Fact Check: Are rich taxed less than secretaries?

Reply to post by links234

The mob is entitled to the money?

The mob gave them their money for the mobs' needs and wants, and now the mob is crying because they don't have any money left?

Cry me an effing river.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by centurion1211
Still waiting for obama and all his fellow tax increase proponents to define for all of us what "fair share" means.

But none of them will, because they are basically cowards. They are also hypocrites

Cowards, Hypocrits??? That is what you have? name calling? Grow up. We need more adults contributing to the discussion, both in our populace and in DC.

"Fair share" means the wealthiest Americans paying an equal EFFECTIVE tax rate as the rest of the country.

As it stands, they avail themselves to countless exemptions and loopholes that have been inserted into the tax code at the behest of lobbyists and campaign contributors.

One less-noticed finding in the report is that the super rich have been paying smaller and smaller portions of their incomes to taxes.

The chart below shows the effective tax rate for the richest 400 American filers from 1992 and 2007.

The blue line represents the highest income tax bracket, the red line is the tax rate on long-term capital gains, and the orange line is the average tax rate that the richest 400 filers actually paid.

www.quickanded.com...

Originally posted by centurion1211
No, he will continue to play his nebulous class warfare game of pitting one group of Americans against another -

Only in the bizzaro world of our current political climate is asking the wealthiest to pay taxes considered "class warfare"

Where as actually calling for these items is just good ol conservative values .....

WI Only Part of GOP War on Unions
www.realclearpolitics.com...

Senate Republicans declare war on Ohio’s minimum wage
www.plunderbund.com...

NH GOP Dumps State Minimum Wage
joemygod.blogspot.com...

GOP Pres. Candidates Campaign on Demolishing Minimum Wage
www.alternet.org...

Maine Republicans seek to loosen child labor laws
www.rawstory.com...

Republican Sets Out To Repeal The Ban On Child Labor
www.politicususa.com...

Missouri GOP Wants to Repeal Child Labor Laws
www.alternet.org...

Overturning child labor laws: top priority for GOP
peoplesworld.org...

House GOP to propose welfare cuts
washingtonexaminer.com...

House Republicans Cut Food Assistance For Low-Income Families
www.huffingtonpost.com...

GOP Poised To Cut Food Aid For Pregnant Women, Children
www.huffingtonpost.com...

GOP Cuts To Food Aid For Seniors And Food Banks Equals One Day Of Bush Tax Cuts For Millionaires
thinkprogress.org...

GOP cuts target food aid for low-income families
www.cbsnews.com...

Republicans Chose To Keep Big Oil Subsidies, Costing Americans Billions Of Dollars
www.chattanoogan.com...

Wall Street Rules Help GOP Fill Campaign Coffers
blogs.wsj.com...

Financial Reform: Republicans Fight To Dilute Wall Street Regulations
www.huffingtonpost.com...

GOP tries to slash Wall Street law
www.politico.com...




But Pres. Obama calls to end tax breaks for the wealthy and all of a sudden it is class warfare????

Warren Buffet wa right when he said...

"“There’s class warfare, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by centurion1211
Still waiting for obama and all his fellow tax increase proponents to define for all of us what "fair share" means.

But none of them will, because they are basically cowards. They are also hypocrites

Cowards, Hypocrits??? That is what you have? name calling? Grow up. We need more adults contributing to the discussion, both in our populace and in DC.

Is that your way of saying, "Ouch!"? Guilty as charged?

As for the personal insult, my response is for you to try being honest. What is your true agenda? Mine is quite clear because, unlike you, I have nothing to hide.

"Fair share" means the wealthiest Americans paying an equal EFFECTIVE tax rate as the rest of the country.

Your description of "fair share" is NOT something that could be put into a law or into the tax code. And until obama and his supporters for tax increases give us all something with real numbers that can be made into a law or added to a revised tax code, then the "cowards" label fits. And so does the class warfare charge.

And as long as these same people continue to scream for others to pay more, but exclude themselves, so does the hypocrite label.

So, where are the numbers? Until you can post real numbers, then you are intellectually no different than a beauty pageant hopeful telling the judges that she is in favor of "world peace".

reply to post by neo96


Any reach person who is paying 60% of his income in taxes needs to get a better accountant.

Everybody is confusing the nominal tax rate with the tax rate people actually pay. The nominal tax rates for the uber wealthy may be at or around 60%. However, as others have pointed out, wealthy people do not earn much "oridnary income" which is taxed at a high rate. Once you add depreciation and other deductions, NOL carryovers, credits, and other goodies, the tax rate starts to sink. This is why Warren Buffet only paid about 17% of his income in taxes.

Social security withholdings also top out at about $100,000. A person that makes $110,000 a year generally pays less in income tax than a person that makes $400,000 a year or $15,000,000 a year. Those same people all pay the same amount towards social security! (One relatively painless way to "fix" social security is to have it top out at about $200,000 a year or not have it top out at all.)

