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Can you prove evolution wrong?*

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posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by Varemia
 


Your clearly confusing macroevolution with reality. There has never been any proof leading to it. Your also confusing microevolution with science fiction.

It works like this....

Every species has a certain amount of variance in most perimiters. For example blue eyes, green eyes, and brown eyes, there are even black eyes out there. There are also combinations of these intermixed. Some people are 6' tall some are 4' tall and some are 7' tall. When someones genetics pushes them to be 8' feet tall, its outside the acceptable order, and is considered to be a defect. Those die, and quickly.

Your also confusing the commonality of life with someone being an ancestor.
Dogs have two eyes, and two ears and a nose, and teeth, and a mouth, and they drink water and eat food and even have four limbs, just like humans. Does it mean we are related? I don't think so.
From the DNA perspective there are more things that match as well but there is still a difference of millions of genes. It's impossible to think that breeding is allowed with other species while we aren't able to reproduce with primates. I'm sorry dude but a monkey did not give birth to a human. I don't know any other way to sum it up.

If you think there were changes that happend over years, there is no proof of relation and as far as I'm concearned it would take trillions of years to happen within acceptable limits. Either way, you have to ask yourself, at what point was a human allowed to mate with a primate, and at what point were they no longer able to do so, and why did some fork, and some didn't. After all we still have primates.

When you bring up fossils of similliar life, as far as we know it could be another life from a distant galaxy. I have no way to prove it, and you have no way to disprove it. I tend to believe that you would have to be a little ignorant to think there is no other life out there that might even visit us. If its hard to comprehend, it just shows that you think you know everything there is to know because humans are the smartest thing that ever lived. I have news for you, your wrong

Ever heard of a savant? It basically proves that our brains are capable of so much more. There is simply no reason a Savant could have these abilitys if they werent possible. Our lives were programmed to sheep for god, and bottlenecking our abilitys was just one of many things he did to us. If you ever read the bible you would know that most of the book is about how he punished man. He always explains what the punishment will be but never is it explained how its executed. These punishments were also noted they would be handed down to our offspring as well. Lloyd Pye believes in intervention, what he doesn't believe in is god. What he never realized is that his findings actually match the bible. Gross defects in our DNA proves tampering, when we are just stumbling on to this.

And please don't tell me DNA changes on its own, I laugh so hard I start to cry. Of course there are parts of DNA that are allowd to and it goes back to acceptable perimeters. This does not include growing a brain, losing a tail, and other sorts that compare us to primates. You have to use some common sense to know there is only one way things can evolve. There has to be a creator, or creation of sorts. Your agreeing a tornado could assemble a jet plane, then have the nerve to treat me like I'm an idiot. I'm sorry but just because your fantasy is a little hard to swallow doesn't mean you should belittle others.

We aren't to blame for believing what you do, its your fault.and you need to own up to it. Evolution simply doesn't work. Darwin was found to be a fraud and everything I do reasearch on evolution I have to weed though all the people that have been busted for fraud in it. To have to question such things is an obvious statement that we aren't from here. Come to think of it the bible says that too in hebrews. Earth is not our home. I wonder what that means? Your never going to be able to dismiss the largest selling book on the planet, I'm sorry but your work is cut out for you. There is a good reason Darwin is not taught in most schools, because it's been proven wrong. The only reason some schools banned religion was because of it not agreeing with all religions.




posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


Now there's your problem. How far do these parameters go? What mechanism is limiting other change? How is change being prevented from occurring?

These are questions you must answer before I can take you seriously. And if you say aliens, I'm just going to laugh at you.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by BohemianBrim
God/Satan did it.

are you serious?

--i mean, its usually only evolution or God/Satan... if there is a third option if have never heard it.


Are you serious? Never heard of Sir Francis Crick? Fred Hoyle?

www.experiment-resources.com...

As far as i know both were basically atheists who believed life didnt start here on Earth by just getting lucky.

