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BREAKING: Kelly Thomas Case, Officer Charged with Murder

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posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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Officer Faces Murder Charge in Kelly Thomas Case

One officer will face a second-degree murder charge in the death of Kelly Thomas -- a man who died after a July 5 altercation with six Fullerton police officers.

Kelly Thomas Case Timeline

The announcement at the District Attorney's news conference Wednesday came a day after the Orange County Coroner's Office sent its report on what caused the death of Kelly Thomas to the District Attorney's Office.

"We've heard over and over the word justice, the public has been crying for justice for Kelly," said DA Tony Rackauckas.

Officer Manuel Ramos will be charged with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, according to the DA's office. He faces up to life in prison, if convicted.



Some small measure that the 'system' occasionally works.


See also: The Death Of Kelly Thomas

ETA:

Extended Version:




edit on 21-9-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by loam
 

That is the best news I have heard today. Justice served may be rare, but stories like that show it isn't totally unheard of. I wonder how much the pressure from Anonymous had to do with their choice to pursue the full Murder route on charging the cop? I'll sure be following this case closely, with the millions of others who are outraged over it.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by loam
 

That is the best news I have heard today. Justice served may be rare, but stories like that show it isn't totally unheard of. I wonder how much the pressure from Anonymous had to do with their choice to pursue the full Murder route on charging the cop? I'll sure be following this case closely, with the millions of others who are outraged over it.


This is good news.... I dont think they are doing this because of pressure though. Contrary to what we see on tv shows like Law and Order and CSI, autopsies / blood tox etc can take some time to process. In my area evidence we submit to be analyzed can take anywhere from 2 months up to a year to get it back based on the labs load level.

In this case they filed the charges a day after the autopsy, which to me sounds like this has been in the pipeline and was not made offical till the autopsy came back.

Either or, this is definitely a good thing..



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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The DA said one very important thing in his press conference that I've been saying for years, and people have always looked at me like I'm crazy. "You have a right to defend yourself from a police officer". I plan to quote that man to police quite a bit now.

Also I'm not the least bit impressed with one token police officer facing 15 to life and other facing 4 years. If me and my brothers beat a cop to death they'd execute us on the scene, which is what a town worth living in would have done to those cops when they say what was going down.

Every single cop who was on the scene and not trying to stop the beating needs to be fired and charged. Just by being an extra cop there, they were making sure that the public could not intervene to save the life of a fellow citizen being abused by the authorities.

And let's get to the very heart of the issue: will what happens to these cops deter future abuses?
NO. It's so incredibly unlikely, it's only hitting the most ridiuclously out of control one of them, and keep in mind he still might walk.
More is needed.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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Good luck getting convicted, and if he does his lawyers will have mountains of appeals due to all the media coverage, hard to find on UN-biased person.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
The DA said one very important thing in his press conference that I've been saying for years, and people have always looked at me like I'm crazy. "You have a right to defend yourself from a police officer". I plan to quote that man to police quite a bit now.

Uhm yeah... You have that ability in the county this Prosecuting Attorney has jurisdiction in. Telling an officer you can defend yourself in new york while citing a California DA wont work, but I wish I could be a fly on the wall to watch that encounter unfold. You may also want to research what you can and cannot do when dealing with law enforcement in your locality.



Originally posted by The Vagabond
Also I'm not the least bit impressed with one token police officer facing 15 to life and other facing 4 years. If me and my brothers beat a cop to death they'd execute us on the scene, which is what a town worth living in would have done to those cops when they say what was going down.

Your overdramatization about being executed aside, why were the other 4 given lighter sentences? What was their level of participation in the crime?



Originally posted by The Vagabond
Every single cop who was on the scene and not trying to stop the beating needs to be fired and charged. Just by being an extra cop there, they were making sure that the public could not intervene to save the life of a fellow citizen being abused by the authorities.

Using your logic then everysingle bystander should also be rounded up and charged for not stopping it. Sword cuts both ways...



Originally posted by The Vagabond
And let's get to the very heart of the issue: will what happens to these cops deter future abuses?
NO. It's so incredibly unlikely, it's only hitting the most ridiuclously out of control one of them, and keep in mind he still might walk.
More is needed.

Education is very much an issue in these types of manners, from the Officers and use of force right down to the people needing to learn how the law works and how it affects them in the long run.

