Can you prove evolution wrong

reply to post by itsthetooth

You can't seal them unless they are balanced, OMG your such a moron. How do you expect anything to live?

How did you come to that conclusion? I can blow up a balloon, seal it but it is not a balanced eco system.

Regarding the shrimp torture chamber. I dont expect the shrimp to live. I expect it to die prematurely as it is poisoned by its own waste and consumes it own body due to lack of nourishment. To die at no more than 1 to 3 years instead of the twenty years. The normal life expectancy of this hardy shrimp.

If you had bothered to read the information I gave you, you would know this.

reply to post by colin42

How did you come to that conclusion? I can blow up a balloon, seal it but it is not a balanced eco system.

It depends on whats in it. But your surely not going to put some poor little life in there just to seal it up and kill it. Those tanks are suppose to hold the life not kill them.

Regarding the shrimp torture chamber. I dont expect the shrimp to live. I expect it to die prematurely as it is poisoned by its own waste and consumes it own body due to lack of nourishment. To die at no more than 1 to 3 years instead of the twenty years. The normal life expectancy of this hardy shrimp.

If you had bothered to read the information I gave you, you would know this.

Like I said, it wasn't the ideal example.

reply to post by colin42

Nope all that is needed is that you address the point raised. The sealed globe is not a balanced eco system as you maintained unless you can prove otherwise.

No it is a balanced system, just not the best.

See the way a reasoned argument works. You set out your argument. You explain how you arrived at your opinion and if possible back that up with evidence.

I have and you have not.

Just because you found a tank that didn't extend the life of the shrimp is hardly what I would call a fail.

reply to post by colin42


The bottom line here colin is that these companys build and market these balanced tanks as such.
People buy them and utilize them as such.

But collin is having a problem accepting them as such.
This isn't about whats truth and whats a lie based on what colin accepts or not.
Sorry to be the one to tell you but they allready marketed it and sold it and people are happy with it.
You really need to find another angle to argue because your just looking stupid.

reply to post by itsthetooth

No it is a balanced system, just not the best.

No really. It is either a balanced eco system or it is not. You cant have a little bit balanced I'm afraid. It's an all or nothing deal.

I maintain it is not a balanced system as it kills the shrimp

So from your answer you are admitting that it is not a balanced system. Until you come up with an example of a balanced eco system please defer from using the term.

Just because you found a tank that didn't extend the life of the shrimp is hardly what I would call a fail.

Do you have a one second memory?

You supplied the tank claiming it was a balanced eco system. That should mean the shrimp (that you called a fish) should live and grow happily for twenty years. It actually dies within 1 to 3 years. Poisoned and starved.

The shrimps life is not extended it is cut short. I.E. the sealed globe is not a balanced system.

reply to post by itsthetooth

The bottom line here colin is that these companys build and market these balanced tanks as such.

Have you never purchased somthing that did not do what it claimed on the label? It does not matter what the company marketing plan is the truth is it is not a balanced system. The early death of the shrimp proves that.

But collin is having a problem accepting them as such.

Hey your not on a pulpit. Your replying to my post. The only problem you have is I do not accept your claims that this is a balanced eco system or the lies you have made since to avoid admitting you were wrong. I have already found out the sealed tank is a torture chamber.

This isn't about whats truth and whats a lie based on what colin accepts or not.

I'll accept a reasoned argument even if I beileve it is wrong. You have not even attempted one. Thats not acceptable.

Sorry to be the one to tell you but they allready marketed it and sold it and people are happy with it.

Oh your back talking to me now then. Yes it appears they sold it to your imaginary friend. There is one born every minute.

You really need to find another angle to argue because your just looking stupid.

I dont mind looking stupid as long as I show you to be pig ignorant and dishonest. Its a fair trade off.

reply to post by itsthetooth

It depends on whats in it. But your surely not going to put some poor little life in there just to seal it up and kill it. Those tanks are suppose to hold the life not kill them.

Who's looking stupid now? very poor response from you

Like I said, it wasn't the ideal example.

Like I said it was not an example of a balanced eco system

reply to post by colin42

No really. It is either a balanced eco system or it is not. You cant have a little bit balanced I'm afraid. It's an all or nothing deal.

Well I'm sure there are always better examples for sure. The one my friend had, as I recall would live about 10 years with sun provided.

I maintain it is not a balanced system as it kills the shrimp

Well there could be a lot more to the pictue than just that, but there you go assuming.
You have to remember that the earth is suppose to work in the same way, just on a grander scale.

