The vedic civilization and evolution of society in India

Originally posted by vedatruth
reply to post by YouAreDreaming

 

The sub-conscious mind does contain learning of the soul, and that can well into conscious mind during dreams.

Yes, dreams are largely a sub-conscious process involving a lot of work to participate in them consciously. Which is really a pain if you ask me, I certainly enjoy being conscious during my dreams, but that is less common then when I am actually dreaming unconsciously. At any rate, the conscious moments are quite something. Amazing really.

Originally posted by vedatruth
Generally people do not remember previous lives. This is the way God has made humans, and there is a very good reason for it. Human life is very rare, and only human form has the freedom of action. Animals and plants do not have freedom of action, so they cannot do good deeds. Humans can perform action to reduce/burn sins by appropriate actions. But there is so much pain endured by the soul in previous lives, that any such memory will inhibit the capability of a human to do good deeds. You know psychopaths, who become perverted due to their bad experiences.

Well, my memories are quite intriguing at least at this stage in my life. I'll summarize just to give context, my last life, I lived as a person who was sent to war. My Uncle owned a barber shop, and we use to sit outside on the sidewalk and play cards. Lot's of the memories became fragmented, like a mirror shattering when I died. It was not exactly pleasant, because I died from most likely a head-shot. When I was dying, I remember hearing the blood dripping next to my ear, which was the last sounds I heard before the body shut off, almost like a cathode-tube TV turning off.

Then I awoken looking over the battle-field and this being of light came down and grabbed me, lifted me through these layers and after a small tour sent me back against my wishes. Well... that is now this life.

Originally posted by vedatruth
There are some people with developed "intuition", who can 'feel' future events. I would not say 'see', as nobody can see future events, not even the Rishis.

Oh no, these are not feelings. They are very vivid dreams that later days, weeks, months even years come true exactly how I remember dreaming them. Very literal events. It's uncanny because my logical mind insists that such is impossible. How can a dream convey a future event with such detail that even the conversations, the clothing, the event... is the same.

It is quite literally a dream that later comes true. My research into this revealed that even in 350BC Aristotle debated the reality of this phenomena, it was known to the Greeks at that time as people talked about it. More modern research has been ongoing since 1888 with the Society for Psychical Research (SPR).

This is a very real phenomena and even Abe Lincoln dreamed about his assassination before it happened. Author Mark Twain dreamed about his brother Henry's funeral in literal detail weeks before his brother died. There are lots of accounts of this in the historic record.

Originally posted by vedatruth
Please let me know if I can help in any way in your learning process.

Absolutely...

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


You have a very developed "intuition". You are a special person.
You should not waste your life. You should get initiated ASAP.
How old are you?

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You can get another human life sequentially if you died an un-natural death, and your quota of breathes is not exhausted.

If somebody gets initiated by a Rishi in Yoga, he will get human life sequentially until he either stops practicing / or achieves the target.

But generally it is very rare. Most people get to lower life forms (I would say at least 99.99%) of animals.

Originally posted by hadriana
reply to post by vedatruth

 

People would be amazed if they knew that there was a time in which most people did live in harmony, and in the spirit of cooperation, and lawfulness and even the animals were cared for in what today would be called free clinics. People certainly never went without care. Yes, medical knowledge was very advanced- not just medicine, but diagnostics.
There are tons of medical texts that NEED to be translated.

I appreciate your views. I shall post an article on this subject.

Medical care was not free but it was rarely needed.
People did not get sick.
War was very uncommon.

The "Vaidya" (doctors) practiced in major cities of Bharat. Villages did not have "Vaidya".

Vedic society depended very heavily on advice of Sanyaasi - specially in the villages. Sanyaasi were the glue that held it together.

Now when I say Sanyaasi - most people in India will show ridicule. This is how times change.

Originally posted by vedatruth
reply to post by YouAreDreaming

 

You have a very developed "intuition". You are a special person.
You should not waste your life. You should get initiated ASAP.
How old are you?

Are you asking relative to how I perceive myself as a dreamer, or as a human. The human side of me is 39 years old, but the dreamer in me. I can't seem to place age. I just realize it's ancient. I respect that part of myself.

Originally posted by vedatruth
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You can get another human life sequentially if you died an un-natural death, and your quota of breathes is not exhausted.

If somebody gets initiated by a Rishi in Yoga, he will get human life sequentially until he either stops practicing / or achieves the target.

But generally it is very rare. Most people get to lower life forms (I would say at least 99.99%) of animals.

