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Can you prove evolution wrong?*

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posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 





Because its common sense that life cant exist without it. The only reason why we do have what life we do have left here is only because of what little balance is actually left. en.wikipedia.org... Wiki talks a tad about ecological balance.


Did you even read that link? This is what it has to say about ecological balance:



The atmospheric conditions have been significantly altered from the original conditions by the presence of life-forms,[7] which create an ecological balance that stabilizes the surface conditions. Despite the wide regional variations in climate by latitude and other geographic factors, the long-term average global climate is quite stable during interglacial periods,[8] and variations of a degree or two of average global temperature have historically had major effects on the ecological balance, and on the actual geography of the Earth.

To summarize, global climate is fairly stable between the periods when its unstable. It appears that periodic instability is perfectly natural, and ordinary.

At the bottom of the page is this little gem:


Balance of nature (biological fallacy): A discredited concept of natural equilibrium in predator:prey dynamics.


I'm in a hurry, so I'll get to the rest when I can.

P.S. Food scale? What the heck is that?




posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by mastermindkar
 





The atmospheric conditions have been significantly altered from the original conditions by the presence of life-forms,[7] which create an ecological balance that stabilizes the surface conditions. Despite the wide regional variations in climate by latitude and other geographic factors, the long-term average global climate is quite stable during interglacial periods,[8] and variations of a degree or two of average global temperature have historically had major effects on the ecological balance, and on the actual geography of the Earth.


To summarize, global climate is fairly stable between the periods when its unstable. It appears that periodic instability is perfectly natural, and ordinary.
No they are not natural, they are altered from the original conditions, hence a change that was probably brought on from transpermia. Come on man, instability can't be natural, how the hell is anything going to survive in those conditions, with great difficulty, which is what we see right now. Your taking the first sentance out of context, Your forgetting that this is all very complicated, it appears that species were brought to eath from other places, so if those species are dying out, and the original ones remain, that could explain why the atmosphere can get better. On the other hand if the original species dye out, and the invaders win, that can offset the balance. Don't ask me who belongs and who doesn't its a big mess.




Balance of nature (biological fallacy): A discredited concept of natural equilibrium in predator:prey dynamics.



I'm in a hurry, so I'll get to the rest when I can.

P.S. Food scale? What the heck is that?
Ants and termites can be the same species to the ant eater. I'm glad balance of nature is discredited and not disproven.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by mastermindkar
 





To summarize, global climate is fairly stable between the periods when its unstable. It appears that periodic instability is perfectly natural, and ordinary.
Btw that depends on what you expect to have happen. If you think the planet is going to suddendly fall out of orbit, your wrong, but if you think it might set us up in the 6th largest extinction your right.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:00 AM
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Ya but no one is coming out and claiming that electromagnetism is responsible for evolutionary changes.


WRONG!!.. And I've already linked to it... Almost all the mechanisms stated by evolution are electromagnetic mechanisms. Yes gravity and pressure waves provide influence in the processes, but you are clearly not educated enough to have this discussion giving by your response here...So, just as you can't light a match without electromagnetism, you can't have life, evolution, or mechanisms of evolution, without electromagnetism. You're a laymen who can't even grasp the most laymen aspects of this discussion, and thus there literally is no point in trying to educate an intentionally ignorant laymen.



I know you didn't state that, I guoted it from a website.


On what website did I ever state that? And you admit quote mining me here, yeah dishonest and not even ashamed of being dishonest. That spells internet Troll all over it.



All I'm saying is that you agree any changes must be called evolution, and I'm saying that the changes that occur from ADHD your also saying must be evolution when they clearly aren't. So your wrong.


I didn't agree to your post, I clarified for you that evolution is in laymen terms, "change", and that can be for better or worse, and it's irrelevant of the mechanisms or processes that cause it.

The flower mutated whether you want to agree or not..Intentional ignorance of the fact isn't going to make it magically fictional.. It mutated, became fertile, and generated a new species of flower. Evolution point blank in your face and your too stupid to even see it. And your own argument about "change" was like watching you slap yourself.

So no..you're wrong..

