Fact Check: Are rich taxed less than secretaries?

Originally posted by diatribe
I am self employed and make around $200,000 per year. With all of my deductions my tax rate comes out to around 10%. This is a lower rate then when I worked for someone else for $70,000. The system is set up for people who make good money, not the middle class.

From the horses' mouth.
But, they still won't get it... to the OP go ahead defend the rich, go peacefully into that FEMA Camp and don't cry to us because guess what? We will be laughing at you as we state "We told you so"

Everybody says raising taxes won't help but realistically it's all the Government on both sides has been willing to do. They refuse to cut spending unless it involves %#@#^$ing over the disabled and elderly, so it's two options the Government set forth raise the middle class and poor's taxes or raise the rich's taxes. Where do you think they can get more bang for their buck? Who holds most of the wealth? So plain and simple believing they'll even consider some fairy tale thing as an option (ie ending wars, ending the drug war, or any other disillusioned spuetum) is nothing more than a pipe dream.

Its funny how the bots and table scrapers always start these threads to convince others that the rich have it oh so bad and hard.

Here is something a rich man once said. "Never feel sorry for a millionaire"....So why should you feel sorry for a billionaire or multi billionaires or even trillionaires.

Really taxes should not exist period, but a lot of things should not exist.

This is prison planet people, the experiment is still going on, the game has yet to even begin. And humanity was originally created as a slave species, so much so that even after the original masters are long gone. They still look for something to dominate over them, now that is some strong programming, and those in the know....know at least that. And all those other nutty things that you wont believe...But fear not, for what any human on this planet believes or thinks, does not matter....The show must go on, even if it must go on right trough hell.

You crazy fools better get your act together and find new ways, because the good times that you are experiencing now wont last forever.

So don't expect pity when the # really hits the fan, because the gods do not even know the meaning of the word.

You all still arguing about this crap, I have yet to see a thread that offered a new solution even if it did not work well it still would be better in the long run then this same old same old being regurgitated over and over.

But I will admit it is funny in a twisted kind of way.

Originally posted by diatribe
I am self employed and make around $200,000 per year. With all of my deductions my tax rate comes out to around 10%. This is a lower rate then when I worked for someone else for $70,000. The system is set up for people who make good money, not the middle class.

Yes. And I have seen clergy, who are also considered self-employed, paying 29% (FICA, SS, and Medicare), of incomes in the $30,000 range, no deductions; yet another popular myth is that clergy are not required to pay taxes.

However, The only way I can see a person paying SE taxes at 10% with an income of 200,000 is that the actual salary equivalent (after cost of doing business) is less than the minimum income for paying FICA. As far as I know, that first 15% does not get touched by deductions and SS and Medicare cannot be avoided at all.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by diatribe
I am self employed and make around $200,000 per year. With all of my deductions my tax rate comes out to around 10%. This is a lower rate then when I worked for someone else for $70,000. The system is set up for people who make good money, not the middle class.

OK.

As a member of the "undertaxed", will you now be voluntarily sending in those extra checks to the IRS?

edit on 9/20/2011 by centurion1211 because: (no reason given)

Sorry Centurion, but it's not a valid argument.
If I was making 200k a year, I wouldn't mind paying my fair share of taxes IF all the people that make in the same range pay the same. I'm sure Diatribe would agree. I bet we wouldn't mind paying, if everyone at the same time did.

I heard the same argument against mr Buffet and it was bad then too.

reply to post by centurion1211


While I agree that the "rich' in the nation 'pay' more in taxes that any poor or middle class, is a miss conception of who are the target here.

Yes when Obama "scream" lets tax the rich, what many do not know is that 'uber-wealthy crony capitalists" are only a few, this group are the worst of the lot and they have enough money to burn to push laws behind the whores in congress that take money from them.

But those Uber rich are not the ones been targeted they careless of what they pay in taxes as is plenty of loopholes that their financial advisor's can tap into to make them the most profits after taxes.

The real people that has been targeted in this "Obama deal" are the entrepreneurs those in the category of "Rich" that has achieved their status with either small businesses or education.

See Obama wants to make everybody that is not in the higher income earners groups hate those that makes more money than them, but people are targeting the wrong group.

People that own small businesses do not have the time to sleep with the whores in congress and are too busy making ends meet to do that.

The group that Obama is targeting will be targeted due to the fact that in order to get tax brakes they have to claim earnings from their small businesses as personal wealth, because the laws that are put in place against affect the small businesses the most.