It's a lot to consider, this idea of many lifetimes. This suggests that even right now, I have lived and breathed as some other living human on Earth. Think about the implications of being more then one human on Earth? What does that really mean about life on the planet?

This is really an important idea, because in my experiences this is a fact. Not a belief, but a real tangible truth.

When I look at this system of reincarnation, and I see myself. I realize that the self that I see is important to the bigger picture of a whole Universe that I am a part of. We are incarnating as a self, that is in all reality at all times.

It's astronomically hard to understand, but suffice to say it suggests a oneness, an interconnectedness with reality at a level that may be hard to perceive in each individual lifetime, but literal in every lifetime.

The self.

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming

It's a lot to consider, this idea of many lifetimes. This suggests that even right now, I have lived and breathed as some other living human on Earth. Think about the implications of being more then one human on Earth? What does that really mean about life on the planet?

Each human takes birth with a fixed number of breath ('shvaas' and 'prshwaas'). Pranayam is a Yogic method to increase the time of each breath, so that a Yogi can slow down the ageing process. A Yogi can slowly increase the breath time to even an hour or more. A Yogi can be so still during 'Dhyaan' that he may appear to be almost dead.

Brahmcharya is considered very important for Yoga. (Staying away from even a thought of sex), as it is considered to increase lifespan. It is also a necessary rqeuirement for Yoga to be successful.

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The number of people on earth increase and decrease due to several factors. What is important is to improve self's good karma, so that one gets another human life - one more chance to get closer to God.

Eight stages of Yoga

Yoga has eight stages, like a step ladder. You have to master the first stage to be able to get to the second, and so on.

Stage 1 - Yama - has five rules
Rule 1 - Ahinsa - Not killing/hurting other jeev for food, or pleasure
Rule 2 - Satya - Being truthful
Rule 3 - Asteya - Shun stealing
Rule 4 - Brahmcharya - Preservation of Veerya (semen) (applicable to woman also, basically stay away from sexual activity)
Rule 5 - Aparigrah - Do not have possessions beyond what is required (Yogi is allowed only very few basic items)

Stage 2 - Niyam - also has five rules
Rule 1 - Shauch - keeping the body and mind clean
Rule 2 - Santosh - Satisfaction with one's situation (no envy)
Rule 3 - Tapa - Act according to dharm
Rule 4 - Swadhyaya - Study of Veda, Upnishand and Shashtra
Rule 5 - Ishwar Pranidhanam - Unfailing trust in God

Stage 3 - Asan - Art of sitting in a still position for hours (without discomfort)
Stage 4 - Pranayam - Art of controlling breathing
Stage 5 - Pratyahaar - Control of 11 indriya (eyes, ears, nose, skin, tongue - sensory organs; hand, feet, 'upasth' (organ of urine), rectum, speech - organs of action, and mind)
Stage 6 - Dharnaa - Focussing attention on one of centers of energy in body like 'nabhi', 'hriday' etc. (requires training from Master)
Stage 7 - Dhyaan - Focussing on God (name of God, qualities of God) while completely detaching from physical world
Stage 8 - Samadhi - The last stage when soul loses all karmas and become pure.

The Aryan Invasion Theory

The British invented 'Aryan invasion theory' which said that Vedic people came from outside Bharat and subjugated local people.

This theory is false. The fact is just the opposite. The Arya of Bharat are the original inhabitants of this country who have lived here for millions of years. This country saw waves of immigration from West Asia, Central Asia, and other places of NON-Arya people, beginning roughly 5000 years ago, who largely assimilated in the local culture before the arrival of Islam.

The immigration and mixing of foreigners with the locals affected the makeup of population, with the most visible impact on the north-west part of Bharat (the entry point of migration).

The Brahmin and Kshatriya classes seem to have higher percentage of west asian blood for a very simple reason - the culture of polygamy. Newcomers took advantage of local customs, and forged alliances with the ruling class by offering girls in marriage. Over time (on a scale of several thousand years), this tilted the makeup of some people towards west asian gene pool in certain regions of Bharat.

Oral traditions say that there was a remarkable lack of warfare in Bharat for 2000 years after the Mahabharat war. So this country became a shelter for all kind of people, who fled their home country due to war and persecution.

I have personally talked to so many people, and many castes of India have clear memory of migration from Assyria, and other such far off places long time back. These people are Hindu now, but no reason to believe they were Hindu when they came to this country.