I tend to see things how they did. I believe some evolving within species occurred, otoh, I think there was some influence and lets just say it was very intelligent.

www.physorg.com...

www.popsci.com...

edit on 24-11-2011 by Malcher because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by Varemia
 





Now there's your problem. How far do these parameters go? What mechanism is limiting other change? How is change being prevented from occurring?

These are questions you must answer before I can take you seriously. And if you say aliens, I'm just going to laugh at you.
The variances would be like I explained with someone being say 7' tall. It doesn't mean an ape can give birth to a human.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by RebelRouser
reply to post by colin42
 


you answer questions with questions a lot. besides i dont see you supporting the real evidence. show me the pictures that lead you to believe that this definitely happened. before u answer that with a question. ill give you mine. here the thing is i believed wayy before i found out about these.


Are you kidding me? You never answer any questions at all and challenge us to answer yours all the time.

I am not going to teach you something you refuse to even look at with an open mind. Or answer questions just to have you move on to a new one when you are corrected. I dont dance to your tune matey.

Again I remind you this is where you explain diversity without evolution.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by Varemia
 





Now there's your problem. How far do these parameters go? What mechanism is limiting other change? How is change being prevented from occurring?

These are questions you must answer before I can take you seriously. And if you say aliens, I'm just going to laugh at you.
The variances would be like I explained with someone being say 7' tall. It doesn't mean an ape can give birth to a human.


Varemia

Here lies this guys problem. How many times has it been explained to him Evolution does not mean an ape can give birth to a human? I'll tell you everytime he says it and it has been a lot. The same goes for every fundemental fact in evolution.

He does not want to consider whatever you present him with. Aliens did it end of.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by jimbo999
Well, that's what the science tells us. There at least is evidence to support this. What evidence do you have of a Supreme Deity doing all this instead? And I'm afraid an ancient book doesn't count as evidence.


Your evidence can easily support a creator or a non-creator. There is nothing in evolutionary theory that goes against creation, so why are evolutionists so anti-creation? It is your choice to exclude a creator from the equation, not evidence.

Choices:
1. It all started with nothing/ a sub-atomic particle/big ball of gas (take your pick) which exploded and became the universe. No intelligent creator required.
2. An entity created a particle/big ball of gas which exploded and became the universe and continue to guide the process.

My biggest problem with evolution is that old poison pill: transitional species. Why was such a big deal made about Archaeopteryx? A big deal was made about it because it was the ONLY fossil ever found which could qualify as a transitional species. It is said to be a clever hoax but I don't know enough about that to comment on it. What I've read is that the first Archaeopteryx was the fossil of a small compsognathus with feathers added.

The fossil record should be teeming with transitional species so why isn't it?

Yes, I've heard all the tired excuses:

1. All animals are "transitional species". All fine and well but we're still missing the transitional species which came between those transitional species.
2. Only the "fully formed" creatures were fossilized. There should be more transitional fossils than non-transitional, so where are they?
3. Only a small percentage of all animals were fossilized. Same response as #2.
4. There are lots of transitional species. Yes, I've heard someone say that but when I asked for evidence he/she told me to search the internet or my local library for it.

Yes I'll get a lot of bunk about how the "transitional species myth" was "debunked", but I'll post a challenge to the evolutionists: tell me where I can find a book or web-site which shows a picture/organogram showing the transitional species for at least 10 species. Shouldn't be too hard since there is no "transitional species problem", right? Obviously all the examples must be actual fossils along with pics of current animals and not "artist's impressions" as I've seen in many books. I tried hunting for this on the internet with little luck


To me the large oil-fields under the middle-east is evidence of a large creation event occuring there as it is said in the Bible. Yes, there are oil-fields all over the planet but surely those in the middle-east are big if not the biggest?

Disclaimer: I am neither a creationist nor an evolutionist. I might be considered an agnostic, but I don't like labels
. I am 100% convinced that the Bible is not the word of god, but that does not mean there is no god. Yes, this post makes me look like a creationist, but trust me, I am not. It does however seem more likely to me than abiogenesis+evolution.
edit on 24-11-2011 by Lannock because: typo



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by Lannock
 


Of course you are correct Evolution has nothing to say about how life started or the creation of the universe and anyone from either side of the debate that says different is wrong.

