Just a thought on Lucifer.

They call Lucifer the Prince of Lies. A lie is defined by the Christian as anything which contradicts the Word of God - as told to us by the Bible and God's representatives on Earth. If we accept this definition of a lie then we should praise lies. A "lie" is then a questioning of blind dogma. The "lies" of Lucifer are attacks on irrational beliefs, beliefs based on fear and conformity to authority. Of course we should not call these lies. They are temptations to think for ourselves, a call for independent thought, a plea for taking responsibility for our own thinking and our own lives. Praise Lucifer! Praise the pursuit of truth through rationality. God was right to tell us to not worship false idols, but he refrained from telling us that all idols are false, and that all worship is dangerous. Even our praise of Lucifer must not be worship of an idol, but rather an expression of our agreement with his value-orientation and his perspective.

God and his Godists hate Lucifer's call for rationality. Critical thinking digs at the very roots of God's and their power over our minds. Independent thinkers do not make good slaves. Lucifer is the Prince of Lies because he is an expert at helping us to be rational. He shows us how to use our intelligence and how to take responsibility for ourselves. We should emulate him in encouraging this trend in ourselves and in others. He needs help since he is working against the laziness and neuroticism of many humans. It's so much easier to just not try to think, to sit back and let other people tell you what you should do, what to believe, and where to give your money. Why, if I had to think for myself I would have to face the fact that I might be wrong. Horrors! I would have to think carefully about my life and the reality that I live in carefully and that would take a lot of work. No, it's much easier to have faith, to accept, to believe, to obey.

God also hates us to enjoy ourselves, If we let ourselves experience too much pleasure then we might lose interest in obeying him. We might start running our own lives to bring us positive rewards rather than directing ourselves to avoid his wrath. We might become focused on pursuing the positive instead of avoiding the negative. That would result in the downfall, of religious and state authority, so God has to stamp out such tendencies. He hates Lucifer who keeps turning up and tempting us to have a good time, to enjoy our lives. Adam and Eve's sin was to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. They dared to disobey a direct order which God expected them to obey without question, blindly. They acquired reason and intelligence, and an ability to decide for themselves the values that they would pursue. Ever since them humans have been uppity - always giving God trouble. Dammit, even some of the Catholics are questioning the Pope's infallibility. Well that's just tough God; some of us are going to do our best to see that humans continue to become even more difficult to handle - both by you and by your human followers on Earth - the religious authorities and the Statists.

God likes altruism, altruism understood as true self-sacrifice and not as giving up a minor value to achieve a more important one (which is just one aspect of rationality). If God can just get us all to be good altruists then we will be so much easier to control. Altruists do what they are told without complaint; a complaint would be based in self-interest; it would be a claim to live one's own life without having to direct it towards the lives of others or towards the interests of God or "the State". Lucifer perseveres in trying to point out to us that we have no reason to accept altruism. We can choose our values for ourselves, just as we can think for ourselves. Lucifer himself values the pursuit of happiness, knowledge, and new experiences. Most of all he values self-responsibility and independence even if that means that some people will not choose to value the things that he values. The extropians among us who share his perspectives and value- orientation should help him in his work.

God had a clever and nasty strategy to promote altruism and therefore obedience. He tries to get us to believe in Original Sin. He wants us to believe that we are born sinful, that we were evil and needed saving even before we had done anything. We need God and his agents to save us from Sin otherwise we will burn FOREVER and we will miss out on an infinite and perfect reward (though he never tells us just what this is). Our path to salvation lies in service to God, selfless self-sacrificial service to God and his dogma. Without the idea of original sin we might not be so careful to obey God since we might figure that we were living pretty well and would go to heaven anyway (foolishly failing to inquire what heaven is like). Fortunately for God, Original Sin guarantees that we will always feel under threat. We will always be unclean and in danger of suffering hellfire.

To make quite sure that our personal responsibility is destroyed, and that we put ourselves in God's hands for him to mold us as he wishes, God and his moronic minions repeatedly tells us that Jesus Christ is the Way and that he died for our sins. Redemption lies through faith and obedience. Notice what happens when Christ supposedly died for our sins. His act brought about our possibility of salvation. What I want to know is: how can someone else's act excuse me from anything? I am responsible for my own actions. Nothing that I do can take away the fact that someone else acting in a certain way, and nothing that they can do can absolve me of my own responsibility. Original Sin and salvation by Christ are both deeply offensive ideas to me and to all extropians who value individual responsibility.