Are Persians Aryan

The language and some customs of Persians were borrowed from culture of Bharat. People need to remember that Bharat was a center of learning in the ancient world, and people came from far off places to get educated.

But Pesians cannot be Arya, as they have no culture of learning of Veda, the main book of religion of Arya.

The customs and rituals of Zorastrian religion do not match those of Vedic religion.

The fact is civilization of West Asia first developed in Babylonia and Assyria, and then these people radiated to lands now called Persia.

The people of Bharat did not immigrate. This is the reason of the situation that we see today.

It is the same as happening to USA now, as people of all other countries migrate to USA, but Americans rarely migrate elsewhere.

reply to post by vedatruth


It was not Vedic society that I was referring to, it was India's social progress under Asoka's reign.
Amazing stuff - but when I went to school - and college - everytime we got to a chapter on India, we were told "You'll get this in college, let's skip this." In college, they said "This is for another course, we'll skip this"

And that's what happens to all Eastern Culture - at least for me - the teachers do not know it, so they can't teach it, so even though it might be in the textbooks, we are told to skip it, as if it is not important.
To me it is like studying math with only positive numbers.

Temples, mortal gods, and magic

This topic is deeply related to the most fascinating place in the ancient world - Egypt.

The seaport found submerged off coast of Gujarat (near Bet-Dwarka) is a reminder of trade with Egypt before the Biblical flood, which submerged the port.

There were several ports in Gujarat and Sindh that were entry points for Egyptian boats.

The clay seals found in Mohanjodaro and Lothal give evidence of writing similar to Egyptian, which was never used in Bharat.

I believe that Egyptian traders brought their ideas of temples and mortal gods to Bharat, which was a monotheistic country and had no temples at all.

My research is based on origin of my own community, which I believe to have originated from an Egyptian trader. This trader married a local girl and set up a family. But he was not accepted into the local society. His lineage resulted in a separate community from the local class system and remains to this day. I believe this trader to have arrived roughly 5000 years ago.

The center of Vedic Civilization

The center of Vedic civilization has always been in the indo-gangetic plain for millions of years.

The capital city of Bharat has always been near rivers Ganga and Yamuna, at least from the founding of city of Ayodhya by ancestors of Ram.

The capital city of Hastinapur of Kuru, and capital city of Indraprasth of Pandavas are near the modern city of Delhi.

The geographical area of Bharat stretched from Kashmir in the north, Eastern Afghanistan in the north-west, Pakistani states of Punjab and Sindh in the west, Vindhya mountains in the south, Orissa, Bengal and Assam in the East.

The southern India was populated by descendants of people of kingdom of Lanka (at the time of Krsna), who were under the authority of king of Bharat, since Rama's defeat of Ravana in the Ramayan war.

I was looking for more proof against the caste system. So here it is:


Yo-andhitya dwijo vedam-anyatra kurute shramam |
Sa jivananen shudratvamashu gachati sanvayaha || (Manusmriti)


Meaning:
Dwij (A person who got vedic education) who stops following Veda becomes a Shudra alongwith his family.

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This is a very powerful statement against the caste system. It says that even if you got a Vedic education, you would still be called a Shudra if you do not live upto it.

Caste system originates from a desire of a father to see his son do the same as him. There is always attachment of father to son, which is natural as both live in the same family.

Vedic system was designed to BREAK this father-son bond, and establish 'DHARMA' by educating children in residential schools AWAY from family.

A student did not go back to his family even on vacation. The student always stayed with the Guru, and Guru became his father. Parents had to come to the Ashram to meet him, if they so desired.

People who are unaware of Vedic system, just cannot understand how smart Arya were in designing their social systems. When you deeply study Vedic society, you will be stuck by how ideal it is, that it can only be created if God wished it so. No man can create such an ideal society.

Arya Society - No Slavery

An Arya can never even think of slavery, the most heinous crime a human can ever do.

A person who keeps slaves and/or enslaves people is on a shortcut to hell.

All workers were paid according to wages fixed by the King. Even the price of essential commodities like grain and firewood was fixed by the King, so that nobody could profiteer.

All families in Vedic society lived in their own own houses, whether rich or poor. The king ensured that every family's basic needs were met.

Loans and usury

The Veda prescribes an annual interest (simple, non-cumulative) rate of between 6 and 16% for loans made. Any interest charged above 16% is usury, and is punishable by the king.

The loan is considered paid if at least the principal amount is paid (cumulative of instalments), and the debtor falls into a situation when he can pay no more. A lender has to forego his claim in such a case.