So from your answer you are admitting that it is not a balanced system. Until you come up with an example of a balanced eco system please defer from using the term.

Eco balanced systems and the whole idea behind them goes back pretty far, just like its indicated in the Wiki on it as well. en.wikipedia.org...

Honestly your kicking a dead horse, are you not going to tell me that Wiki is also wrong?

Do you have a one second memory?

You supplied the tank claiming it was a balanced eco system. That should mean the shrimp (that you called a fish) should live and grow happily for twenty years. It actually dies within 1 to 3 years. Poisoned and starved.

The shrimps life is not extended it is cut short. I.E. the sealed globe is not a balanced system.

Now DR colin, did they actually indicated that he dies poisned and starfed or was this your own research?

Originally posted by itsthetooth
Which is all fine, but for the second time now, evolution has nothing to do with mixed breeding. There is nothing that proves this mixed breeding has anything to do with evolution.

That's not true at all. Breeding has EVERYTHING to do with evolution. That is how certain genes are passed down to offspring, and why people of European and Asian decent still have 1-4% of neanderthal genes. It explains how homo sapiens have such a diverse amount of traits that you consider "normal". The population splits into 2 separate areas for hundreds of thousands of years. One population adapts to one environment while the other does the same in a much different one. Africa vs Europe. This is why the species (or sub species) becomes different. Then they meet up again later and breed, sharing the genes. If there was no evolution, then the species would stay exactly the same in both environments, but clearly that's not the case.

Dude, I just CLEARLY explained that "normal" is not a scientific term and has nothing to do with this. Eye color is based on genes being dominant or recessive and being passed down to the offspring accordingly. There is no such thing as "normal". Sometimes people are even born with 2 different eye colors

So now that we have both established that "normal" is NOT a scientific term, now I ask how is it that we assess evolutionary changes to accept them as such?

We assess evolutionary changes by genetic mutation and natural selection.

Name one single change in a species that isn't caused by mutation. Good luck. Again, you keep trying to define evolution in your own terms, instead of reading the scientific definition. Evolution is change over time caused by genetic mutation and sorted by natural selection. Before you were claiming that humans have not changed and I proved you wrong. Now you are saying they do change, but it's not evolution. Give me evidence of that please. Remember this thread is about explaining diversity without evolution. Now's your chance to do it.

Breeding.

You have got to be kidding me. Breeding is where evolution takes place! Breeding has everything to do with natural selection. We are talking genetic mutations here, not just passing down traits from parent to child, but obviously both play a role, and it's been studied and proven. Geez man, you really like to change the subject.

Well its quite simple actually. First your trying to tell me that starting out as apes, we became another species, and humans have them as a common ancestor. To go through all of the changes to allow this to happen would take trillions of years. There is no benchmark, so you are right that most people complain it being to fast, and that's looking at it in existing terms. The problem is that it couldn't have happened in this short of time though microevoltuion or macroevoltuion. Since macro is just micro many times over, it would take trillions of years.

Again, please back this up with facts, or it won't be taken seriously. You are just making wild assumptions here. We can determine how much hominids have changed in the past few million years by studying fossils and genetics. We SEE how long it takes, and it certainly isn't trillions of years. LOL.

IMO none of these events are real, in any time frame. We have no evidence that has ever proven conclusively that any species became another species. It's something that supposedly happens all the time, even today, but happens over long enough periods of time as so it can't be witnessed. So looking at bones and fossils we are still unable to identify this process. I call total BS on it.

So, the science experiment that demonstrates speciation is a lab means nothing? You are repeating the same nonsense from 100 pages back. We can prove genetic mutation is real and that it causes changes in organisms. That isn't up for debate in the least. We ARE able to identify the process, we can measure the rates. You are intentionally lying about this. I'm not sure why. Speciation doesn't happen "all the time". It often takes hundreds of thousands of years. In some organisms we see it happen quicker.

reply to post by colin42

Have you never purchased somthing that did not do what it claimed on the label? It does not matter what the company marketing plan is the truth is it is not a balanced system. The early death of the shrimp proves that.

I don't agree with your half @$$ research. I think if they are advertising that the shrimp will live 1 to 3 years and it does, then its not false advertising. Now had they of indicated it should live 20 years and it only lives three, well now that is where DR Colin should step in. Seriously your just trying to find something to squawk your box about, and as usuall your WRONG.

