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An understanding of Islam ,from a convert

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posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by ShamilAbdullah
reply to post by DoctorHouseMD
 


please tell me how it was debunked ? any of the holy books ? do you have proof ? .


The quran contains the usual flat earth bull poop from that time, but for me the “astronomy” bits highlight just how wrong the quran is


And We have (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with lamps,
and we have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans, ...
-- Sura 67:5

We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,
(for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans.
(So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.
-- Sura 37:6-8


who ever wrote the quran thinks that stars are lamps hung on some kind of roof (and can be thrown around like missiles) – this idea is what passed for science 1600 years ago but its not the kind of mistake a creator of the universe would make (assuming there is a creator)

so the quran is clearly the work of a man who’s information was limited to what was understood at that time

edit on 23-9-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:25 AM
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Originally posted by racasan

Originally posted by ShamilAbdullah
reply to post by DoctorHouseMD
 


please tell me how it was debunked ? any of the holy books ? do you have proof ? .


The quran contains the usual flat earth bull poop from that time, but for me the “astronomy” bits highlight just how wrong the quran is


And We have (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with lamps,
and we have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans, ...
-- Sura 67:5

We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,
(for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans.
(So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.
-- Sura 37:6-8


who ever wrote the quran thinks that stars are lamps hung on some kind of roof (and can be thrown around like missiles) – this idea is what passed for science 1600 years ago but its not the kind of mistake a creator of the universe would make (assuming there is a creator)

so the quran is clearly the work of a man who’s information was limited to what was understood at that time

edit on 23-9-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)


really is that it ? because of that ? how do you know they were not speaking in parables like the bible ? is their anything els you can bring to the table ? prove me me that their is not a creator ? can you ?



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by ShamilAbdullah

Originally posted by racasan

Originally posted by ShamilAbdullah
reply to post by DoctorHouseMD
 


please tell me how it was debunked ? any of the holy books ? do you have proof ? .


The quran contains the usual flat earth bull poop from that time, but for me the “astronomy” bits highlight just how wrong the quran is


And We have (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with lamps,
and we have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans, ...
-- Sura 67:5

We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,
(for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans.
(So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.
-- Sura 37:6-8


who ever wrote the quran thinks that stars are lamps hung on some kind of roof (and can be thrown around like missiles) – this idea is what passed for science 1600 years ago but its not the kind of mistake a creator of the universe would make (assuming there is a creator)

so the quran is clearly the work of a man who’s information was limited to what was understood at that time

edit on 23-9-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)


really is that it ? because of that ? how do you know they were not speaking in parables like the bible ? is their anything els you can bring to the table ? prove me me that their is not a creator ? can you ?



You asked for the quran to be debunked – I debunked it

So now you have run to the old “it’s a parable” excuse – an ruse beloved of religious people everywhere which they use to try and cover up the massive errors in their books


A parable is [1] a succinct story, in prose or verse, which illustrates one or more instructive principles, or lessons, or (sometimes) a normative principle

Ok if it’s a parable, what is it a parable of – what idea is it trying to convey?



Here’s the interpretation from one of the most popular exegeses of the Qur'an

Tafsir al-Jalalayn

-- Sura 67:5
And verily We have adorned the lowest heaven, the one closest to the earth, with lamps, with stars, and made them missiles against the devils, should they [attempt to] listen by stealth, in which case a meteor of fire detaches itself from the star, just like a brand is taken from a fire, and either kills that jinn or deprives him of his senses: it is not that the star itself is displaced from its position; and We have prepared for them the chastisement of the Blaze, the ignited Fire.

-- Sura 37:6-8
We have indeed adorned the lowest heaven with an adornment, the stars, that is to say, [adorned] with their light or with them [the stars] (the genitive annexation [bi-zīnati’l-kawākib] is for explication; similarly [explicative] is the reading of bi-zīnatin, ‘with an adornment’, with nunation, [the adornment] explained as being ‘the stars’);


the whole stars are lamps, flat earth, sun going around the earth and all that kind thing is from Ptolemy - no creator of the universe would or could make this mistake - but a human 1600+ years ago could

quran myth busted



edit on 23-9-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-9-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 06:13 AM
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Organized Religion Is the collective term for which their is a place of worship be it church, synagogue, Temple, Mosque, etc. I'm just saying that it should be more of a you and your god thing, rather than the you, your god, and the priest, if there is a god. Also about Buddhism I just meant that they take the aspect of the Hindu re-incarnation to an extreme of it's wrong to restrain from violence always unless attacked. I personally don't agree with this because if somebody touches my kid in an inappropriate manner they'll never find his body.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 07:21 AM
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I think it's only fair that I treat all religions equally, that's why I believe they are all equally ridiculous. Anyone who believes in a creationist view of the world despite the evidence presented must have a screw lose somewhere.