In my experience here there are more creationists that continue to ask evolution to prove how life started and this results in an attack on creation from frustration.

If you have already heard 'All the tired excuses' and have chosen to label them as that what point is it in offering more info for you to turn your nose up at.

I would like your opinion on how we have the diversity we see today and repeated in the fossil records?



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by Lannock
 





My biggest problem with evolution is that old poison pill: transitional species. Why was such a big deal made about Archaeopteryx? A big deal was made about it because it was the ONLY fossil ever found which could qualify as a transitional species. It is said to be a clever hoax but I don't know enough about that to comment on it. What I've read is that the first Archaeopteryx was the fossil of a small compsognathus with feathers added.

The fossil record should be teeming with transitional species so why isn't it?


We have thousands of transitional fossils, plus, DNA fully backs up common descent





1. All animals are "transitional species". All fine and well but we're still missing the transitional species which came between those transitional species.
2. Only the "fully formed" creatures were fossilized. There should be more transitional fossils than non-transitional, so where are they?
3. Only a small percentage of all animals were fossilized. Same response as #2.
4. There are lots of transitional species. Yes, I've heard someone say that but when I asked for evidence he/she told me to search the internet or my local library for it.


You don't seem to understand what a transitional fossil is...please read the above link


Here's a list so you dont' have to do your own research.




Yes I'll get a lot of bunk about how the "transitional species myth" was "debunked", but I'll post a challenge to the evolutionists: tell me where I can find a book or web-site which shows a picture/organogram showing the transitional species for at least 10 species.


I just did above


Plus, unless you're simply lazy, you could just google "giraffe, evolution", or "random animal, evolution" and get it for pretty much all of them. But again, you don't seem to understand what a transitional fossil is in the first place, so you might wanna start there before reading up on the rest





To me the large oil-fields under the middle-east is evidence of a large creation event occuring there as it is said in the Bible. Yes, there are oil-fields all over the planet but surely those in the middle-east are big if not the biggest?



Plenty of massive oil fields all over the place...and we know how those form in the first place. No "magical creation event necessary". The key ingredient in oil is plankton...and not random animals or plants by the way





It does however seem more likely to me than abiogenesis+evolution.


You can't group abiogenesis and evolution like that. The former is still being investigated and there's no concrete proven theory...while the latter (evolution) is fully backed up by objective evidence (fossil record, DNA, migratory trends, etc.) and we're actively applying the theory in modern medicine.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by colin42
 


I was being sarcastic.
I understand your not looking at it like an ape gave birth to a human. You believed it happened in stages. The problem is that we need to find many, probably hundreds of transitional species.
The other problem is that we need a lot of each. These periods could not have bottlenecked because it would cause large amounts of defects. Another problem is that each stage would also require millions of years each, and the changes would have to be subttle to avoid dying out. I go back to what I said earlier that it would take trillions of years to work.

The analogy of a tornado reconstructing an air plane from junk yard parts is not an exaggeration. While you admitt to not necessarly just not believing in aliens, I guess it depends on how much you believe it to be a possibility, in addition to how much study you have done on the subject. I understand you don't have the 30+ years like I do studying the supernatural and paranormal, and I can see how it would be without that, not seeing just how easy and how fitting this is.

In case your not up to speed on alien storys, they are in the abduction business. Thats what they do. It doesnt means however that its an answer for eveything but it does mean you need to use consideration when ever its possible. They are also know for being able to erase our memory. Isn't it odd how Adam and Eve appear out of no where and seem to have no recolection of how they got there?

Your understanding in research (just like everyone else that believes in evolution on here) has got to be the shottyiest work I have ever seen. Accepting such things without redundant elements to back it up is as lame as it gets. My research with the bible and Pye and von daniken and the bible and supernatural are different. I never accept anything unless it's redundant. For example... God being a space alien.