It is still a balanced system within the constraints that they have laid out. They never said it was an ideal or perfect or amazing balanced tank.

Hey your not on a pulpit. Your replying to my post. The only problem you have is I do not accept your claims that this is a balanced eco system or the lies you have made since to avoid admitting you were wrong. I have already found out the sealed tank is a torture chamber.

Then contact the company colin and let them know you found them to be in a lie.

I'll accept a reasoned argument even if I beileve it is wrong. You have not even attempted one. Thats not acceptable.

Thats only because everyone else is always wrong and your always right.

Oh your back talking to me now then. Yes it appears they sold it to your imaginary friend. There is one born every minute.

Ya the only problem is that my friends was good for 10 years.

I dont mind looking stupid as long as I show you to be pig ignorant and dishonest. Its a fair trade off.

Keep dreaming DR Colin. They advertised what the tank does, and they are being completly honest but somewhere in there Colin has found lies.
Thats a new product to sell. DR Colin the lie detector. Able to sniff them out even when they don't exist.

"Darwinism" relies on Genetic and Cellular Mutation.

From what little I know and have read, 99% of all mutations are BAD!!!
ie, Cancer, Birth Defects and general mayhem with the organism that has had this mutation.
This is simple Organic Chemistry.

If this is not true, then we need to change the textbooks.
If it is true, the laws of probability need to be updated.

This topic should bring out a lot of interesting views but the only evidence I really need
is for someone to show me ANY significant helpful (showing advancement) mutation in
ANY species within the last 200 years!!!

At least that would give the "Darwinists" some kind of foothold!
Until then, the Creationist theory holds as much water as Darwin
maybe more as the time involved supports the "popping out of nowhere" theory

reply to post by colin42

It depends on whats in it. But your surely not going to put some poor little life in there just to seal it up and kill it. Those tanks are suppose to hold the life not kill them.

Who's looking stupid now? very poor response from you


Like I said, it wasn't the ideal example.

Like I said it was not an example of a balanced eco system

I don't know what to tell you man, call them on false advertising, but honestly, I'm not seeing it.

reply to post by itsthetooth

Well I'm sure there are always better examples for sure. The one my friend had, as I recall would live about 10 years with sun provided.

No there is only eco systems. I maintain there are no balanced eco systems. You cannot show me otherwise. Lets say for one moment this friend exists. He supplies the sun (puts it in the window) the tank is therefore not a sealed unit as energy is being added by the sun.

Winter sun and summer sun will add less or more energy respectively. Cloudy days alter the energy supplied. It is not a balanced system.

Well there could be a lot more to the pictue than just that, but there you go assuming.
You have to remember that the earth is suppose to work in the same way, just on a grander scale.

No you are assuming there could be more to it. I explained in the post with links to back me up. You never looked at what was happening. Poor show on your part really

No again. If you think the earth acts like the sealed torture chamber you are seriously misinformed.

Eco balanced systems and the whole idea behind them goes back pretty far, just like its indicated in the Wiki on it as well. en.wikipedia.org...

Another link you supplied but did not read. You should it is very informative. Alas there is not a mention at all of a 'balanced eco system'.

Honestly your kicking a dead horse, are you not going to tell me that Wiki is also wrong?

No. I just told you to read it. No one disputes the earth has many eco systems. Just no balanced eco systems

Now DR colin, did they actually indicated that he dies poisned and starfed or was this your own research?

Well Pinochio. I did my own research using others research to base my conclusion on and supplied you the information for review free of charge but you refused to look.

reply to post by itsthetooth

I don't agree with your half @$$ research. I think if they are advertising that the shrimp will live 1 to 3 years and it does, then its not false advertising. Now had they of indicated it should live 20 years and it only lives three, well now that is where DR Colin should step in. Seriously your just trying to find something to squawk your box about, and as usuall your WRONG.

Problem is if you did not read my research on the torture chamber then you really have nothing to say. Proof that you did not read it is in 'I dont think they are advertising...........'. I never said they did. I linked to where they sold the unit, correcting the wrong link you gave then linked to what others had discovered. The truth. It is not a balanced eco system. I then linked to the information on the shrimp.

So seriously you are doing a great job of highlighting your ignorance. Makes me feel a little redundant.

It is still a balanced system within the constraints that they have laid out. They never said it was an ideal or perfect or amazing balanced tank.

It cannot be a balanced eco system if it kills the shrimp. You do know the motto of this site is 'Deny Ignorance' and not 'Deny in Ignorance' even though you are determined to do so.