We also study those mechanisms to better understand the processes to which we also use for practical application to benefit ourselves.. Evolution plays a huge role in modern medicine, cybernetics, cloning, computer science, engineering, and all sorts of fields.. Most of everything we have today came to be through the study of nature and how it works, and that includes evolutionary processes..



No there is something else going on like with ADHD changing DNA, and they just haven't identified that yet, so they go with what they feel is the best answer at this time which is, there are changes and we haven't identified them so they must be evolution.


Please site the peer reviewed journals on it. And for sake of argument, it would still be electromagnetic phenomenon. It's still going to involve atoms interacting with each other. But hey, you can feel free to post a peer review journal where we can find life here that is not governed by electromagnetism, or life on where life is missing it's atoms. In fact, if you can show us a change in DNA without the 4 forces, then you might have something to argue with.. And good luck with that lol..
edit on 1-8-2012 by TheJackelantern because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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He's not interested in peer reviewed journals, facts, logic, truth, or anything that does not prop up his ridicules fantasy.
You will have better luck educating this guy.


A super troll has no intellectual moral ground it's all about game.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by flyingfish
He's not interested in peer reviewed journals, facts, logic, truth, or anything that does not prop up his ridicules fantasy.
You will have better luck educating this guy.


A super troll has no intellectual moral ground it's all about game.


Though I hear Target has a special sale on 9-oz. or larger Purina Beneful Baked Delights dog treats.. A dollar OFF!
coupons.target.com...
We can feed the troll!..



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 08:41 AM
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lol. I must concede defeat! ' proof ' of Target food.....

coupons.target.com...
edit on 1-8-2012 by flyingfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 09:19 AM
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Speaking of target food, the Cormorant's target food preference is now 150 feet underwater! This bird obviously evolved to fly but now is in transition to become more like a penguin...






The footage came from Punta León in Patagonia, Argentina, a coastal protected area supporting more than 3.500 pairs of imperial cormorants. A WCS scientific team, led by Dr. Flavio Quintana, has been studying the cormorants' feeding behavior for the past ten years. The team was joined by Dr. Carlos Zavalaga along with Ken Yoda from the University of Nogoya, Japan to fit the camera on the bird.

LINK



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by TheJackelantern

Originally posted by flyingfish
He's not interested in peer reviewed journals, facts, logic, truth, or anything that does not prop up his ridicules fantasy.
You will have better luck educating this guy.


A super troll has no intellectual moral ground it's all about game.


Though I hear Target has a special sale on 9-oz. or larger Purina Beneful Baked Delights dog treats.. A dollar OFF!
coupons.target.com...
We can feed the troll!..


Just watch your fingers.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by TheJackelantern
 





Ya but no one is coming out and claiming that electromagnetism is responsible for evolutionary changes.


WRONG!!.. And I've already linked to it... Almost all the mechanisms stated by evolution are electromagnetic mechanisms. Yes gravity and pressure waves provide influence in the processes, but you are clearly not educated enough to have this discussion giving by your response here...So, just as you can't light a match without electromagnetism, you can't have life, evolution, or mechanisms of evolution, without electromagnetism. You're a laymen who can't even grasp the most laymen aspects of this discussion, and thus there literally is no point in trying to educate an intentionally ignorant laymen
There is no way your going to convince me that electromagnetisim is responsible for all of the changes that got us from apes to humans. I don't care how smart or how dumb somone is, thats just a load of crap. BTW I happen to be the identifier of an arcane virus which also happens to be in the field of magnetism so you can't say I couldn't comprehend it.




I know you didn't state that, I guoted it from a website.


On what website did I ever state that? And you admit quote mining me here, yeah dishonest and not even ashamed of being dishonest. That spells internet Troll all over it.
I don't know why you keep saying that, how do you not know that I just remembered something specifically you wrote, which is actually what happened.




I didn't agree to your post, I clarified for you that evolution is in laymen terms, "change", and that can be for better or worse, and it's irrelevant of the mechanisms or processes that cause it.
And again for the third time, your agreeing with me. If its irrelevant what the mechanism is, then ADHD would fit the bill.