In ending this discussion, I want to remind you that you are all Popes. You are all you own highest authority. You are the source of your action. You choose your values - whether you do so actively or by default. You choose what to believe, how strongly to believe, and what you will take as dis-confirming evidence. No one has authority over you - you are your own authority, your own value-chooser, your own thinker. Join me, join Lucifer, and join Entropy in fighting God and his entropic forces with our minds, our wills, and our courage. God's army is strong, but they are backed by ignorance, fear, and cowardice. Reality is fundamentally on our side. Forward into the light!

reply to post by NZkraw


good post.
i don't know if any of these "gods" exist. but it sure is interesting to read.

-subfab

i dont know why,

but i kept thinking of lawyers as i read this.

anyways, lucifer is a latin word/name that means light-bringer. to me, lucifer is the romanized version of Mahasutra or Prometheus derived from greek/vedic scriptures.

It is true that people need to take responsibility of their own destinies and stop giving their power away to other forces. Self Empowerment is the key, but there is no need to admire Lucifer, or even reference to this being, he/she is just a tool of the religions. I know it sounds cool and rebellious but there is no need... just know how to empower yourself and start taking responsibility for your own lives. There is no battle against God, it is really a battle with oneself.

Good idea's, and some nice commentry on the stupidity of religion.
I do however have one little comment I want to make. That is you go on about rationality and logic when it goes on about belief and obedience to god, but you then go on to say Praise Lucifer.
How can you argue for non belief in God but then belief in Lucifer? it makes no sense. And by acknowledging lucifer you also by default have to acknowledge opposite number the christian God.

If you wish to make sensible comments against belief in christianity then stick to the scientific and logical argument which on its own is clearly a strong enough argument to totally discredit Christianity and ALL religion. There is no need to back track and undrmine your own argument by then praising Lucifer. Saying Lucifer is just a metaphor for certain ideals would be ok but claiming his existence as a real supernatural being just means u deny your original argument. Either there are gods or there are no gods you cant have both.

Don't dramatise this argument. If you want to believe Lucifer, then do it! Believe in his lies. Believe in rationality and science as it was some sort of religion and you'll be fine! As far as I'm concerned I prefer to believe what I want, and I want to believe, that Lucifer's dream of power will come to an end. Soon!
I am sorry!

reply to post by spamfish


In my argument im using Lucifer as a way to express my ideas on someone being their own 'god', Lucifer means Light-bringer, and also the Enlightened one (from Latin translations). To be enlightened means to have knowledge, Representing ourselves as our own 'Lucifer's' means were finding our own path to enlightenment, as opposed to worshiping in a organized religion such as christianity were believe in an alternate being that controls their lives. I guess what im trying to say is that you control your own life, and you can believe in an alternate god on what your preference is.

I believe in Satan (Lucifer) but i also believe in jahova. My perception of Satan is different then what those that pray to jahova think of Him.

reply to post by Astar316


Yup, you believe what you want as i will believe what i want. I wont criticize what you're sayin. But, Lucifer's dream of power is not a dream, He IS the God of our Earth.
It's ok, dont be sorry

reply to post by spamfish


Good observation...There are more threads like these. They argue against God, deny His existance or good intensions but in and between the lines you can read that the OP is dedicated to lucifer.

reply to post by zatara


Two posts above yours i said,
"I believe in Satan (Lucifer) but i also believe in jahova. My perception of Satan is different then what those that pray to jahova think of Him." Yes im dedicated to Lucifer, but that doesn't mean i deny jahovas existence. We all have our different views and causes, like yours are different to mine . But, that doesn't mean that im going to discredit your god just because i follow a different path that many people believe is wrong, it is the right path for me, even though it is literally the left-hand path. I used to follow the teaching of the other side of the path, but i wasn't brought up into christianity and i never felt that what the church was teaching me was the whole truth. The bibles are so watered down that the original stories in them have a totally different meaning then what was written and translated in the start. Thats when i started doing research on jahova, and i found my own enlightenment .

Originally posted by NZkraw

If we accept this definition of a lie then...

I don't.

reply to post by NZkraw


Up to a certain point I am with you. I belief in Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit.. and therefore in lucifer, satan or whatever name he would like to be adressed. I also belief that the teachings of the church are in some ways not how Jesus or God intended them.

The fact that there are so many different ways christians explain His word and have built churches upon that explanation says that one should find his own meaning in the word of God. Be a good person, good towards others and do not want too much...I think that this should be sufficient in the eyes of God and will help you to live your life in peace.....if you are lucky.

I do not understand why you 'go in bed' with lucifer but I respect your choice. You say that you are aware that a person can not deny the existance of the other once you belief in one of the two entities(God/lucifer). I assume that you did your homework on lucifer before you started to acknowledge him as a god. So if you did, I am surprised you still made the decision to worship him. In the word of God ..the Bible...the references of lucifer are not very good.

