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Atheist and Agnostic...Please read this Thread !!!

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posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 12:06 AM
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I never said their wasn't a higher being. Personally i think there is to much evidence of some higher intelligence than us being in existence, but i believe that it was Aliens. One we still can't find the B's missing link, two humans have been human since 12000 B.C. look at Gobleki Tepe religion formed there before agriculture, animal husbandry all of that, and three wouldn't religion and being labeled a Deity be the only way a backwards species would be able to accept you a higher life form amongst their society. as Arthur C. Clark said, " Any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic" and i have to add or Divine power. All I'm saying is people have perverted the idea over the 12000 years of known human history. to the person below that what does age have to do with anything.




posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 03:17 AM
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Quote from OP:


["You can make a valid and coherent argument without personally attacking Jesus or God."]

And one can be a decent and completely acceptable religionist without missionary interference in other peoples lives, in academic knowledge-seeking or in the running of society.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 05:11 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


are you speaking to me



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by Amatoremsapeientiae
reply to post by bogomil
 


are you speaking to me


No, to the thread-author. But responses between you and me are welcome.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by Biigs
reply to [url= by SavedOne[/url]
 


"Beware what you say as a athiest if one day you see the *truth* as i have you will regret it" How is that not at poke at all agnostics and athiests, somthing he claimed to never do besides speak his thoughts.

Im talking about it now, im not out to change your beliefs, this thread wasnt made in the innocent way its been portrayed.



Absolutely this

OP is kinda sinister if you think about it



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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To the OP. The same way you found new life in the power or belief in god, is probably the same way I lost the belief in god. I had a moment of clarity when I was about 12 or 13, for me those were tough years, some people find god in those moments, for me I lost god.

good luck to you.

p.s.
This is a conspiracy website... Why do people who all of a sudden find god have to go and tell people about it... I never understood that and never will... I found GOD!!, good for you, how is that a conspiracy? Not trying to be rude. Just throwing it out there.
edit on 21-9-2011 by Engafan because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by Biigs
reply to [url= by SavedOne[/url]
 


"Beware what you say as a athiest if one day you see the *truth* as i have you will regret it" How is that not at poke at all agnostics and athiests, somthing he claimed to never do besides speak his thoughts.

Im talking about it now, im not out to change your beliefs, this thread wasnt made in the innocent way its been portrayed.



Absolutely this

OP is kinda sinister if you think about it


Sinister ?

All I am trying to do is change the tone.

It's obvious that I was not clear enough in my OP.

Your soul is your business.

I am trying to change nobody.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by Engafan
 


There is a Religious Conspiracy forum.

This forum is for discussion.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by whyamIhere
 


Perhaps you should have aimed the thread at current religous people like yourself, with similer experiences and not at the people you used to be part of.

By directing it at the poeple in your opinion who are in error currently, you are in fact trying to change those by manipulations of feeling, creating a thread like this and then pleaing at agnostics/athiests to read it/take it on board, is essentially a "guilt trip".

Now you are personnely at peace with your feeling and faith (good for you, honestly), but seek comfort amongst your new freinds for any guilt you might feel for the way you acted previously.

You wont get redemption or forgivness from those who dont answer to a sky pexie.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Biigs
reply to post by whyamIhere
 


Perhaps you should have aimed the thread at current religous people like yourself, with similer experiences and not at the people you used to be part of.

By directing it at the poeple in your opinion who are in error currently, you are in fact trying to change those by manipulations of feeling, creating a thread like this and then pleaing at agnostics/athiests to read it/take it on board, is essentially a "guilt trip".

Now you are personnely at peace with your feeling and faith (good for you, honestly), but seek comfort amongst your new freinds for any guilt you might feel for the way you acted previously.

You wont get redemption or forgivness from those who dont answer to a sky pexie.


I am not religious....But I understand your point.

I am not seeking forgiveness from anybody.

People change....You might change...Words matter.

That's my point. Sorry I could not make it any clearer.

I just don't think you have to call God names like "Sky Pexie"?

You were making great points right till the end.

Did you have to get that one last dig in there?

This just highlights my main objection.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by PhantomSnake
reply to post by tomten
 


as an atheist
i do not preach my beliefs until i get some religious nut gets in my face, so your whole argument is invalid pretty much because i don't know many atheists that do preach their beliefs simply because they hate the religious for doing it in the first place.


So, you haven't seen those road-signs some atheist organizations put up?
Like this Bus poster.

As an atheist, I am against organized atheism also.
Because since we have no belief in any God, then there's nothing to organize a belief in!