It wasn't enough that he visits us in a charriot (aka space ship) the fact that the bible is introduced as a supernatural read. It was the combination of many things together like how he had advanced technology, and played with DNA, and could read our thoughts and prayers (aka telepathy) which is yet another alien related element.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Lannock
 


Sorry but I just had to throw in my two cents on this not that I'm taking any sides.
Months ago, I believe on the discovery channel, they were explaining what we have been able to witness and figure out in the realm of planet creation. It's weird, very weird and still leaves all the possibilitys open. Debris turns into pressurized gasses, which forms a planet. Just recently they were able to figure out in a lab with lasers that applying targeted beams to mecury gas actaully forms a mass to become a planet.

From the best they can figure, life as we understand it, is somehow imbedded in this creation package, and a mutituide of different life is there. Like I said it's weird. IMO if this is accurate it probably comes together as an eco package where everything has its place and fits in with the package. I always joke and say there is a giant celestial squid out there that is pooping out planets and life. It shockingly sounds accurate.

Now going off on a personal direction that includeds some of my previous input on this, I think it also explains how we don't fit in on this planet. I have a rare belief that we were placed here from another planet, most likely against our will. With the idea that every thing normally being part of a planets package also explains how we don't fit here. We aren't part of this planets eco system, and in fact mother nature has been rejecting us. We aren't part of any food chain or any other chain for that matter and nothing on this planet would miss us if we disappeared.

This also questions evolution because if a species did actually evolve lets say from a primate to a human, look at the difference in diet. The available diet sources would not be there to acommodate the need. We process food to try to substituite something that we feel is missing from our intended diet. Of course the food that was meant for us isn't here, and it even says in the bible we were given a plethora of different things to eat and non of them are similliar or from our home.Evolution would not be allowed in an eco system if species do actually evolve. We basically went from a healthy targeted diet to processed unhealthy food. Some people think that this was from forced elements like greed and population but that is like saying that our eco system shouldn't be able to support us.

It always falls back on two things that seem to keep coming up in argument on here. Did we evovle or did we adapt. There is a big difference and its easy to confuse the two.Had we of evolved, our bodies would have learned to accept the existing food sources availabel. We adapted which means we are circumventing the problem. We are making processed food to try to produce something that we feel is needed and missing.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by colin42
 




I was being sarcastic.
I understand your not looking at it like an ape gave birth to a human. You believed it happened in stages. The problem is that we need to find many, probably hundreds of transitional species.
The other problem is that we need a lot of each. These periods could not have bottlenecked because it would cause large amounts of defects. Another problem is that each stage would also require millions of years each, and the changes would have to be subttle to avoid dying out. I go back to what I said earlier that it would take trillions of years to work.

Sarcastic? Well I dont believe an ape gave birth to a human in stages either. It was a common ancestor.

Again we do not need hundreds of transistional stages evolution does not work like upgrades and we do not need a lot of each as has been explained many times, you only need one.

Again you are basing your argument on your belief. It does not need millions of years and also you ignore that change is a constant. Evolution does not work by waiting for each change to take place before another happens.



The analogy of a tornado reconstructing an air plane from junk yard parts is not an exaggeration
.
I know and as you have had explained it is a false argument. Here is one for you. I have a bucket of cold water. I begin to trickle in hot water. Eventially the bucket will contain hot water. During that time I add a blue dye and trickle that in and I end up with a bucket of hot, blue water. The original cold water is still there as is the original colourless water but all you can see is hot blue water.



While you admitt to not necessarly just not believing in aliens, I guess it depends on how much you believe it to be a possibility, in addition to how much study you have done on the subject.

I have never said I dont believe in life beyond our planet or the possibility that we are and have been visited.



I understand you don't have the 30+ years like I do studying the supernatural and paranormal, and I can see how it would be without that, not seeing just how easy and how fitting this is.

