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Did zombies roam medieval Ireland?

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posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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Just a litle strange article i stumpled upon.
At an archaeological digsite in ireland, two skeleton where found with large stones forced in to their mouths.


Two early medieval skeletons were unearthed recently in Ireland with large stones wedged into their mouths — evidence, archaeologists say, that it was feared the individuals would rise from their graves like zombies.





Kind of a wierd way to put people to rest.
I wonder whats really been going on, but zombies is a litlle bit over the top imo.

Anyway, here is the article.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Add text from:www.dailymail.co.uk...

The belief that zombies can return from the grave as living dead has its roots in Haitian culture, where it is linked to voodoo magic and witchcraft. The superstition is so strong on the Caribbean island that relatives of the dead will dismember a corpse so that it cannot return as a zombie. Others will stand guard over a grave to protect the body until decomposition has set in. According to believers, a zombie will rise up from its grave in a hypnotic trance, capable of responding to stimuli but lacking self-awareness. Initially, archaeologists believed the ritual of placing a stone in the mouth may have related to vampire slayings, where a stake is driven into the heart of a victim.

Vampires were believed to spread plague and a stone placed inside the mouth was thought to prevent this. Practitioners also believed that placing a stone in the mouth of a corpse would starve it. In 2009, the remains of a 60-year-old woman with a rock thrust in her mouth were discovered in a mass grave from the 1500s on the Venetian island of Lazzaretto Nuovo.

But vampire culture did not evolve until the 16th Century and therefore does not explain why stones were found in skeletons dating from the eighth century. 'In this case, the stones in the mouth might have acted as a barrier to stop revenants from coming back from their graves,' Dr Read said. According to the archeologist, the mouth 'was viewed as the main portal for the soul to leave the body upon death'. 'Sometimes, the soul could come back to the body and re-animate it or else an evil spirit could enter the body through the mouth and bring it back to life," he said.


edit on 21-9-2011 by Mianeye because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-9-2011 by Mianeye because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-9-2011 by Mianeye because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-9-2011 by Mianeye because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-9-2011 by Mianeye because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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very interesting. S&F
I wonder if its some sort of afterlife punishment to not allow the soul to escape and go to the after life


Eta (from the link)


The mouth was seen as a key part of the body for such a transformation. "It was viewed as the main portal for the soul to leave the body upon death. Sometimes, the soul could come back to the body and re-animate it or else an evil spirit could enter the body through the mouth and bring it back to life,"


Personally I lean towards a punishment
edit on 21/9/11 by Versa because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by Mianeye
 


Awww and here I was thinking it was the begining of the Zombie Apocolyps... Pretty effective way to stop a zombie from spreading the Zombification doober/virus/curse



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by Mianeye
 


So many threads like this coming up, It actually started as vampires. Apparently the some dead were believed to rise and spread diseases so the stones were places in their mouths.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:21 AM
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LOL I love zombies!

What do they say? An ounce of prevention goes a long way? or something



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:22 AM
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I think you can find a lot more than 2 zombies walking round present day Ireland right now, just a walk down Dublin high street should prove fruitful



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by Mianeye
 


It wasn't that they were feared as zombies, they were feared as being vampires. Watched a show about it the other night, was quite interesting actually ;-)



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by Mianeye
 


I saw a documentary on these recently. There were more than just two bodies found, apart from the two with stones in their mouths, there were mutilated skeletons with he skulls smashed in, and one gruesome body found, knotted around a large boulder. Apparently they are from the early middle ages, when the introduction of christianity caused a surge in folkloric beliefs in these 'revenants'.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:42 AM
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I think the reason why these archaeologists ruled out fear of vampires, namely, this phenomenon only appeared in Europe in the 1500s, is rather weak and begs the question that this was not such a case. Just because there are no written records surviving from the 8th century of people being suspected of being vampires does not mean that there were not such suspected cases then. Calling them "zombies" instead is mere semantic sleight-of-hand. Bricks were put in the mouth for good reason - to stop the resuscitated body from eating because the buried individual was believed to be a vampire that fed off human blood. The concept of "zombies" was probably not even known to the 8th century Irish, as it stems largely from Haiti. Despite not having any written records from the 8th century that talk about zombies specifically, it did not stop these archaeologists from speculating about them.