I have no issues with cops being held accountable, and actions like the ones taken in this mess, definitely dont help bridge the gap between the Police and the People.

Addressing these issues will require more communication between the People and the Police and People and the government. Its one thing to be outraged over police actions and results. However, complaining about it and making blanket statements (like many many people do on this site) that all cops are bad doesnt help the problem either, and if anything is a bit hypocritical.

To be outraged that law enforcement violates a persons rights only to demand the officers rights be violated doesnt solve the problem, and only creates a further divide (as well as presenting a hypocritical view to the application of law).

People need to take the outrage / anger / irritation at law enforcement, and be productive with it. Get invovled with government, vote, voice your concern to your elected officals. For Law Enforcement, take some time to speak with the Command Staff and see if they have programs to bridge the divide (Community Orientated Policing polices etc).

In my city the Chief of Police, every Wednesday, has breakfast at different businesses in town for 3 hours. During this time the community is welcomed to come join him for breakfast to discuss concerns / issues / ideas / suggestions / feedback what have you.

This has led to better communications and a better understanding, on both sides, of the general attitudes in the community and identifies areas to concentrate on.
edit on 21-9-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
Uhm yeah... You have that ability in the county this Prosecuting Attorney has jurisdiction in. Telling an officer you can defend yourself in new york while citing a California DA wont work, but I wish I could be a fly on the wall to watch that encounter unfold. You may also want to research what you can and cannot do when dealing with law enforcement in your locality.


You're missing the point. I'm not saying it's a legal escape. I'm saying the system does realize that it has gone too far, and that it is normal for a person to reach a point where they draw a line in the sand and no longer comply. Its not about being snotty and telling cops they can't touch you, it's about the fact that we need to start testing these men who we have entrusted to bear arms in our name- it's time to begin every traffic stop with, "step out of line and I'm gonna confiscate your gun and your badge". Hell yes they'll react violently to that, but they have no right to react violently to the statement that you won't tollerate abuse- so game on, they failed the test- and so what if that gets my ass kicked- they can't win all fights all the time. Back in the day, it wasn't uncommon for cops and street guys to go at it- nobody went to jail for it, relatively few people got killed, you just got the bad blood out and went on with your life after you healed up. Hardly perfect but a damn bit better than getting shot, tazed, or rat-packed to death by a bunch of baby-faced momma's boys who think a couple semesters running laps around the community college makes them lean mean enforcers. Trust me on this one, if Americans start fist-fighting with the police on a regular basis it will improve both the quality of our law enforcement and the fading masculinity of culture in general, and there is ample reason to start.



Your overdramatization about being executed aside, why were the other 4 given lighter sentences? What was their level of participation in the crime?

As I explained, and you misunderstood, their very presence prevented the intervention of concerned citizens. They were providing security to police engaged in misconduct and they should be fired and charged. The DA reasons that they did not know what was happening was wrong. They thought it was a normal arrest they were supporting.
So what the DA is saying is that beating somebody to death looks exactly like a normal arrest, and if you weren't there at the beginning, you couldn't tell the difference. Utter nonsense. Everyone who was there with a uniform badge and gun was either enabling what happened, or preventing what happened- and nobody prevented it.




Using your logic then everysingle bystander should also be rounded up and charged for not stopping it. Sword cuts both ways...

There's your big musunderstanding. I'm not saying they are guilty of innaction. I'm saying they are guilty of actively providing a barrier between their colleagues and the onlookers. The onlookers would indeed be at least morally at fault for not doing anything if they just sat there and watched one or two cops kill a man. But what do you expect them to do when more armed men come racing to the scene to protect their out of control crony?




Education is very much an issue in these types of manners, from the Officers and use of force right down to the people needing to learn how the law works and how it affects them in the long run.


If you need further education to understand that you can't beat a helpless man to death maybe you're too screwed up to be a cop in the first place.

One thing that seems to be lost on most people is that the world we take for granted as "the way it is" and don't feel we can stray too far from- the world that we insist must be changed gradually through more education and more involvement- is a very young experiment that has been an obvious failure for the majority of its existence.

This kind of policing and incarceration system that has made America the biggest jailer in the world, ahead of Communist China and Russia, did not really exist 100 years ago. We could throw the entire damn thing away tomorrow and be better off. And eventually we will figure that out and we will do so. Tell the police chief it's not safe to have his weekly meeting when that happens.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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Being charged doesn't mean that justice will be served.