I did not and do not have an easy life and I am aware that it is nothing compared to the tragedy and unfortune some people had or have to endure in their lives....I can imagine that someone with nothing but unhappiness would blame God and choose lucifer for some fortunate change. If God is aware of this persons unhappy struggle in life, why would He not give this person a fortunate brake?

There is this story in the Bible about a guy named Job...nothing but trouble happens to this guy. God sometimes appears to be an idiot, sociopath, criminal, mass murderer and anything bad you can think of but because He is God and because His love for you is true, you can and should trust Him....someway, somehow it is all for you to become the person you are meant to be.

Yeah,...yeah...I know,...easier said than done...And maybe you do not have the wish to become the person God had in mind...Fair enough...But then you should also accept the consequences which your choice will bring allong. According to the Bible there are these rules for human souls....it comes down to being admitted to heaven or not......and go 'some place else'.

What heaven or that 'some place else' is, is up for debate but you can imagine that the 'some place else' is not a reward to look forward to. Maybe there is the option to have your soul exterminated...you know.....true death.

This hell thing is another subject in the Bible I have a hard time to accept and belief. What God would sent a person to some prison so he can suffer untill hell freezes over? This is probably one of the church' invention to scare people into their pocketbooks or a tool to manipulate them.

Anyways...good luck with your thread.

Originally posted by NZkraw
reply to post by zatara

 

Two posts above yours i said,
"I believe in Satan (Lucifer) but i also believe in jahova. My perception of Satan is different then what those that pray to jahova think of Him." Yes im dedicated to Lucifer, but that doesn't mean i deny jahovas existence. We all have our different views and causes, like yours are different to mine

. But, that doesn't mean that im going to discredit your god just because i follow a different path that many people believe is wrong, it is the right path for me, even though it is literally the left-hand path. I used to follow the teaching of the other side of the path, but i wasn't brought up into christianity and i never felt that what the church was teaching me was the whole truth. The bibles are so watered down that the original stories in them have a totally different meaning then what was written and translated in the start. Thats when i started doing research on jahova, and i found my own enlightenment

.

You state that you are not going to discredit another persons God... And yet your entire thread is knocks against Yahweh. Knocks against the true God used to justify your dedication and faith in Lucifer, the fallen angel kicked out of Heaven by Yahweh.
Also, why didn't you just state that you were a worshipper of Lucifer in your original post? The reason is because your entire thread is just a knock against your perceptions of Yahweh - the lies that Lucifer used to deceive you.
Lucifer is Satan.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Why do you troll on my posts if you only have negative things to say about my opinions....?

reply to post by NZkraw


Luciferianism has grabbed my interest recently. I'm not the kind of woman that will dedicate my soul to anyone, but i'm always firm in the belief that there's two sides to every story. And i agree with NZKraw's opening post about the hypocrasy of Yaweh. Who said he's the one God? Only he did, in a book that was edit and adapted throughout the ages, or had pieces removed to fit human agendas . What if that's not true. What is there's others.

I always find that 'the only way to heaven is through accepting Jesus' crap almost sickening. So according to Christians (including my mother in law) even if i'm the nicest person ever and don't commit any sins i still go to hell anyway. Yeah lovely God you've got there.

I also think Lucifer may have been Enki and along with his brother Enlil (perhaps Satan cause i'm not convinced Lucifer and Satan are the same being) created man in THEIR image, as the bible says. This is why they were made to fall (someone got a bit pissed off that man could think for himself and was not just a slave), why they rule the earth and why man hungers for knowledge and god-like abilities (which we do have within us all). Lucifer gave man the ability to learn, to understand, to grow, to improve, to think for his/herself. Seems we have something to thank the serpent for.

What does Yahweh do? Kicks the dummy out of the pram and curses Adam and Eve, the earth and creation.

No Christian has managed to answer to me yet who the people were that lived outside of the garden of eden after Adam and Eve were banished and where they came from. Could i be these were already children of Lucifer? Food for thought.

God hates us to enjoy ourselves? What? Having morals and doing the right things does not equal suffering and misery.

reply to post by NZkraw

A lie is defined by the Christian as anything which contradicts the Word of God - as told to us by the Bible and God's representatives on Earth.

Source?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

A lie is defined by the Christian as anything which contradicts the Word of God - as told to us by the Bible and God's representatives on Earth.

Check out my other thread 'Satanists are not evil -neither is Satan' and read a few of the comments. Quite a few were telling me that what i was lying, because what i was saying is going against their bible, and their god.