The loan cannot go beyond a certain time period (~20 years). If not paid in that time period, it lapses.

A lender cannot foreclose on the home of the debtor. A lender has equal responsibility of a loan made as a debtor. So predatory lending is prohibited.

If a debtor is unable to pay, the lender can obtain a King's order directing the debtor to work for him in lieu of the debt. But he has to deduct the debt as per fixed wages. And the rule of maximum lifespan of a debt applies when the loan is considered paid.

reply to post by vedatruth


This seems like the King is the Fed. Except one notable difference: the debtor cannot be foreclosed on.

Rules for Marriage

Veda is against inbreeding.

a. Kings are advised to marry a girl from outside their kingdom.

b. Marriage with near relatives is not allowed to anybody.

c. Marriage within same village (town) is also not allowed. I remember the '20 kosa' rule from childhood, though I am searching for that in the scripture. The 20 kosa rule is that villages of bride and bridegroom should be at least 20 kosa apart. (kosa is a unit of measurement of distance like mile).

d. Marriages are always 'arranged' by the family of the bride and the bridegroom. There is no concept of 'love' in Vedic culture. Boys and girls were segregated as a tradition, due to strict adherence to 'brahmcharya'. However this segregation is not like Muslims where women are literally imprisoned. Women were properly dressed and covered their head (not face) when in a public place. They attended school, agnihotra, yagna, etc. They went to market for shopping sometimes though men did most of the shopping. Some women were advisors in the court of King. But generally women tended to the household. Farm workers, artisans, soldiers, etc. were men.

e. Women have active participation in sanskar ceremonies of a child, where they are an indispensable part.

The importance of child birth (Sanskar / Education)

Children are given extreme importance in the Vedic system. The entire continuity of Vedic culture centered on upbringing of children.

Every aspect of a child is pre-planned and laid down in the scripture - from conception till marriage - very elaborately.

A child is NOT an accident of passion, but a desire of parents to have a child, who will continue the line of family and nation.

The first sanskar 'Garbhadhan' is done BEFORE the planned conception, where a yagna is organized in which a 'Ritvij' (A learned man - rishi, muni, sanyaasi, tapasvi) is present. It is the SELECTION of the right soul that enters the womb of the woman that is the crux of the matter.

The Vedic sanskar are meant to attarct pious souls to take birth on Earth, and then providing these souls the right education and physical strength to become giants of dharma. This is the reason Vedic culture lasted so long, and is still not dead despite all efforts of the Devil to do so.

The Moneychangers

In these times of financial stress, it is important to understand the vedic system of money. Because money is central to commerce, and thus well-being of the families.

Entire Bharat had a single system of coinage. There was no stamping of a kingdom's seal on the coin. The value of the coin was value of the metal. Bharat's coins were money in entire Asia and Egypt.

The differential in buying power is the basis of trade. If a gold coin buys 20 bags of wheat in Egypt, but only ten in Bharat, there is an incentive for an Egyptian trader to buy wheat in Egypt and sell in Bharat. This is absolutely logical and valid. Each region or country has some crop/objects in plenty while others in shortage, which determine their relative price. The plentiful object is exported whileas short object is imported. This has been true for millions of years on Earth. Trade is nothing new.

Egyptians were skilled artisans and the jewellery made by them was in high demand in Bharat. There was import of jewellery in Bharat from Egypt. This fact can be confirmed by objects found in the trading towns of Mohanjodaro and Lothal, and many others. In fact there were a lot of inland river ports at the time of Krsna, which were suitable for commerce by boat. The ancient town of Rupanagar in northern Punjab is one such town, that was a center of trade.

Agnimeede purohitam yajnasya devam-ritvijam | Hotaram ratnadhatamam || (Rigveda 1/1/1)

Agni - Ishwar (God)
Eede - desire
Purohit - the one who oversees the yajna, normally a Rishi
Yajna - pious actions (karma) of man as per Veda
Deva - Who gives, a pious person (expert of Veda) who gives knowledge
Ritvij - Rishi, muni, tapasvi, sanyaasi
Hotar - The expert of science & engineering (for example, who can build useful devices like vehicles, weapons etc.)
Ratnadhatamam - the one bearing precious objects (spoken to indicate prithvi - earth)

I have tried to give a very simple meaning of this mantra. Please forgive me, as each mantra has several meanings.


God created universe because He desired a yajna (Humans performing karmas as per Veda), overseen by Purohit, Deva, Ritvij, and Hotar, on a planet full of precious objects.