We also study those mechanisms to better understand the processes to which we also use for practical application to benefit ourselves.. Evolution plays a huge role in modern medicine, cybernetics, cloning, computer science, engineering, and all sorts of fields.. Most of everything we have today came to be through the study of nature and how it works, and that includes evolutionary processes..
And again I ask, wihout knowing whats specifically causing the changes, how do you know its actually evolution?




No there is something else going on like with ADHD changing DNA, and they just haven't identified that yet, so they go with what they feel is the best answer at this time which is, there are changes and we haven't identified them so they must be evolution.


Please site the peer reviewed journals on it. And for sake of argument, it would still be electromagnetic phenomenon. It's still going to involve atoms interacting with each other. But hey, you can feel free to post a peer review journal where we can find life here that is not governed by electromagnetism, or life on where life is missing it's atoms. In fact, if you can show us a change in DNA without the 4 forces, then you might have something to argue with.. And good luck with that lol..
Did it ever occur to you that the electromagnetic occurances might just be there because of another reason, and not that they are there to influence the change. But if there is one pattern I have noticed in the realm of evolution, its how assumptions are made.

I can link the site about our DNA changing from ADHD...
www.activistpost.com... This is not the original link I posted earlier, you will have to go back to get that link, however this one also expalins ADHD as being an evolutionary gift.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by flyingfish
 





He's not interested in peer reviewed journals, facts, logic, truth, or anything that does not prop up his ridicules fantasy.
You will have better luck educating this guy.
Peer reviews have no place regarding things back in a biblical time, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by flyingfish
 





Speaking of target food, the Cormorant's target food preference is now 150 feet underwater! This bird obviously evolved to fly but now is in transition to become more like a penguin...
And you probably think that its all in the realm of evolution. He's not evolving, he's starving so he has to venture elsewhere for food. He is becoming another statistic that will be part of the 6th largest extinction pool.

And you totally lost the idea of target food.
Target food DOES NOT change, its pre determined and set.
If it appears to, then its obvious that species is about to fall on the extinction list as it has nothing to eat. Or at least not its intended food.
edit on 1-8-2012 by itsthetooth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by flyingfish
 





He's not interested in peer reviewed journals, facts, logic, truth, or anything that does not prop up his ridicules fantasy.
You will have better luck educating this guy.
Peer reviews have no place regarding things back in a biblical time, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that.


Hahahahaha, so basically anything's possible and blind faith is all it takes? Welcome to fantasy land I guess

edit on 1-8-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 





Hahahahaha, so basically anything's possible and blind faith is all it takes? Welcome to fantasy land I guess
I don't remember reading anywhere that anything is possible so no. And what does blind faith have to do with anything, what does faith have to do with anything? I never read anywhere in the bible that anything was fantasy so that must be your opinion.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by idmonster
 





Still not getting it eh?

The cause of the change is irrelevant, the effects of the change are. If the change is passed onto the offspring, that is just inheritance. If the change spreads throughout the species due to the benficial nature aiding reproduction........................................(ever get half way through a paragraph and realise what a waste of time its going to be).............................................that is evolution.


So I'm right.

I said this like 6 times, and even though I know its going to be a total waste of time, I'll say it again.

If a pregnant mother smokes a cigarette while pregnant, the baby will be born with ADHD. This actually makes changes in the DNA.

In essence, smoking can manipulate evolution.


As long as you agree with my statement above your understanding is correct. But this has not been what you have been saying.

You have been saying that smoking causes changes to DNA, that we have been saying that all changes are evolution (no body here has said that) but becasue this change was caused by smoking it cant be evolution. This is becuase, up until now, you seemed to be under the impression that evolution causes changes to happen. We have been trying to say that this is not the case, that evolution doesnt cause anything to happen.

Evolution is merely a term, (once it was a made up term...like target food) that is used to gather all of the information we understand about how changes within a species occurs and get passed on to the offspring, and how some of those changes are beneficial enough to the animal that it has a better chance of survival to procreation and therefore pass on those (heritable) changes to its offspring.

There are many chemical, polutant, radiative, random mutation and copying error causes that can change DNA.