How do you jump to that conclusion? I have the original paperback 'Chariot of the gods' brought by my mother many years ago and probably in excess of 30 years



In case your not up to speed on alien storys, they are in the abduction business. Thats what they do. It doesnt means however that its an answer for eveything but it does mean you need to use consideration when ever its possible. They are also know for being able to erase our memory. Isn't it odd how Adam and Eve appear out of no where and seem to have no recolection of how they got there?

I also have quite a few books on the subject of UFO's spanning those years but until real evidence is found I, unlike you have not turned the information posed into a belief system to base my world views on



Your understanding in research (just like everyone else that believes in evolution on here) has got to be the shottyiest work I have ever seen. Accepting such things without redundant elements to back it up is as lame as it gets.

I dont know how to take this but coming from you. Thanks for the compliment



My research with the bible and Pye and von daniken and the bible and supernatural are different. I never accept anything unless it's redundant. For example... God being a space alien.

My research with the bible, Pye, Von Daniken and Sitchin leads me to the understanding they have no evidence and have no more to say than the Star Wars collection that I also have in hardback. I accept nothing that I cannot verify for myself fron different sources or by practicle aplication. For example Evolution



It wasn't enough that he visits us in a charriot (aka space ship) the fact that the bible is introduced as a supernatural read. It was the combination of many things together like how he had advanced technology, and played with DNA, and could read our thoughts and prayers (aka telepathy) which is yet another alien related element.


Strangley so did the master in star wars


edit on 24-11-2011 by colin42 because: Spelling



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by colin42
 





Sarcastic? Well I dont believe an ape gave birth to a human in stages either. It was a common ancestor.

Again we do not need hundreds of transistional stages evolution does not work like upgrades and we do not need a lot of each as has been explained many times, you only need one.

Again you are basing your argument on your belief. It does not need millions of years and also you ignore that change is a constant. Evolution does not work by waiting for each change to take place before another happens.
Then why aren't we able to see it in any of the other 5 million species here on earth? I call BS on the whole thing.




I know and as you have had explained it is a false argument. Here is one for you. I have a bucket of cold water. I begin to trickle in hot water. Eventially the bucket will contain hot water. During that time I add a blue dye and trickle that in and I end up with a bucket of hot, blue water. The original cold water is still there as is the original colourless water but all you can see is hot blue water.
No it wont have hot water it will have warm water and I don't see how the spread of dye through tempureature relates to ancestory.




I have never said I dont believe in life beyond our planet or the possibility that we are and have been visited.
Then I must have confused you with someone else.



How do you jump to that conclusion? I have the original paperback 'Chariot of the gods' brought by my mother many years ago and probably in excess of 30 years
If you honestly own that movie I'm shocked you would even look at evolution.




I also have quite a few books on the subject of UFO's spanning those years but until real evidence is found I, unlike you have not turned the information posed into a belief system to base my world views on
Well as I have explained in prior replies, we will NEVER have what you could call proof because we haven't gone to ET's door and compared a DNA sample. So it will always be what they call an unknown. Unlike evolution, you have no excuse because there should be a plethora of bones telling the full story.




My research with the bible, Pye, Von Daniken and Sitchin leads me to the understanding they have no evidence and have no more to say than the Star Wars collection that I also have in hardback. I accept nothing that I cannot verify for myself fron different sources or by practicle aplication. For example Evolution
Wtih the vital difference that no one every claimed starwars to be real.




Strangley so did the master in star wars
Sci fi frequently makes up jokes about evolution as well.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


Well At least I gave it one more try.




Then why aren't we able to see it in any of the other 5 million species here on earth? I call BS on the whole thing.

As you have endlessly be told and backed with links we can unless of course you refuse to look. Your faith in aliens blinds you to any other possibility.



No it wont have hot water it will have warm water and I don't see how the spread of dye through tempureature relates to ancestory.

Warm or hot the change has happened and again you dont want to see. No analogy will be accurate but it has more validity than a bomb in a scrap yard.



Then I must have confused you with someone else.

Agreed you are definitely confused


If you honestly own that movie I'm shocked you would even look at evolution.