Originally posted by centurion1211

Your description of "fair share" is NOT something that could be put into a law or into the tax code.

What? It's already in the tax code...favoring the welathiest.

In 2009, Americans as a whole paid less in taxes as a percent of income than at any time since 1950. But that decline isn’t spread evenly. Middle-class people today pay a greater share of their annual income in federal taxes than they did a half-century ago (2008 median household income was roughly $52,000).

Wealthy folks pay less. Over that time, the highest earners have seen their taxes as a share of income fall by as much as 66 percent, according to IRS data.

Between 1960 and 2004, the top 0.1 percent of U.S. taxpayers — who earn an average of $7.1 million per year — have seen the share of their income paid in total federal taxes drop from 60 to 33.6 percent.

Between 1955 and 2007, the top 400 income-earners have seen the share of their income they pay in federal income tax fall from 51.2 percent to 16.6 percent.

In 1960, the middle 20 percent of U.S. taxpayers paid 15.9 percent of their incomes in total income, payroll and other federal taxes. Today, this segment pays 16.1 percent of their incomes in federal income taxes alone.

Tax cuts for the wealthy between 2001-08 cost the U.S. Treasury $700 billion.

The middle 20 percent of U.S. taxpayers in 2007 paid 9.4 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes.

The top 1 percent of U.S. taxpayers in 2007 paid 5.2 percent of their incomes in state state and local taxes.

The tax rate on capital gains, which rose as high as 39.8 percent in 1977, is today 15 percent.

www.bnet.com...

So, where are the numbers?

Since you didn't read my last link to numbers I will try another...see above...or you can keep pretending I haven't provided any?

Need a graphic?



Other than words, numbers and pictures along with citing nearly 20 articles I am not sure how else to communicate with your propagandized mind.

reply to post by Indigo5


No.



I clearly meant what are the new numbers for the tax rates YOU (and obama) think everyone should be paying. Re-posting the rates for what people are already paying - that you say - ad nauseum - that you don't like does what?

Without a real plan with real numbers, you're back to the beauty pageant analogy I just gave you.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


yeah well someone needs to do the real math instead of the fuzzy kind

lets break it down

state,federal and theres that variable cost of living across this country

one tax increase is never enough everyone jumps on the bandwagon hell the feds get to do it and then everyone else jumps on that bandwagon.

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by neo96

 

Prove it.

Prove to me that the one single person in this country made all of their wealth without indirect assistance from the rest of us.

You like to throw around the misnomer that 47% of the population pay no taxes, I like to try to remind you that it's because they're too poor...but guess what, I'll step that back and assert that the rich don't pay their taxes as well, in fact, a half million people who earn more than $100,000 didn't pay:

7,000 Millionaires Paid No Income Taxes in 2011

yeah i can prove something here:

50 million americans on welfare pay zero tax

65 million americans living on social security average monthly paycheck is around 800 per month less than 10k a year pay zero tax

do the math and how many millionaires and billionaires are there in this country?

less than 10 million

please do the math

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by Indigo5

 

I clearly meant what are the new numbers for the tax rates YOU (and obama) think everyone should be paying.

Well then you are seriously uninformed or don't watch the news.

First...not "everyone"...unless you are thinking everyone in the USA is a millionaire?

Second...How about simply ending the Bush era tax cuts for those making over a Million Dollars?

We tried this before and the GOP Fillibustered.

How about ending tax breaks on Corporate Jet Owners?

Oh yeah...the GOP blockaided that as well.

How about closing the tax loophole that benefits corporations that move their headquarters offshore, but where they make their profits in the USA?

Uh Huh...the GOP filibustered that to the tune of denying 9-11 responders medical care...until it went public.

Oil Company Subsidies, I can go on and on. The tax code if packed with thousands of special interest loopholes aimed to benefit the wealthiest 2%. Take a red pen to it.

Have you watched the news over the past year? Pres. Obama's proposals are not a secret.

Wow.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by Indigo5

 

I clearly meant what are the new numbers for the tax rates YOU (and obama) think everyone should be paying.

Well then you are seriously uninformed or don't watch the news.

No, but I do read it all day long from a variety of sources such as CNN and MSNBC (and not Fox News). Can you post with including some sort of personal insults?

First...not "everyone"...unless you are thinking everyone in the USA is a millionaire?

Who said they were?

Second...How about simply ending the Bush era tax cuts for those making over a Million Dollars?

But those weren't just for "millionaires". Who do you have in mind? Where's the legislation? Keep in mind obama's huge blunder in extending them so that renewing them again would happen during the campaign

We tried this before and the GOP Fillibustered.

Even when the dems had a filibuster proof senate? Interesting use of the word "we" there. Are you working for obama?

How about ending tax breaks on Corporate Jet Owners?