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by jazzguy
 


I am a "true" atheist and I do care. Humanity is being torn apart by religion. When people say, "Oh, shut up, it's such a good thing! Look at all of the hospitals Christians have built! Look at all of the money we have raised for such and such!" they are looking at the small picture. Those people obviously don't see the manipulation of people's minds to do things, solely because the product they are selling has the Christian mark of approval on it. It really makes me sick! This is not just about Christianity, though. All religion makes people content with god creating everything, thus turning them off to learn new things that may eventually rival the word of god. (As if he does not do that enough himself) The time that religion is expelled from earth, the sooner we reach technological singularity.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 11:24 PM
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i would like to point out Christianity has performed its fare share of atrocities the crusades, the Inquisition, persecution of Jews until WWII, condoning Hitler, destroying almost an entire race of natives in the New World. in my opinion there just barely scratching the surface of all the bad they've done in the world but that goes for all religion



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by CharterZZ
I am agnostic.

I do not know if there is a god and neither does anyone else.

How can you argue with that?


The way I answer is this (and this is from a discussion with an agnostic person).So you are an agnostic, tell me why. Because you don't know if God or any god exists. What is the problem you have with the God of the Bible? Because you are sad? Why are you sad? If people made you sad then why do you take it out on God? Because God is supposed to be a Father who loves you? But if God does not exist then how can He be your Father? You want God to be your Father? How can He be your Father if you don't don't believe you are His child, a child only exists because of a Father. Does He exist if you are not His child? Why does it matter anyway if you don't believe in God? But you want God as a good Father? You want to end pain and suffering in this world? How do you know the pain and suffering comes because of God? Because you feel pain? And you want to ease your pain? But you don't believe in God, how can the pain come from believing in God? So your pain is because you want to believe in God but can't? If you have said you want God to be your Father, then you accept that is His role and that means you do believe He exists.

I have seen in my life people who are all kinds of religious and philosophical practitioners. I have worked with every type of person there is. The one thing I have seen these people do, they deny God and they deny Jesus but at the moment in their lives when they needed prayer, they asked a Christian to pray for them. I saw a Jewish person ask a Christian for prayer. I saw a Hindu person ask to join a prayer group after being moved to tears. These were not incidents of us forcing ourselves on them.

When I say there is power in the Name of Jesus, there is. No one moves to ask for prayer in the name of Horus or Thor. And the Name of Jesus causes people who do not believe in Him to attack Him. If Jesus did not exist with the power of His person, then He would not be a target for ridicule and attack.

Let me ask this...if I place a bottle of Jim Beam whiskey in front of you, what images come up in your mind? There is power to the image of Jim Beam. If I present a crucifix in front of you, what images come up in your mind? Because there is an image attached, then there is justifiable meaning to it. And if there is justifiable meaning then it has a definition. And a definition means there is something real.

Sure, we can see a tangible bottle of whiskey and we don't see a tangible God, but the power of definition is still there. And all we as Christians have to do is say the name of Jesus and everyone, no matter religious, atheist or agnostic, attaches meaning to it. Even in the most agnostic or atheist mind, they still have to think against the meaning before they say He does not exist. There is no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny, but we don't hear the attacks against them and no one accuses those who believe in Santa or the Bunny of forcing that on everyone. It has become the name of Jesus that gets that honor.

Jesus exists beyond the images of Him, beyond the definitions of Him and beyond our own experience. Neither did I exist before I came into this world, but that does not mean that I would never exist and when I am gone it would not mean I have never existed. And you don't know me, you only know a username that is WarminIndy. You see my words on here. You comment on my words in here. But WarminIndy does not really exist, that is merely a part of my personification, there is a real person here who types and you read. I existed before my username and will continue to exist beyond it. The words I typed have now gone into your mind and cannot be taken back because those words came from me, and as the Greek poet said "I think, therefore I am". Can you say I do not exist because you have never seen me?



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I have never heard it put quite that way...Thanks

My question is,

On the very worst day of your life, Did you pray?

Most Atheists admit they did pray.

That to me speaks for itself.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by CharterZZ
I am agnostic.
I do not know if there is a god and neither does anyone else.
How can you argue with that?
You don't perceive God directly, that's why it says He is a spirit, which is something you know by perceiving the actions which you attribute to that spirit acting.
Maybe you don't have things that are so obviously out of place happen in your life that you have to attribute to something supernatural but likely you know someone who has and it may be your opportunity, listening to that person, to believe in something beyond normal explanation.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by tomten
reply to post by whyamIhere
 


I am an Atheist.
I do not believe there are any God(s) or Omnipotent Presence.

I does not preach for my beliefs.
I also get upset when people try to push their beliefs on to someone.

Coexist!


