YOU, the poor soul american will get any benefits? Not likely. Whenever the rich get a bill, that same bill is attached to the products we the POOR , buy. SO, did it work by the way? NO, we always flip the bill and always have, and that is the pure FACT in life, so deal with it , or move out, because it is never going to change , it will only get worse in the FASISM WORLD we live in. GREED,GREED,GREED and more GREED. The pig, will never be FULL, it will always eat. Pig, Persons in Greed.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by Iconic
 


Where do I even begin...

If we were to directly elect the president it would abolish the need for the rural vote, the only votes that mattered would be the ones in the most populous areas.

Maine and Nebraska split their EC votes to the most popular of the congressional districts. Aside from the danger of gerrymandering, I believe this is the most accurate way to distribute electoral votes. Keep in mind that only about 50-60% of the population votes every four years, that means that about a third of the population is electing the president, which isn't very democratic at all.

Minnesota has the highest voter turnout in the country, regularly with about 75% of the registered population voting while D.C. has the lowest at around 36%.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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I accept the fact that I was misunderstanding the situation,

but I was raising the fact that simply, it is what it is, but we as citizens are lied to about it. We all know the EC exists, and how it operates, but I was told REPEATEDLY that my vote counts, when in fact it doesn't count for f* all.

There's the rub. The simple fact that it is not a democracy, that we do not popular vote, etc. I was expecting ats'ers to get my reasoning...



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by links234
 


I'm glad someone else can see how the EC buffers and interfaces the states' wills.
Starred.

Corruption in leadership is a problem regardless of the form of government.
The best fix for this is to limit the scope and power of government.

Local governments effect our lives the most and have the least power. How does that make any sense?

Limit the federal government. Reasonably empower local government. Taxes should be payed to local government and work its way upward as necessary, just like voting.

When you pay for something with your hard-earned money, you are voting. Voting happens daily by our consumption of payed-for items.

IT IS OUR RIGHT TO VOTE WITH OUR MONEY. WITHHOLD TAXES FROM THE FEDS IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE LIMITED. SEND YOUR MONEY TO YOUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT IF YOU UNDERSTAND THAT LAW (AND INFRASTRUCTURE) IS NECESSARY/GOOD FOR A CIVILIZED CULTURE.

Conversely, but more appropriately, give the Fed back all of it's fake money and use local currency.

But who of us has the courage to do this?

I tend to keep my head down and out of trouble. Ultimately, I could imagine a much worse world than we live in now.
edit on 9/22/2011 by Dasher because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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There is no freedom of election. The entire thing is a big joke. The ones running the show throw a couple puppets out onto stage and watch as the sheeple send in their vote. Either way, a sh-tty president comes into play and we are left powerless. It's always been like this..there's information that's even kept from presidents. So no matter what they do, the people are still left with their thumbs up their ass wondering what's happening in the country



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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The American people have never picked their President.


Hence why all the Federal Judges throw out the "Birther" cases saying the plaintiff's don't have standing.

The people don't pick the President. Never have, never will.

We're a Republic made up of Royal Families who joust between themselves for control.




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