Blows whistle. "Penalty". Illegal use of obama class warfare talking points. 15 yards plus loss of credibility for thinking that taxing a few "corporate jet owners" will save the economy.

Oh yeah...the GOP blockaided that as well.

Even when the dems had a filibuster proof senate?

How about closing the tax loophole that benefits corporations that move their headquarters offshore, but where they make their profits in the USA?

With you on that one. And see, I'm not as tunnel-visioned on these this as some others are ...

Uh Huh...the GOP filibustered that to the tune of denying 9-11 responders medical care...until it went public.

That has what to do with any economic discussion? Certainly not this one. Stay on topic, or open a new thread.

Oil Company Subsidies, I can go on and on. The tax code if packed with thousands of special interest loopholes aimed to benefit the wealthiest 2%. Take a red pen to it.

With you on that one too. I'd even look at throwing out the tax code completely for a flat tax or maybe even a national sales tax so that EVERYONE pays something - even illegals and criminals since still they all have to buy "the basics".

Have you watched the news over the past year? Pres. Obama's proposals are not a secret.

Wow.

edit on 22-9-2011 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

See response # 1.

But they are out of touch and most often don't even address the real issues.

Example making a speech at an Ohio bridge about "jobs and infrastructure" when #1 that bridge wouldn't qualify for his program and #2 the stock market was plunging over 400 points.

Obama is like that old (I think) Lucy show routine where she tries to answer an office phone at one desk, but the ring jumps to another desk before she can get it. Like obama she does it over and over, but never really understands what's happening - and never catches up.

Face it. Much like the Lucy character, obama is in way over his head, and it is showing more and more each day.

reply to post by centurion1211



From obama's bridge speech I referred to above ...

source

"Now the Republicans, you know when I, I talked about this earlier in the week. They said 'well, this is class warfare.' You know what? If asking a billionaire to pay their fair of taxes. To pay the same tax rate as a plumber or a teacher is class warfare, then you know what? I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm a warrior for the middle class. I'm happy to fight for the middle class," President Obama said at the Brent Spence Bridge in Cincinnati, OH.

No.

He, he, he, he, clearly doesn't have a clue who he is "fighting for", or it seems even talking to.

Pitiful - if we weren't all being dragged down through his incompetence.

reply to post by centurion1211


Ahh, I always love when press releases from think tanks are presented as 'news'....

When will there be real journalists doing their #ing jobs again?

As usual, it ignores how the various forms of income are taxed: man, I wish most of my income came from dividends... Don't even get started on loopholes like Charitable Foundations.

Also it is very simple: who benefits more from government spending?

The rich, whose businesses get government contracts, whose property is protected by courts and the police, whose business interests abroad are protected by the military, who benefit from having an educated workforce, and now the protection of their bond and stock holdings via myriad bailouts and Fed measures.

As for Buffet and Class Warfare... Straight from the horse's mouth:

“There’s class warfare, all right,” Mr. Buffett said, “but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” - www.nytimes.com...

Originally posted by Jessica6
reply to post by centurion1211

 

As for Buffet and Class Warfare... Straight from the horse's mouth:

“There’s class warfare, all right,” Mr. Buffett said, “but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” - www.nytimes.com...

But Jessica, you must always also look for and understand the agenda behind what these people say and not just the words. So, what is Buffet's agenda here? Especially considering what I will say next.

Do you not question at all how and why obama is one minute attacking all the "millionaires and billionaires and corporate jet owners", while hitting them all up for campaign funds the next?

You should be ...

with regards to buffet stop listening to the guy for pete sake

when a person understands what buffets wealth is it gives perspective on the whole situation

fact is buffets wealth is created by buying stocks in other companies and buffets wealth has no physical value other than what the market deterimines it to be based of the supply and demand of any stock he holds.

raising taxes has a net effect of decreasing that stock price which destroys market cap which destroys jobs and wealth not in just one place but across the whole board.

besides the posterboy for raising taxes owes himself back taxs to the tune of over 1 billion dollars.

so is it right to screan raise taxes on other people but hes sitting there getting out of paying himself?

no

i pay no attention to buffet other people shouldnt either.

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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
As a tax lawyer who has seen tax returns of wealthy, poor, and middle class people I can say that many (not all) rich people pay less in taxes than middle class people.

Besides having access to aggressive tax planning, wealthy people are for the most part not wage earners. They make most of their money selling capital assets. Thus, their income tax rate is near 15% if they are not in any tax shelter or do not take aggressive tax positions. If they have aggressive tax plans, they may pay far less. I know of individuals who make well over a million dollars a year in revenue, withhold nothing, and actually get money back from the government!

Middle class people often pay 20-25% of their income in taxes. Their income comes mostly from wages, which can be taxed at a higher rate than capital gains. Middle class people also do not have aggressive tax plans.

The only expert here. This should have put a end to this debate right then and there.