What would make you question your dogmatic belief in religion?



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Rape Law?



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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As Doctor Johnson said to Boswell, on observing two washerwomen railing at each other from balconies across a narrow street: ‘they will never agree, for they argue from different premises.’

I am proud to know many moderate Muslims who have made their own personal accommodation with their faith.

The form of Islam best known to people in the West is politically active, often violent fundamentalism.

The image of Islam in the West is concocted mainly from their knowledge of four Muslim countries: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. The first two are theocratic dictatorships, the last two are failed states.

In countries as different and diverse as Turkey and Indonesia, Maldives and Egypt, moderate versions of Islam have been very successful. And many countries, including China, have large Muslim minorities that coexist peaceably, for the most part, with people of other faiths.

I have Muslim friends who have worn the abaya, and Muslim friends who dress very provocatively indeed, without yielding an inch to any imputation that their conduct is somehow un-Muslim.

Unfortunately, in the dialogue of Islam with the West, the fundamentalists dominate the discussion. The battle of cultures is between fundamentalists on both sides. It was they who made it a battle. A battle that will never be won, for they argue from different premises.



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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(67:5) We have adorned the lower heaven *9 with lamps, *10 and have made them a means to drive away the satans. *11 We have prepared for them the chastisement of the Blazing Fire. *9 "The nearest heaven": the heaven the stars and planets of which can be seen with the naked eye; the objects beyond that which can be seen only through telescopes are the distant heaven; and the heavens still farther away are those which have not yet been seen even with telescopes. *10 The word masabih in the original has been used as a common noun, and therefore, automatically gives the meaning of the lamp's being splendid and glorious. It means: "We have not created this universe dark, dismal and desolate, but have decked and decorated it with stars, the glory and grandeur of which at night strike man with amazement." *11 This does not mean that the stars themselves are pelted at the Satans, nor that the meteorites shoot out only to drive away the Satans, but it means that the countless meteorites which originate from the stars and wander in space at tremendous speeds and which also fall to the earth in a continuous shower prevent the Satans of the earth from ascending to the heavens. Even if they try to ascend heavenward these meteorites drive them away. This thing has been mentioned here because the Arabs believed about the soothsayers, and this also was the claim made by the soothsayers themselves, that the Satans were under their control, or that they had a close contact with them, and through them they received news of the unseen, and thus, could foretell the destinies of the people. That is why at several places in the Qur'an, it has been stated that there is absolutely no possibility of the Satans' ascending to the heavens and bringing news of the unseen. (For explanation, see E.N.'s 9-12 of AI-Hijr, E.N.'s 6, 7 of As-Saaffat). As for the truth about meteorites, man's information in this regard is still without a scientific basis. However, the theory which seems best to account for all the facts known today and the information gathered from the examination of the meteorites fallen on the earth, is that meteorites originate from the disintegration of one or more planets and wander in space and sometimes fall to the earth under its gravitational pull. (See Erlcyclopaedia Britannica, vol. XV, under "Meteorites"). وَلِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بِرَبِّهِمْ عَذَابُ جَهَنَّمَ وَبِئْسَ الْمَصِيرُ ﴿67:6﴾ (67:6) The chastisement of Hell awaits those who disbelieve in their Lord. *12 What a wretched destination! *12 That is, the fate of all those,whether men or Satans, who disbelieve in their Lord. (For the explanation of the meaning of disbelieving in the Lord (Rabb), see E.N 161 of AI-Baqarah, E.N. 178 of An-Nisa', E.N. 39 of Al-Kahf, E,N. 3 of Al-Mu'min إِذَا أُلْقُوا فِيهَا سَمِعُوا لَهَا شَهِيقًا وَهِيَ تَفُورُ ﴿67:7﴾ (67:7) When they will be cast into it, they will hear it roar as it boils, *13 *13 The word shahiq is used for producing a cry like the ass's braying. The sentence may also mean that it could be the sound of Hell itself, as well as that it would be the sound coming from Hell, where the people already flung into it would be screaming and crying. This second meaning is supported by Surah Hud: 106, where it has been said: "Therein they will pant and hiss (because of thirst)", and the first meaning is confirmed by AI-Furgan: 12, which says: "When the Hell will see them from afar, they will hear the sounds of its raging and roaring." On this basis, the correct meaning is that it would be the noise made both by Hell and by the dwellers of Hell.
reply to post by racasan
 


www.quranenglish.com...


you were saying ?