Again selective reading. I have the paperback, thats a book. This was pre video tape. Why would you be shocked? Oh yes you just accepted it where as I looked into what was being written about.



Well as I have explained in prior replies, we will NEVER have what you could call proof because we haven't gone to ET's door and compared a DNA sample. So it will always be what they call an unknown. Unlike evolution, you have no excuse because there should be a plethora of bones telling the full story.

You have explained that your belief is based on nothing but stories you choose to call it unknown I choose unproven at even the base level.
For the very last time we have the bones, we have the DNA we can see it in action today and modern medicine is based on it. We dont need to tell the story the evidence shows the facts.



Wtih the vital difference that no one every claimed starwars to be real.

Jedi is now an accepted religion in the UK. So finally May the force be with you.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by colin42
 





You have explained that your belief is based on nothing but stories you choose to call it unknown I choose unproven at even the base level.
For the very last time we have the bones, we have the DNA we can see it in action today and modern medicine is based on it. We dont need to tell the story the evidence shows the facts.
No I think I have not only done a good job in proving the bible, but how it has been missuderstood. And the bones you tout that we have don't prove any significant relation to humans. The DNA for sure is missing millions of years to prove your theory. So we still wait, in limbo waiting for this so called evidence.

No one has come out and claimed that our DNA is millions of years old. What they have however said is that more credibility is in that direction over religion because a common ancestor was found just 200,000 years ago. I would bet my life they have refrained from publicising our true age because of one reason and one reason only. It shows that we are older than earth and well, wait for it......... That just isn't possible. They know what it means and are having a problem swallowing it. If humans just so happened to be the same age as earth, or close to it, then damit publish it and put people out of there misery. But they don't. Even then it's not proof of evolution but it sure would make me damn suspicious.

I'm going to take a guess and say we are about 60 billion years old according to our mtDNA. The real shocker is that our lifespan was bottlenecked by God according to the bible and we used to live 1000 years but were sentanced to 120 year life span. If thats correct then it means we would be about 1 more digit older.

I have scoured pages trying to find a true age documented, I even have a print out that I had to pay a library to print because you have to have an account to access the site. All accounts come up with nothing more than the common ancestor 200,000 years old. The closest thing I get to anything different is a comparison done with cattle going back to 275,000 years ago and it says a bottleneck period in our lineage was a close run thing.

The only thing that DNA proving us to be over 10,000 years old means that something was not right with how God suposedly put us here. There is still the possibility that the bible is correct, if DNA can change like evolutionists believe then that could be why. Something else that could be going on is God could have frankensteined us from existing life, and therby our DNA is proving us to be much older.

Of course IMO he's not a creator, hes a mad scientist.



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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So to me there is only one conclusion to be made by the lack of posters to take the challenge.

Even if you believe Evolution does not have all the answers. Without it we have no explanation at all.

There is no expalanation of the diversity we see today without that which Evolution tells us. Job done.



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by colin42
 





So to me there is only one conclusion to be made by the lack of posters to take the challenge.

Even if you believe Evolution does not have all the answers. Without it we have no explanation at all.

There is no expalanation of the diversity we see today without that which Evolution tells us. Job done.
Of course we do, Intervention.



posted on Nov, 28 2011 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


Now, see, do you mean to imply that aliens intervened at literally every single organism on the planet? That's ridiculous.



posted on Nov, 28 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by Varemia
 


No just in how we got to earth. Prior to that is anyones guess, could be evolution or creation or something else.
edit on 28-11-2011 by itsthetooth because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by Varemia
 


No just in how we got to earth. Prior to that is anyones guess, could be evolution or creation or something else.
edit on 28-11-2011 by itsthetooth because: (no reason given)


Now see, that's the point of this thread. It's to provide an alternative to the theory of evolution. You are not even arguing the thread's purpose. You just think that humans are special, for whatever reason.

We're talking about life and diversity of life. How it got the way it is. You have just said you don't know, so that's that. End discussion.



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