Psychologists explain why some people can't accept alternate conspiracy theories concerning 9/11.

Originally posted by 000063

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by Mcupobob
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Again with the molten metal.

...

There was no molten steel, melted aluminum yes but not molted steel.

Ok. Others have reported differently. Those who were there on the scene.

From: thermalimages.nfshost.com...

Red Hot Debris. The removal of debris from the collapsed areas requires the safe lifting and maneuvering of very heavy steel beams, often twisted and tangled from the force of the collapse. Some beams pulled from the wreckage are still red hot more than 7 weeks after the attack, and it is suspected that temperatures beneath the debris pile are well in excess of 1,000°F.

So who do You believe? If that was the ONLY questionable thing on 9/11, I'd believe the OS. But if it was a conspiracy (which evidence strongly supports), I would expect "experts" talking molten aluminum (600ish deg) to downplay or obfuscate the actual temps found in the rubble.

Too bad the melting point of steel is around of 2,500 F.

If the beams were still red-hot, that means they were still shaped like, y'know, beams, not melted into puddles. It's like saying ice is past its melting point, but is still ice.

I don't know what date the 1000 deg was measured, or if it was measured. They suspect the temp to be WELL OVER 1000. So... That could include 2500. AND, just because They pulled unmelted beam pieces out that were red hot, does NOT follow that all metal observed was red hot pieces and nothing molten.

Wow these 911 threads are really a dead end.Look its simple, if you believe the official story you are a coward and probably have a lower than average IQ. The evidence is so plain as to what really happened. THREE CONTROLLED DEMOLITIONS, FACT.

reply to post by 000063

Watch this whole video



There's even an audio segment in it somewhere re: twin towers.

Repetition !

Reichstag fire
en.wikipedia.org...

911 and the Reichstag Fire: have we seen this show before?
www.911-strike.com...


Sound's Awfully Familiar at 1:35 to Especially at! 2;42 ( Telephone privacy rights ! ) to 3:10
The Rise Of Evil - Reichstag Fire


The Rise of The Nazi Party - The Reichstag Fire
belfairs10histnazi1.wordpress.com...

The Enabling Act
en.wikipedia.org...

Bush's 'Patriot Act' Vs
Hitler's 'Enabling Act'
What's The Difference?
By John Carman
10-5-4
www.rense.com...


Patriot Act Extension: Congress Faces Midnight Deadline
y JIM ABRAMS 05/26/11 11:20 PM ET
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Well Ron Pauls Son Rand was Against it!!

Congress bumped up against the deadline mainly because of the stubborn resistance from a single senator, Republican freshman Rand Paul of Kentucky , who saw the terrorist-hunting powers as an abuse of privacy rights. Paul held up the final vote for several days while he demanded a chance to change the bill to diminish the government's ability to monitor individual actions. The bill passed the Senate 72-23.

The Uncanny familiar ?
The Patriot Act
en.wikipedia.org...

The act, a response to the terrorist attacks of September 11th, dramatically reduced restrictions on law enforcement agencies' ability to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial, and other records; eased restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States; expanded the Secretary of the Treasury’s authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities; and broadened the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting immigrants suspected of terrorism-related acts. The act also expanded the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA PATRIOT Act’s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.

Pearl harbor
Can anyone Explained to ATS Why the Jap invasion Warnings were Ignored and leaving the Old Warship's in the Harbor
and the Newer Aircraft Carriers were out a way distance on A Sunday ! Out to Sea ! ahh Ocean ! LOL

PEARL HARBOR
??

MOTHER OF ALL CONSPIRACIES _ Pearl Harbor
whatreallyhappened.com...

My 2 cents

Ahh the Past The Past !

reply to post by 000063


The parts of the beams that were cut by the thermite were molten yes, they were precise diagonal cuts. The entire beams were not reduced to lava, we didn't say that. However given the amount of explosives used there was a substancial amount of molten metal under the rubble when all was said and done, and there most likely continued to be unexploded thermite that was detonated in the aftermath by all of the other fiery materials that collided with one another when all of the debris fell to the ground into a massive pile. We don't know the extent of how much of the beams were liquified within split seconds, however if you research thermite it can be painted on so theres a good chance a significant amount was reduced to molten metal. Again i encourage you to review this scientific article regarding aluminothermics. 911research.wtc7.net...

edit: Also the pressure of all that mass coming down at once into a pile like that creates more heat in itself, heat and pressure go hand-in-hand, which would explain why alot of the heat was directed towards the bottom of the debris pile after the explosions and collapse, literally millions of tons of fiery building materials coming down at once into a small area can create an uncanny amount of heat underneath all of that rubble.