AKA:
1. Here's what I am.
2. Here's why I am.
3. That is why I don't tell people: 1. Here's what I am. 2. Here's why I am.
4. I don't like it when people tell me what to do.
5. Now do as I tell you!

Just because you do the same thing in less time does not mean that you don't do the same exact thing. If you cannot see this, then look again.


Originally posted by Klassified
The difference is, as christians, they are required to share their faith, and proselytize. As atheists, we are not.
I think it's plain human nature to debate issues, and share your own pov interests. (See above.) Yes, Christians are required to share, but we're supposed to give reasoned arguments (ready defense), and we're given example about how to take people from where they are at right now. The problem is that most people can't take you from what your everyday life is about, and just jump in the whole "You're going to Hell!!" mid-stride. Brow-beating such doesn't fix things.


OP. As one who spent nearly 30 years in the christian faith. Do yourself a favor. Let the God you believe in be your guide. Not the church. The leadership of the church, IMHO, is as corrupt as the governments of this world.]
A lot of Christians who still faithfully attend a congregation are still doing so while having come to that conclusion. There's a lot of nutty leaders out there, but not all of them are insane. A lot of times this type of advice somes across as a "Leave Your Church!" venom-filled slander, irrelevant of how well meaning it's meant. (Not saying anyone here took it that way either.)

Pointed out from the OP by Biigs
"Beware what you say as a athiest if one day you see the *truth* as i have you will regret it" How is that not at poke at all agnostics and athiests, somthing he claimed to never do besides speak his thoughts.
You can state that and not mean a "change your ways" mentality towards them. It's called: if you don't change, it won't bite your butt. I see my new position as truth, so I'm going to call it that. Just a heads up that there will be consequences of a change in belief, and I regret it because I've been there. This is a step pulled back from the whole "Come to Jesus" speech.


Originally posted by PhantomSnakebecause i don't know many atheists that do preach their beliefs simply because they hate the religious for doing it in the first place.
Do you know how many of the Religious who can say the same thing back? The majority of the experiences you ever have, only the earliest and the most emotionally memorable stick out in your mind. So to each person you attack, for merely voicing 1 opinion (usually how it starts) and them snowballing into letting more of their POV come out under your potential needling, what did you expect? Both sides have been hurt and are unwilling to look at the other with compassion.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by CynicalDrivel
 





You can state that and not mean a "change your ways" mentality towards them. It's called: if you don't change, it won't bite your butt. I see my new position as truth, so I'm going to call it that. Just a heads up that there will be consequences of a change in belief, and I regret it because I've been there. This is a step pulled back from the whole "Come to Jesus" speech.


I understand and appreciate your well thought out words.

Would you mind elaborating on this paragraph?

I want to make sure I understand what you meant.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by whyamIhere
reply to post by CynicalDrivel
 





You can state that and not mean a "change your ways" mentality towards them. It's called: if you don't change, it won't bite your butt. I see my new position as truth, so I'm going to call it that. Just a heads up that there will be consequences of a change in belief, and I regret it because I've been there. This is a step pulled back from the whole "Come to Jesus" speech.


I understand and appreciate your well thought out words.

Would you mind elaborating on this paragraph?

I want to make sure I understand what you meant.


As in:

1. The OP is regrets from someone who had a change of heart. If the reader has not had a change of heart, they not likely to experience the regret.

2. Since the OP used to be of a mind that was different from the conclusions they've drawn now, they're telling those of their former beliefs that "if and when" they change, they may well face the same regrets.

3. Stating "if/when" people change their minds, this is the result is NOT the same as saying you ought to change your mind.

4. Statistically, someone's going to jump sides in this argument. Even from the "It'll never be me!" crowd. Think: did you ever believe in Santa Clause? Did you ever have a change in heart about him? What about when you hear that there really once was a Saint Nicholas and that Santa was derived from him (and i don't mean the stupid cartoon version of this story either)? Just because Santa Clause doesn't exist, that doesn't mean that there wasn't a real person who was a source for the mythos. Now, to assume that you'll never stumble across "suitable evidence" that is enough to change your mind about God is just as bad as assuming there will be information tomorrow that will. Nobody really knows where anyone else will be at, mentally, in the future.

5. People go about having radical changes in beliefs all the time. Many of those times, they have regrets when there is a radical change in behavior that has to go along with it.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by CynicalDrivel
 



Ok, Thanks for explaining. I was the OP.

No words would of changed me when I was younger.

It took an event in my life to return to God.

My regrets are the things I said.

The point of the OP was to maybe change the tone of the argument.

Nothing some guy behind an avatar could do to change a heart.

I just see people go out of there way to insult God.

My point...Insult the religion all you want.

To me....You can make your points without insulting the Deity.



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