Ten to one says that the judges will let them off just like in the Rodney King beating. I'll just up the fire insurance for my office.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by VforVendettea
 


At least he has been charged, one step to getting Justice for Kelly Thomas.


So what about the other officers who were involved?



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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All this is, is a case where they knew they could not deny the fact that these cops where wrong. this is what it takes for a criminal cop to be charged 150+ people saying they beat him to death 4 cameras along wwith multiple cell phone video. oh a coreners report stating the obvious.

with out all that folks if you ever get in a confrontation with your local p.d. pray cause you might end up with them taking your life all the while your peers watch and do nothing.

And i still do not for the life of me understand, why no one did nothing about it that was there. i understand nobody wants to be thrown in jail or even beat up. but thats a human being i couldnt stand there while that was going on. there would have been 2 dead people on this day i simply couldnt stand by while these evil men steal the life slowly away from this poor man.

if that would have been a black group of teens or hispanic's sagging their jeans who did that to a cop better believe they wouldnt be alive.

America where you can walk free and spend that cash so long as you:

not homless...cause they dont count right.
conform
dont stand out
dont talk back
and so on and so forth.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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Great to see the second-degree murder charge but a similar story happened a year ago here in Baltimore:

articles.baltimoresun.com...

Drunk cop shoots an unarmed Marine outside of a bar/club and is charged with second degree murder. However, the charge is eventually downgraded to voluntary manslaughter. I hope what happened here in Baltimore does not happen in California and the charges are not reduced.

It is strange to me that the DA was able to charge two of the officers, one with murder, yet the other 4 are not accessories? I'm not sure if they ever struck him but they were involved and did not try to stop it.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
The DA said one very important thing in his press conference that I've been saying for years, and people have always looked at me like I'm crazy. "You have a right to defend yourself from a police officer". I plan to quote that man to police quite a bit now.


Man, if you already suspect you will have to use that line to police officers "quite a bit now", you must have some serious issues! Who has multiple (if any) threatening encounters with police? Let's see. My encounters with police in the last 10 years? Got a speeding ticket last year. That about covers it!

Just odd.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi
 





It is strange to me that the DA was able to charge two of the officers, one with murder, yet the other 4 are not accessories? I'm not sure if they ever struck him but they were involved and did not try to stop it.


exactly !! Something is very wrong with this picture.. and the report.. !!! and NOT one officer called to request a sargent to be there.. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

2nd to be sure



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by usernameconspiracy
 


a cop tried to rape my mom when I was young and we had to leave town to get away from retaliation when she went public. Im a good guy- a marine, a security guard, used to be a redcross volunteer. I know some radicals and ive had to run from cops before but im hardly a criminal. Im just not on the club that runs this society, and when theres a dispute my place in society is on the short end of the stick... and im angry about it.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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Thank goodness they were charged!
However...

If convicted of all charges, Ramos could face a maximum sentence of 15 years to life in prison. Cicinelli could face a maximum sentence of four years if convicted.

msnbc

Still seems a bit light, and that's if they are convicted on all charges.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by Oaktree
 


Those prison years will be like dog years to a cop.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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So it takes a large public outrage and then maybe a judge will do his job one time for one person. I'm supposed to be happy about that? No.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Observer99
 

It's taken decades for society to get this screwed up. It won't be fixed over night by any stretch, but each step forward is a positive at this point. Enough little steps will add up if people just keep pushing back and don't go back to sleep.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by InshaAllah
 


Some of you guys simply amaze me....

Only a ME / Coroner can determine an offical cause of death, regardless of how transparent it is.

Or would you rather the police to have that ability, since it would make it easier to cover stuff up in the world you have them in.

You guys really need to quit being paranoid and seeing conspiraicies in everything.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Oaktree
Thank goodness they were charged!
However...

If convicted of all charges, Ramos could face a maximum sentence of 15 years to life in prison. Cicinelli could face a maximum sentence of four years if convicted.

msnbc

Still seems a bit light, and that's if they are convicted on all charges.


People need to remeber that these are local / state charges. They are still subject to federal charges for violating 42 USC 1983, which will carry more prison time in the Federal system.

Its not overwith yet.



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