thanks, gonna check it out when i get back


hugs

reply to post by _BoneZ_


I live here in NYC and can often see the skyline. Ever since that day I feel as if I have lost something very dear to me and every time I see the city I feel as if it's not the city. that it will never be the city again and in the same second i felt as if the country and also the world would never be the same safe place ever again! I feel as if we have all been betrayed and those of us in denial are betraying not only ourselves but our families and each other.
I was one of those people that was always proud to be an American, always thought we were the good guys, thought we were free, we had democracy and patriotism and after i finally came to terms with the truth that our government was responsable on some level, all of these ideals were lost to me and i became very alone, isolated, distrustful and vulnerable. Then when I tryed to spread the truth to friends and family where 98% of them are in total denial, I was laughed at, ostracized, called crazy, doomsayer and many other names. 911 was what led me into the online conspiracy world where alot of times there are alot of far fetched and outlandish conspiracies but because of how i've been treated I seriously look at every one of them with the possibility that they can be true and sometimes even the outlandish ones seem to have some truth to them. When we dismiss something without even considering whether it's possible then we are as brainwashed as those that we call sheeple! Though it's always important to be diligent and the more outlandish a theory sounds the more that we need to research into it. It's not easy knowing the truth and if your an analytical type of personality then it becomes that much harder to dismiss or ignore the discrepancies. There are many days where I feel totally alone and disconnected from humanity, Like the movie with John Travolta "The boy in the Bubble" Not able to touch another and cause of this I wish most of the time that I was as nieve as everyone else in the world. When I feel this way I will sometimes avoid the net and sometimes I will stay away for a week but then it starts like a quest in my mind desiring to know what is happening in the world. Wanting to know what will happen next? Will we make it through another year before the bottom drops out? Will people ever figure out the truth? And always questions nagging my conscience to search for the answers or even just a clue to what's coming!

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
As we've always said, it comes down to denial, ignorance, and/or even trauma.

I dont deny the government is capable of pulling false flag operations. They have proven themselves quite capable.

What i am denying however is THIS false flag.

reply to post by _BoneZ_

Hmm.. I suffer from trauma? Very interesting.

As someone who has studied a mess of psychology, I personally think people who hang onto fact-less conspiracies are obsessive compulsive. It is healthy to question the authorities and establishment, but it is unhealthy to obsess over fact-less theories.

This thread is based upon the notion "Since you do not see things my why, you are somehow psychologically impaired". Psychologists would counter argue with, "Obsessing over any particular subject is a sign of post traumatic stress disorder and obsessive compulsive drives.".

9/11 theorists created this massive conspiracy, for they fear what the event actually symbolizes. Lack of security and control in a free and open society lead to a terrorist attack. What the hell do you folks think triggered the fall of the Roman Empire? Once 9/11 conspiracy theorists start waking up, we can make some real changes to our overall security.

Originally posted by EleNoN
Wow these 911 threads are really a dead end.Look its simple, if you believe the official story you are a coward and probably have a lower than average IQ. The evidence is so plain as to what really happened. THREE CONTROLLED DEMOLITIONS, FACT.

And this is why truthers are not only seen as ignorant but also desperate. You just can't help but come across as evangelistic. Any point that might warrant further investigation (though will turn out to be nothing) is dismissed because of tools such as yourself.

Fact!

reply to post by _BoneZ_


S&F

Believing everything your government tells you is a serious mental health issue requiring psychiatric help. The deniers i have noticed become almost physically sick when presented with proof of conspiracy, as if brain washed and programmed. It really is disturbing. Glad i am not in crazed denier category

Maybe they are nit lunatics or psychopaths but they enable the mass murders behind this inside job, well they have been indoctrinated and conditioned to protect and love their oppressors like Jessica Smart in to this way of thinking. Certain people lack the components to be immune to the programming/brainwashing. I feel truly sad for them. Some cant be helped.

There are advantages of growing up in the East Bloc.
Actually, it would be difficult for me to believe that government has good intentions.
And that they are saying the truth.
Well sometimes they are.

Let me quote eminent American psychotherapist Arthur Janov, author of 'The Primal Scream:"

"Power cannot be abused.
Power is an abuse itself."

This artist was holding a performance on 911 in Chicago:

youtu.be...

Twenty year before she was singing of the airplanes.

"They're American planes..."

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by _BoneZ_

 

S&F

Believing everything your government tells you is a serious mental health issue requiring psychiatric help. The deniers i have noticed become almost physically sick when presented with proof of conspiracy, as if brain washed and programmed. It really is disturbing. Glad i am not in crazed denier category

I get the feeling you haven't been paying attention to these forums very much at all. I can distinctly remember almost every single "denier" stating that the government failed on 9/11 and possibly assisted the terrorists either through negligence or direct financial aide.

"Physically sick." That's a good one.

This video had been posted on 911blogger for a while. I'll just say that the edits almost suggest their message from some of the psychologists were altered to fit their agenda and a shameless plug at the end from some political guy who isn't a psychologist.. What is it with this 911 truth movement, their sinking to the perps level now.. These groups have been infiltrated to try and make it all look bad.

Originally posted by ziggyproductions05

That I cannot answer, obviously. But the fact the planes were hijacked and there was not a defensive attack by the US seems odd. Passengers and flight attendants called friends, family, and authorities while hijacked so the situation was known.