Then contact the company colin and let them know you found them to be in a lie.

Nope. I showed you to be incorrect. You have lied ever since. Id rather continue showing that.

Thats only because everyone else is always wrong and your always right.

No really read what I write. Everyone else is usually right only you are always wrong

Ya the only problem is that my friends was good for 10 years.

Ya already explained why it is not a balanced eco system

Keep dreaming DR Colin. They advertised what the tank does, and they are being completly honest but somewhere in there Colin has found lies.

And you know that without any research. Your very trusting of fraudsters. Colin did find lies. Mainly yours.

Thats a new product to sell. DR Colin the lie detector. Able to sniff them out even when they don't exist.

No my lie detector has sniffed out every lie you have told. 100% accuracy. Thats why your so upset.

reply to post by Arrow22
Would this do

nairobi Women Develope immunity to aids

reply to post by itsthetooth

I don't know what to tell you man, call them on false advertising, but honestly, I'm not seeing it.

Nelson, blind eye. Remember

Very interesting article and yes, this might do

Couple of things though...
some of the women developed AIDS after using protection???
Seems a little suspicious but okay

Also, no one seems to have a solid response as to what actually causes AIDS.

I am asking for an example of mutation that persists and gives the organism
a solid advantage in his environment. Now if these women are the only survivors
in thier area and everyone else dies, this example will work.
This one has a few issues I am not comfortable with and the reporting source
could be suspect. I would like to see what the Journal of Medicine would say.

Originally posted by colin42
reply to post by Arrow22

 

Would this do

nairobi Women Develope immunity to aids

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by colin42

 

OMG you are so stupid. Did you miss the post I supplied 3 times showing you the correct link that you got wrong but giving you an explanation of why it is not a balanced eco system.

I never claimed that these torture tanks do not exist, I showed you they are not a balanced eco system.

And I'm saying so what you got a bum link, I still know they exist as I had a friend that owned one.

Yeah. I remember a government official saying there is no evidence for Gulf War Syndrome. He also answered NO to the next question, is any science being done to identify it. You just have not looked and refuse to look.

Actually your wrong again, I have looked and never found anything.

You have said in your last two replies that it shows a balanced eco system you nob

Sure, but in your opinion, its not so balanced. I'm saying so what, they still exist even if you found one not so balanced.

Ok colin since your being so incredulous, here are some more links for you to tear up.

www.advancedaquarist.com...
www.ohgizmo.com...
It's ok colin I know your still learning how to use google so I will do it for you.

It was your weak example you complete muppet. You have not shown an example of a balanced eco system so cannot honestly maintain they exist.

Your claim you have made a good argument is as pathetic as all your rediculous statments drawn from ignorance.

Well then it looks like you got your work cut out for you again, you need to notify all these vendors that there is no such thing.

From the first link

Hermetically sealed ecosystems

This type of mini-ecosystem is considered the epitome of the genre; a totally enclosed system that only uses light energy to maintain the life functions of the animals and plants that reside, all locked inside. As mentioned, a truly self-sustaining, stable sealed ecosystem is really a pipe dream, no more achievable than a perpetual motion device. However, for the short term (months to perhaps a few years) these sealed systems may maintain stability

The second link is actualy an artical about the cruelty towrds fish being sold in sealed bags. Neither even pretends to provide a sealed balance eco-system.

What point were you trying to make?

I believe that colin has never doubted that people sell these things, just that they are not as described by you.

reply to post by Arrow22
Here is another example

Sickle Cell gives immunity to malaria

Interesting paragraph shows the sickle cell trait is more common in high malaria areas and shows natural selection at work. A case where an otherwise considered negative mutation has a benificial affect.

Have a read. very informative

Edit

Shows that natural selection selects for those able to pass on their genes. The fact that they have a disadvantage of an increased chance of sickle cell anemia is neither here or there in that enviroment.

Pretty much highlights what evolution describes.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by colin42

 

One of the poorest reasoned arguments I have seen since the last time you tried it. The sparrow has a relationship with the house that humans build. If we alter the house it affects the sparrow. That is a relationship whether your small mind accepts it or not.

And if I step on an ant, and kill him, 50 come to his funeral, I don't consider that a relationship either.


Wahey...Ants have funerals, I didnt know that. Well! thats another trait they share with humans that other animals dont...looking more and more like ants and us are from the same place, still not sure where that leaves mister anteater!