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by ShamilAbdullah
 


Sorry but the fact that someone has written something to try and make the quran fit what we know now proves nothing (apart from the fact that the quran got it wrong to start with)


If you want to believe the quran was authored by the creator of the universe – that’s fine with me

however that wont change the fact that the quran looks like a jumble of fiction and misunderstood pre-science knowledge



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by ShamilAbdullah
 


Sorry but the fact that someone has written something to try and make the quran fit what we know now proves nothing (apart from the fact that the quran got it wrong to start with)


If you want to believe the quran was authored by the creator of the universe – that’s fine with me

however that wont change the fact that the quran looks like a jumble of fiction and misunderstood pre-science knowledge



as expected, regardless of what you believe ,can you agree that their is a creator ?



posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by ShamilAbdullah
Please bare with me its my first thread ,forgive me for any spelling or grammar errors .




No one can deny that Islam is very much in the spotlight today. in spite of extremely negative portrayals by Western media (or perhaps because of them). increasing numbers of people are seeking to find out more about it . And more often then not ,they are being pleasantly surprised by the fruits of their research. In fact ,more people are embracing Islam today than they did prior to September 11,2001. However,there does remain a great deal of misconception and misunderstanding on the subject,frequently fueled by political policies which deem it in their interest to support Islam's enemies.In addition, Muslims themselves,at first shocked and confused by the events of recent years, did not really know how to respond to the challenge, now they have been rudely awakened to the urgency of refuting the many false claims and accusations being spread against their way of life and of defending the truth,and accordingly , the rights and honor of Muslims everywhere on earth. ....[from page i in the Foreward
I hope that this enlighten a few members .Thank you so much for your time

Brother Shamil Abdullah

ok please forgive me i had no idea , but i am using a book from Saheeh International to answer questions , and my plan is over time post and answer the 50 common questions in the book and also sector in some of my research , many thanks
barrryedwards87.webs.com...


edit on 20-9-2011 by ShamilAbdullah because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-9-2011 by ShamilAbdullah because: (no reason given)



I suspect anyone wearing military uniforms with an AK-47 propped up next to them while they display a peace sign (your avatar pic). Uh, nice try but i think i will stay with Yahweh, Allah is too much of a blood thirsty moon-god for me to ever want to serve. Plus Yahweh kicked his ass a long time ago (Allah is really Satan, the crescent moon is his symbol), but Allah is the type of false god that refuses to stay down. Go ahead and read the bible on what the Lord did to Dagon (Samuel 5: 1-6), the Lord of Hosts bows down to no false god.
edit on 23-9-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by Ranthenae
 


I want to put my input in these questions even though I am not Muslim but I am married to one. I was raised Catholic but I call myself Agnostic.

I think everything that you say it is relevant. Everyone is different and in many religions you find different people. It depends what region you are from as a Muslim, which school you follow as your teachings and the culture. You will find Muslims countries of all kinds from the very conservative to the very liberal. Take Turkey for instant, alcohol is consumed, head scarfs are a minority and such. They dress very Western but you can also find the people in Turkey that are very conservative, wear head-scarfs and forbid alcohol. Then you see that Turkey is more liberal than other countries because choices are allowed, people can choose how to live their life.
Then you see countries like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, that are more to the conservative side. Many of these countries have powerful goverments that make people dress in a code, behave in certain ways. Many of these countries also follow different Sunni or Shiia teachings that say that "this is the norm if not you will suffer"
Because they have been raised like that then they believe that is normal to be or act like than.

Then unfortunately, when they immigrate, they have a huge shock because the country they just moved into it is so "wrong"
Of course they need to adapt, of course. That is a complete different threat though.

In England you also see the people with headscarfs or Muslims that look very Western, because they have the choice here.
Many women I have meet in the Muslim community wear the scarf because they like it, because they want. Because they are tought that is their choice. Why they liek it? Because they feel more confident that only their sexy areas are efor the men only, a believe that not longer than 40 years ago women believe also in England.
I cannot say there aren't people like that here in England. I am sure there are but for them, it probably is normal to think like that. The women may think is normal for their husband to be like that but hey, there is domestic abuse everywhere in the world and in the UK is not abnormal to hear about. Domestic abuse exists wether you are Muslim, Christian, atheist, or whatever.

The misunderstanding of Islam comes from extremism that you will see in your everyday life, it is just another case of extremism. You see it in Christians, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics or even nationalists, other trails of culture, sex, background, etc.

Some schools also say that men decide how many wives he wants. Others the first woman decides about tthe second wife and so on.

I am married to a Muslim man who cooks for me, washes, treats me with love. We are both equally charge of our bussiness. I do not wear headscarfs, I wear whatever I want. he is not allow to have a second wife because I decide that not him plus the teachings of Islam he recieved states that men are not allow to marry more than once.