Yes, but at the time, what was the SOP for a hijacking? It was "obey the hijackers demands." Up until then, hijackings were to fly the plane somewhere and hold for ransom, or to release political allies, or "fly me to Cuba!" It has not happened where hijackers taken a plane and then rammed it into a building. Up until the first impact, everyone thought it was a "routine" hijacking, which was going to end up with either a storming of the aircraft at an airport or release of the passengers. No one expected them to fly the plane into a building. Hence, how the planes managed to "evade" our "defenses", even though there were no such actual defenses. 14 planes ready for CAP? Remember this was not the Cold War with hundreds of interceptors sitting in their protected bunkers, ready to fly fully loaded against any aerial enemy attack. This was all post Cold War. No five minute alerts, no strings of radar to track soviet bomber formations from overseas. Fighters being used for intercept were more worried about a hijacked aircraft coming in from overseas than inside our own airspace. Just to show you an example of bad things happening in supposed "safe" areas, recall how many instances of armed shooters opening fire inside a police station HQ. Again, it has happened, even though you know, that going into a police station armed with a gun, you are gonna be in a heap of trouble. Well, some have succeeded.

How is that claptrap? The questions you ask I cannot answer. I still have questions and so do many, many people. Its not like there are just conspiracy theorists questioning the official story. Some of the leaseholders actions that day and wording about 'pulling' the building, a known demo term, raise suspicions.

My questions are already answered within the video itself.
Who was Larry talking to? The fire commander.
Who made the "decision" to do anything? The NYFD
Since when does the NYFD do demolition work or decides to "blow up" a building? Umm to my knowledge, never.

You see? its all in there, you just have to pay attention. That is the biggest issue I see with the truth movement. They just dont pay attention to the details. Like when they claim, Larry said "pull it". he did no such thing. The fire dept made the decision to pull. What did they pull? The firefighting operations around WTC7 and the pile, because there was serious danger of collapse from WTC7. Firefighters also recall they were "PULLED" from WTC7. Now, that does not mean they had C4 shoved down their pants and blown up, but they were removed from WTC7. Many firefighters say the same thing, they were "pulled" from WTC7. Which goes back to Larry and the fire commander. Who or what else would they be talking about? Why discuss to blow up a building to "save lives" and then have the fire commander give the order to blow up a building? that is a load of BS!

**Whats up with the 'gees'?

Its from years and years of repeating the facts, and having people ignore them for imagination and lies. hence my exasperation at having to repost the facts, only to have them ignored.

Here is the greatest conundrum of these theories...
Our memory of events becomes faulty after five years. Since a counter argument didn't occur immediately after 9/11, any new evidence brought to light will be based upon faulty information. As a result of waiting way-way too long, the potential for an accurate testimony has been diminished. If the 9/11 theorists began an investigation on day one, they would have had a better understanding of events. Regardless about what types of conspiratorial twists they now conjure, the 9/11 conspiracy theorists have already lost.

Second, George Bush's administration seems to be at the center of these conspiracies; however, not a single theory can prove beyond a doubt that they were involved. You cannot blame someone for a crime, and then ask them to provide you the proof. If you walked into a court room with a theory, based upon subjective analysis, the judge will dismiss the lawsuit within five seconds. Unless these conspiracy theories can show definitive proof, they will never-ever be worth the ground they are planted upon.

Questioning authority is a healthy step; therefore, I will always encourage everyone to keep looking. Once people start finding faults in theories, only an obsessive compulsive person will keep pushing. Popular Mechanics did an excellent job in debunking the 9/11 theories.

Link: Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report

9/11 Conspiracy theorists have already lost, and there is nothing they can do to change that reality.

Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by _BoneZ_

 

This thread is based upon the notion "Since you do not see things my why, you are somehow psychologically impaired". Psychologists would counter argue with, "Obsessing over any particular subject is a sign of post traumatic stress disorder and obsessive compulsive drives.".

edit on 9/22/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)

You are attempting to shoot the messenger, who has provided the link to a video from a group of.... amazingly, psychologists! I like the use of keywords, 'Obsessing' instead of discussion for instance, Subjective remarks like, "this thread is based upon" Hmmm, all very presumptous for a working psychologist, never mind a 'would be' one. BTW, I found McQueen's method very impressive, and no matter what anyone can say, is very evidential and uses the scientific method as is supposed to. In other words, looking FOR a consistent truth in the evidence, not MAKING a truth out of the evidence.

Originally posted by EleNoN
Wow these 911 threads are really a dead end.Look its simple, if you believe the conspiracy theory you are a coward and probably have a lower than average IQ. The evidence is so plain as to what really happened. THREE PLANES CRASHED INTO THREE BUILDINGS, FACT.

Fixed it for you.

by alternate conspiracy thoeries do you mean missiles and holograms and CD, or do you mean something like the CIA involvement that was discussed here recently (richard clarke thread) ?

there is a HUGE difference