It seems to me that the archaeologists and anthropologists involved with this dig display some confused thinking. It is typical academic thinking when confronted with an anomaly. The evidence stares them in the face but - because they have no written evidence to support the implied interpretation - they chose some more outlandish explanation that does not really make much sense in the circumstances, quite apart from not having any historical evidence to support the speculation


So why attribute this to belief in zombies rather than vampires when there is no scientific evidence that either phenomenon was believed in during the 8th century?
edit on 21-9-2011 by micpsi because: typo corrected



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by Mianeye
 


Your title is deceptive. The remains are not "zombies", the stones were just placed in their mouths because superstition was that their spirits could re-enter their bodies and re-animate them. It didn't mean the remains were literally of a zombie. You need to work on your titles some, you make it sound too much like a tabloid and not like science.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 09:22 AM
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The title is misguided,but this is still one interesting thread!

Just for the record,if your title have some amazing name,it doesn't mean the thread will be popular!


S&F!



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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To the two above
You are right, and i am sorry


Changed to fit the article's headline.

edit on 21-9-2011 by Mianeye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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How the Firetruck is a stone in the mouth gonna stop a zombie


Everyone knows the only way to stop a Zombie is to either chop its head off and it dies instantly or cut all its limbs off so it cant hunt for the brains it needs to survive.

I call this thread disinfo at best but downright dangerous and irresponsible is more fitting. We should all be teaching our children how to wield a chainsaw or shoot a shotgun before the Zombie apocalypse begins not talking utter nonsense about rocks in the mouth.

Shame on you OP



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 
I disagree with the chainsaw and shotgun, we should throw rocks, and aim for the mouth
Now go practice with your children, and you can be the zombie



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 07:25 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


Maybe back then, you COULD stop a zombie by just putting a stone in its mouth - but since then, zombies have got better at...whatever they do, and/or got harder to kill


edit on 21/9/2011 by Kolya because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 08:02 AM
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We are zombie fanatics at my house. My son loves them, and we talk about what we would do in a zombie apocolypse, trying to one up each other (like my mom always said, "First liar never had a chance").

I have a bumper magnet that says, "My zombie child ate your honor students brain." His back pack is covered with zombies. I have made zombie avatars for him to use on ATS in the past, actually.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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I'd disagree with the assessment by the archaeologists. One way to silence people is to place a large rock in their mouth, if your hands are tied it becomes impossible to remove it. I'd say they were silenced then executed.

This method has been used by tribal people to whom cloth and textiles were rare, and certainly wouldn't be used for a gag - while rocks are very plentiful.

One will note the two were found together



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune
I'd disagree with the assessment by the archaeologists. One way to silence people is to place a large rock in their mouth, if your hands are tied it becomes impossible to remove it. I'd say they were silenced then executed.

This method has been used by tribal people to whom cloth and textiles were rare, and certainly wouldn't be used for a gag - while rocks are very plentiful.

One will note the two were found together

Hans is a sadist, everybody!

Harte



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Hanslune
I'd disagree with the assessment by the archaeologists. One way to silence people is to place a large rock in their mouth, if your hands are tied it becomes impossible to remove it. I'd say they were silenced then executed.

This method has been used by tribal people to whom cloth and textiles were rare, and certainly wouldn't be used for a gag - while rocks are very plentiful.

One will note the two were found together

Hans is a sadist, everybody!

Harte


Well my colleagues, soldiers, employees and students might agree with you

I dug up/out a body once at tthe bottom of a well in Cyprus. His mouth had a nice piece of pottery (whole) in it. Which reminded me of this
edit on 23/9/11 by Hanslune because: Added clarity



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


A thought occurred to me regarding this today.... Well two thoughts actually (one more pleasant than the other)

1. There was a really horrible scene in a movie ( i forget which, maybe 'romper stomper'?) where there was a really horrible murder scene which involved a kerb, a mouth and a head stamp.... That might support your theory....

2. When a Child is born a midwife has to remove mucus from the infants mouth in order for the child to begin to breathe (maybe perceived as letting in the soul) and this might support my theory....







 
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