Remember one of the riches men in the world, belong to the Uber class, Buffet, does anybody thinks he cares about taxation to the rich as he falls in it? no, why? because he is in that group that can afford whores in congress and can manipulate laws and regulations that benefits his class group, Buffet gets tax money for failed business, small business owners only gets bankruptcies.

edit on 21-9-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by centurion1211

On average, the wealthiest people in America pay a lot more taxes than the middle class or the poor, according to private and government data.

The 10 percent of households with the highest incomes pay more than half of all federal taxes. They pay more than 70 percent of federal income taxes, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

The above discusses proportion of revenues collected, not the rates. The wealthiest 10% make more money than ever in history at the expense of the remaining 80%. Of course they contribute more cash to revenues...at a lower rate.

10% of 1 Million equals $100,000
20% of 100,000 equals $20,000

Get it???

Take a look at this NY Times graphic. It paints a painful reality of what has occured in the USA starting with Reagan's "Trickle Down" economics.

www.nytimes.com...

Originally posted by User8911

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by diatribe
I am self employed and make around $200,000 per year. With all of my deductions my tax rate comes out to around 10%. This is a lower rate then when I worked for someone else for $70,000. The system is set up for people who make good money, not the middle class.

OK.

As a member of the "undertaxed", will you now be voluntarily sending in those extra checks to the IRS?

edit on 9/20/2011 by centurion1211 because: (no reason given)

Sorry Centurion, but it's not a valid argument.
If I was making 200k a year, I wouldn't mind paying my fair share of taxes IF all the people that make in the same range pay the same. I'm sure Diatribe would agree. I bet we wouldn't mind paying, if everyone at the same time did.

I heard the same argument against mr Buffet and it was bad then too.

edit on 21-9-2011 by User8911 because: (no reason given)

Well, I and many others are still waiting for obama and his supporters to quantitatively define what "fair share" means.

I'm talking about telling us what are considered "fair share" tax rates for which groups of people.

Until that is done, anybody talking about paying your or their "fair share" is just blowing smoke and repeating talking points.

I will like to see, paying more taxes and get penalties those CEOs from companies that benefits and support insourcing, any company that uses H1B visas.

I will like also for companies that have base operations in the US but most of their productions is oversea, penalized, this group is one of the worst, they get away with slave labor provided by developing countries and then comes back to the US with their cheap crap to kill small businesses, and help put the US base producers out of business, I say lets penalized this group.

I will like the government to go after any companies that also avoid taxes while keeping oversea accounts but still sell their products in the US.

And to end the controversy, leave anybody that are small business in the US that produce only in the US and hired only in the US, alone, reward them not tax then until they fall for bankruptcy, this will encourage competition and more US companies producing in the US

I thing Obama is going after the wrong people with his Buffet rule. Like I say no Uber class rich is doing anything for nothing, as usual is nothing good for the consumers and tax payers

The Uber rich gets bailouts the small businesses get bankruptcies.

reply to post by Indigo5

The above discusses proportion of revenues collected, not the rates. The wealthiest 10% make more money than ever in history at the expense of the remaining 80%. Of course they contribute more cash to revenues...at a lower rate.

False.

Cite the NYT all you want, the true calcuations do not need manipulated graphics or unfounded opinions.

This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes, payroll taxes and other taxes.

www.taxpolicycenter.org...

In 2009, taxpayers who made $1 million or more paid on average 24.4 percent of their income in federal income taxes

www.irs.gov...

No matter how you, your far-left "progressive" brethren or Obama want to spin it, the facts do not support your lies.

..........FACT CHECK: Are rich taxed less than secretaries?


deny ignorance

jw

Originally posted by centurion1211
Well, I and many others are still waiting for obama and his supporters to quantitatively define what "fair share" means.
I'm talking about telling us what are considered "fair share" tax rates for which groups of people.

This is the same game Obama has played from day-one of his campaign: Say what you want your base to hear, do anything but what you say. They are weak, gullibe sheep who will follow your words, not your actions.

He will not give specifics any more than he did for the stimulus, Obamacare or "finance reform." That way, he can put the blame on others, yet take credit for the "big picture."

If you doubt this, you are racist.

The one time he actually came to the table with specifics, his 2011 budget, he was laughed out of the room. Not only did he "withdraw" his stupid plan to increase spending and taxes, his own dem-controlled Senate rejected his idiocy by 97-0.

Obama is an empty suit-demagogue who will be re-elected by 100% of the black, union, dependent, dead and alien electorate, so long as he continues enabling and pandering to them 'til next November.

jw

what it means to be rich in this country:

they are paying 60% of their incomes already and thats not good enough need to take more from them

they are paying for everyone elses social security,medicare and medicaid never using them

they are the ones who spend the most money in this country providing jobs from gas stations to grocery stores to manufacturing to home improvement to home building and everything in between.

we claim to be a morally just society a morally just country we are not even close when any group of people have been reduced to how much is in their bank accounts and the mob feels they are entitled to that money

we have fallen into disgrace as americans that ideology was not what built this country

but its damn sure whats destroying it,.

