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(Howard) Dean: Employers will drop coverage under Obamacare

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posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


You still haven't told us how to keep gov out of healthcare.

Doesn't matter which is better if you can't things rolling in that direction.




posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


yeah well not a dog i dont play dead and roll over and bark when im told to.

how does anyone fix anything first step recognizing theres a problem and there is a huge problem with the sheer size and scope and power and influence of this government.

to even begin to effect that change you need someone who sees that and who beleives that and who doesnt bow down to polticial peer pressure.

the survival of this country is at stake the status quo of more of the same isnt working and has never worked

for those people who think government is the solution to our problems they are the creators.

create a crisis to grab power and control because americans are too stupid and to dumb to self govern

no they need a master to tell them how to think act belive and live no they need that government to legislate morality and sucesss.

we dont business needs a restoration to the free market system where compettion yeilds success and failures and not proping up business and peoples failures.

and that compettion right there raises the quality of service and creates long term wealth creation sustainablitiy.

want to fix the healthcare system you have to elect someone who sees the problem

only way or if your prefer sit there and yell about how evil business and finance is instead of the true masters of this people.

my thoughts just a rant



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 



No he didn't because the [color=limegreen]fact is that people have handed that choice over to their employer. If they hadn't then they would indeed have the choice. The only one to blame is the person who gave up their freedom to choose in exchange for a paycheck.

still don't see how ?





That's the whole point of the OP. Employers dropping their private insurance thus forcing employees onto obamacare.

If this isn't the case then the OP is wrong.


reply to post by xuenchen
 



I'm not clear on exactly HOW employees have

"handed over" the insurance "choice" to employers ?????

if a collective bargaining contract exists, then I see the choice.

Absence of a contract makes the "choice" solely in the hands of the companies.

yes/no

otherwise, most people have relied on the government and clearly,

Obama's statements would influence worker's opinions.




employees had no vote on obamacare.

employers have the power of financial contributions.

politicians have the power of fibbing without penalty.

now, employees have hardly any choice.

all at the hand of politicians.

insurance rates have in fact increased with no problems solved at all,
except for maybe the employers problems.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by daskakik
 

want to fix the healthcare system you have to elect someone who sees the problem


They all see the problem but it stops being their problem when their palms are greased.

Even if you get a couple of politicians that do care about the people they are usually outnumbered and since it is a majority rules system the people always get the short end.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


The OP is about:


Even former chair of the DNC now admits that at least 30% of small businesses will drop their own coverage plans for employees, which would force those employees into the government run health insurance exchanges.


Not about employees voting on obamacare, companies lobbying or what current insurance rates are. Its about employers dropping private insurance for their employees. The companies choice not the employees or Obamas.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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When you have health insurance do you always receive the best and most complete care available? Aside from hospital room frills, cable TV, wi-fi, private room, and such, are you approved the best prescription drugs, the best surgical procedures, the best care? Or is there someone looking at and deciding just how much expense will be allowed in your case?

How does having insurance help you? If you have no money are you refused medical care?



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by neo96

how does anyone fix anything first step recognizing theres a problem and there is a huge problem with the sheer size and scope and power and influence of this government.

to even begin to effect that change you need someone who sees that and who beleives that and who doesnt bow down to polticial peer pressure.

want to fix the healthcare system you have to elect someone who sees the problem

my thoughts just a rant


Glad you recognize it for what it is.

Have we ever had leaders like that? There are powers beyond our Executive Office that like things like they are. They just want more of it. The US healthcare system is a big and self-serving mess - though I am not speaking of its workers who just need to make a living wage.

I have seen and used the healthcare system of another nation, NOT a socialized system but one that is available and affordable to most everyone. I do not believe the American healthcare system can get there from here. There are too many interests in place that would never let that happen. Any attempt at reform is just an opening for them to turn it more toward their favor.

I doubt even Obama-care is as Barry first proposed it. Check and see if what has passed is not more self-serving than what was initially proposed. He might have had positive changes in mind at the outset but those could never be put in place.


edit on 20-9-2011 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by benrl
 



reply to post by Julie Washington
YES but many employers use healthcare as a reason to pay employees less, Ive been in Management for 10 years and have seen the employer side, they use it as an incentive, its part of the cost of paying your employees.

Many people start jobs because they have benefits, even if the pay is not what it should be.


Benefits are part of the overall compensation package an employee earns.

If an employee is willing to work for a particular compensation package, then the pay is what it should be.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 



the goal of obamacare?

the total and complete destruction of the healthcare system in this country why?

because private healthcare coverage is and will always be far better off that medicare and medicaid

so what nefarious purpose is the end goal here?

to make the government the only game in town why

complete and total control


Another way of stating it is it's a step towards nationalizing the healthcare system. In other words, another step to replace the free market system with socialism.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by mishigas
 


indeed to dumb it down further for the sheep

lousy care more expensive and year long waits suckers



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by mishigas
 


indeed to dumb it down further for the sheep

lousy care more expensive and year long waits suckers


Except that that is the current state of healthcare when compared to other countries (including those with socialist healthcare). 38th place according to:

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems.

I think the suckering has already been done.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by mishigas

Another way of stating it is it's a step towards nationalizing the healthcare system. In other words, another step to replace the free market system with socialism.


You already have a system that cannot be paid for out-of-pocket by the vast majority of Americans. You are dependent on insurance to pay for your healthcare needs. You are dependent on insurance companies to give the approval to provide you with the services you need. With insurance you always get the best of care and the best medicines and surgical procedures available, right?

How does this differ from a socialized system? By the fact that you can elect your health plan and service provider? You choose the very best coverage that is available, right? Or are you the rare individual that can afford to pay out-of-pocket for all your needs? If you have no money at all will you be refused medical care?


edit on 20-9-2011 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by mishigas
 


well that's kinda my point, it is included as your pay.

And the company I had the most exp with in this regards had this policy about Unions, if the unions come in, we are cutting all benefits to nothing.

I was in a meeting where they actually said they wanted it to happen so they could start cutting back drastically on benefits and blame the union.

Even if that was apart of your salary in the first place.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by neo96that "evil profiteering" is the reason private healthcare in this country is and always will be better than government ran stupidity


Ok, so you've (sort of) explained how an insurance company works, which is something most people over the age of 12 can probably figure out and isn't really germane to this discussion anyway. You still haven't addressed WHY the insurance companies have to exist in the first place, which is the root of the problem.

Secondly, the statistics speak for themselves. The United States, with it's private health care system is one of the worst in the industrialized world in everything from infant mortality, to quality of life, to a host of other things. Guess which countries are ahead of us? Those evil socialists and their public health care system.

It's easy to mash out rants from behind your keyboard about this good/evil dichotomy you seem to think exists and the supposed altruism of a 'free' market. It's far more difficult to open up your mind a little bit and see that these problems aren't nearly as black and white as you might think. Is complete government control the best answer? Probably not, but I think we've seen from the enormous amount of bankruptcies and other difficulties encountered at the hands of our insurance and profit driven health care industry that market-based solutions aren't really all that good, either.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by neo96
 



the goal of obamacare?

the total and complete destruction of the healthcare system in this country why?

because private healthcare coverage is and will always be far better off that medicare and medicaid

so what nefarious purpose is the end goal here?

to make the government the only game in town why

complete and total control


Another way of stating it is it's a step towards nationalizing the healthcare system. In other words, another step to replace the free market system with socialism.


Medical costs are ridiculous in this country. The "free market system" isn't really working either.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


Take THAT, Slovenia!

And damn you, Costa Rica!




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