There are many environmental pressures, from type of habitat, changes caused by natural or man made interferance and food availability, that can make life easy of difficult for a species.

There are sexual selection preferences, build, speed, intelligence, that might cause a femael to choose onn male over another. (it usually is the female)

All of the above, over time interact together to cause the evolution of the species (there it is again...other things cause evolution, evolution causes nothing). If those changes are beneficial, the species prospers, if they are to the detriment, the species suffers. Sometimes to the ultimate conclusion of extinction.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by mastermindkar
 


Ants and termites can be the same species to the ant eater.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ants and cows and telephone books could be the same species to the anteater.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by mastermindkar
 



The atmospheric conditions have been significantly altered from the original conditions by the presence of life-forms,[7] which create an ecological balance that stabilizes the surface conditions.

If the presence of life-forms stabilizes surface conditions, that means that conditions were less stable before that. Thus, the instability must be natural. I don't know why you assume living must be easy,


Ants and termites can be the same species to the ant eater. I'm glad balance of nature is discredited and not disproven.

This doesn't make sense unless one assumes you have eschewed the biological definition of "species" in favor of the much broader general definition:
"a class of individuals having some common characteristics or qualities; distinct sort or kind." (As per dictionary.com)
This seems to significantly broaden the possibilities for target food. Which is all well and good, except I was hoping you could be more specific and not less. I mean, by this logic all fruit that grows on trees could be a target food, or all hoofed mammals, or all tubers, or all fish.

Also, please elaborate on your idea of a "food scale." I am unfamiliar with the concept and am interested in how it applies to your ideas.
edit on 1-8-2012 by mastermindkar because: typo

edit on 1-8-2012 by mastermindkar because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by MrXYZ
 





Hahahahaha, so basically anything's possible and blind faith is all it takes? Welcome to fantasy land I guess
I don't remember reading anywhere that anything is possible so no. And what does blind faith have to do with anything, what does faith have to do with anything? I never read anywhere in the bible that anything was fantasy so that must be your opinion.



It's not just fantasy...a TON of it is DEMONSTRABLY wrong



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by idmonster

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by mastermindkar
 


Ants and termites can be the same species to the ant eater.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ants and cows and telephone books could be the same species to the anteater.


Yes, let's all pretend we're anteaters and don't actually have to use our human brains



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by idmonster
 





As long as you agree with my statement above your understanding is correct. But this has not been what you have been saying.

You have been saying that smoking causes changes to DNA, that we have been saying that all changes are evolution (no body here has said that) but becasue this change was caused by smoking it cant be evolution. This is becuase, up until now, you seemed to be under the impression that evolution causes changes to happen. We have been trying to say that this is not the case, that evolution doesnt cause anything to happen.
Now your getting closer to understanding. So you realize that smoking can change DNA, and that this was just identified recently, which means that before that period of discovery, it was being looked at like ordinary evolution. Now how many other things have me missed that might account for evolution as a whole.

This is why I said and why I keep saying that you can't claim evoltuion is making changes, when you haven't identified whats causing the changes, then I found that article about ADHD changing genes.




Evolution is merely a term, (once it was a made up term...like target food) that is used to gather all of the information we understand about how changes within a species occurs and get passed on to the offspring, and how some of those changes are beneficial enough to the animal that it has a better chance of survival to procreation and therefore pass on those (heritable) changes to its offspring.

There are many chemical, polutant, radiative, random mutation and copying error causes that can change DNA.

There are many environmental pressures, from type of habitat, changes caused by natural or man made interferance and food availability, that can make life easy of difficult for a species.

There are sexual selection preferences, build, speed, intelligence, that might cause a femael to choose onn male over another. (it usually is the female)

All of the above, over time interact together to cause the evolution of the species (there it is again...other things cause evolution, evolution causes nothing). If those changes are beneficial, the species prospers, if they are to the detriment, the species suffers. Sometimes to the ultimate conclusion of extinction.
I'm always sarcastic in saying that evolution is a creator, as it supposedly does create new species. Did you not ever think that there might be intelligence behind it?



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