Originally posted by Indigo5
Take a look at this NY Times graphic. It paints a painful reality of what has occured in the USA starting with Reagan's "Trickle Down" economics.

www.nytimes.com...

edit on 21-9-2011 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-9-2011 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

Is it wrong of me to notice the correlation between computers, the information age, and automation and the seperation of top 5th from everyone else?

Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by Indigo5
Take a look at this NY Times graphic. It paints a painful reality of what has occured in the USA starting with Reagan's "Trickle Down" economics.

www.nytimes.com...

edit on 21-9-2011 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-9-2011 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

Is it wrong of me to notice the correlation between computers, the information age, and automation and the seperation of top 5th from everyone else?

Not "wrong"..noticing correlations are good.

But test the theorey..

How many americans own computers? Only the top 5th (20%)?

About 80% of Americans own a computer.

Originally posted by Indigo5
Not "wrong"..noticing correlations are good.

But test the theorey..

How many americans own computers? Only the top 5th (20%)?

About 80% of Americans own a computer.

Seriously?

80% of Americans own computers...TODAY.

How many owned them in the 50's? How about the 60's? Maybe the 70's?

Computers did not become mainstream until the 90's...40 odd years after the top 5th had started using them to generate more production and more wealth.

Today, most production (and production gains) are made through technological advancements not by people. And those advancements are bought and paid for by the top 5th.

Originally posted by neo96
...when any group of people have been reduced to how much is in their bank accounts and the mob feels they are entitled to that money

The mob is entitled to a share of that money. No one got rich on their own in this country.

reply to post by links234


no there not

second line agrees with the first line

and so does the third

reply to post by neo96


Prove it.

Prove to me that the one single person in this country made all of their wealth without indirect assistance from the rest of us.

You like to throw around the misnomer that 47% of the population pay no taxes, I like to try to remind you that it's because they're too poor...but guess what, I'll step that back and assert that the rich don't pay their taxes as well, in fact, a half million people who earn more than $100,000 didn't pay:

7,000 Millionaires Paid No Income Taxes in 2011

I am sick of threads like this. Of people who support the system that is currently on the brink of collapse and that has brought so much pain onto the world. Supporting rich people keeping their money because they 'earned' it is wreaking havoc upon most of the rest of the world.

There simply should not be such a ridiculous amount of inequality between the richest and the poorest, and those who were rich would not try so hard to cling to their money. "Oh no, I am so oppressed, Obama is trying to make me pay more taxes" well guess what buddy, you have the money to make the world a better place and instead you are trying to hoard it all for yourself. Who do we think we are, to think we are entitled to ANY money AT ALL? We don't deserve any of it. All of us who have money deserve none of it because our greediness and selfishness and unwillingness to fork over our money for the greater good is simply appalling.

So yeah, I am sick of this, I am sick of Americans, most of them "Christians" (I won't even get into how much Jesus advocated for the poor and talked about how rich people would have a lot of trouble getting into heaven) talking about how we are entitled to what we earn. But it's like basic etiquette at the dinner table - you wait to eat until everyone has been served. We aren't entitled to any of our money, and in fact, we are simply unworthy of it completely, until everyone in the world has enough. There is enough to go around, but rich people like the OP are defending are hoarding it for themselves - they are not only eating before everyone is served, but they are eating EVERYTHING at the table before anyone else has a chance to get any of it, and then saying, of all things, that they deserved more than they got when some people got nothing. And you, OP, are defending it as if that would ever be acceptable at any dinner table.

Sometimes the human race seriously appalls me. Money is pure evil, and the entire system is set in place to benefit the rich and the privileged (like myself, most Americans, and most Europeans) and turn the rest of the world into serfs. It seems to have worked pretty darn well.

Still waiting for obama and all his fellow tax increase proponents to define for all of us what "fair share" means.

But none of them will, because they are basically cowards. They are also hypocrites because they can always send in more money to the IRS on their own, but they don't.

Because as soon as one of them quotes some numbers, the people in that income group will go after obama and the tax increasers big time.

But obama needs every vote he can get for the coming election. So, he won't ever get specific.

No, he will continue to play his nebulous class warfare game of pitting one group of Americans against another - demonizing "the rich" and the few "corporate jet owners" (whoever they are) - hoping that he can somehow still get the people in both groups to vote for him by blaming the other people (and Bush!) for his mess.

Reply to post by links234

So what it come down to is that you are jealous because they have more money than you at the end of the year.


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