You are allow to divorce and I can even divorce him by just say "I divorce _______" say it three times in front of three witness

It is hood you ask questions. I also believed once Islam was a ridiculous religions specially to women but only by exposing myself and getting to know everyone, you then understand not everyone is like that. It just makes you think that not everything in the worl is black or white.
edit on 24-9-2011 by azulejo because: grammar and sorry for the ones I missed



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by racasan
 


I think that if you also take the Eve did eat an apple then you have to be kidding me!

Sorry but everything is up to interpretation. I do believe teh Bible was written ages ago and if so they must have use a different language, metaphoric one to describe what they wanted to describe, also the Qu'ran and also the Torah.

The whole dragons, fires, angels, etc can be represented like that but meaning something different.

You do not talk about the good sides of things do you? I have read the Qu'ran and meanwhile I think some of it it is quite crude, harsh, I think I ahve read incredible pieces of literature and also have left me aghast.

The drop of fluid or semen

In a number of places we are informed that man is created from a drop of fluid (semen, seed or sperm):

16:4 He created man from a drop of fluid (Pickthall)
16:4 He has created man from a sperm-The drop of fluid or semen
32:8 He made his seed from a quintessence of despised fluid
35:11 ... then from a little fluid (Pickthall)
53:46 (he created) from a drop of seed when it is poured forth (Pickthall)
53:46 From a sperm-drop when lodged (in its place)
56:58 Have ye seen that which ye emit (Pickthall)
56:58 Do you then see? The (human Seed) that ye emit
75:37 Was he not a drop of fluid which gushed forth (Pickthall)
75:37 Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)?
76:2 We create man from a drop of thickened fluid (Pickthall)
76:2 We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm
77:20 Did We not create you from a worthless water (semen, etc.)? (Al-Hilali & Khan)
80:19 From a sperm-drop He hath created him
86:6-7 He is created from a drop emitted - proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.


On Montains:

This is how the Quran has described mountains. God has said in the Quran:

Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? (Quran, 78:6-7)


Barrier between sweet ans salty water:

Consider the following Qur'anic verses:
"HE has let free The two bodies Of flowing water, Meeting together: Between them is a Barrier Which they do not transgress." [AL-QUR'AN 55:19:20]

The QUR'AN mentions this phenomenon also in the following verse:
"And made a separating bar Between the two bodies Of flowing water?" [AL-QUR'AN 27:61]

"It is HE WHO has Let free the two bodies Of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, And the other salty and bitter; Yet has HE Made a barrier between them, And a partition that is forbidden To be passed.
[AL-QUR'AN 25:53]

DARKNESS IN THE DEPTHS OF THE OCEAN


Prof. Durga Rao is an expert in the field of Marine Geology and was a professor at King Abdul Aziz University in Jeddah. He was asked to comment on the following verse:


"Or (the Unbelievers' state) Is like the depths of darkness In a vast deep ocean, Overwhelmed with billow Topped by billow, Topped by (dark) clouds: Depths of darkness, one Above another: if a man Stretches out his hand, He can hardly see it! For any to whom ALLAH Giveth not light, There is no light!"
[AL-QUR'AN 21:40]

Now this is how you need to interpret things, not talking baout some darkness on Earth as we are doomed! :s

On Cosmology;

And the heaven We built with Our own powers (aydin) and indeed We go on expanding it (musi'un).1
AL_QU'RAN 51:48

The Holy Quran also pronounces that all heavenly bodies are in a constant state of motion; none of them is stationary:
... everything is gliding along smoothly in its orbit
AL_QU'RAN 21:34


The Big Bang Theory:

“And the heaven We created with might, and indeed We are (its) expander.” (Quran 51:47)



I am not saying this for someone to come and say I am right or wrong. I am stating why Muslims believe so much in the Qu'ran and get outraged about calling the Quran a source of evil when you can read this verses that are truly marvellous for the time it was written, do not forget that.

I am also astonished and I look at it in a biased way just how I read mantras, vedas, the Bible, Buddhist teachings, etc. Take whatever good to yourself and whatever bad leave it there.

if you are saying that I am right and you are wrong is like believe in Heaven and Hell because right and wrong only depend on your reality of such things and you are reality is definetely not the correct one but a valuable one.
Everything has an action and an effect and consequences even our beliefs, our culture, our way of life.



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:18 AM
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Another thing I would need to add and excuse me for my so many replies.

I agree with someone that have responded to the OP.

I think also that your avatar can send a very difficult message to everyone here. I think I understand where you are coming from if it is about the Muhajedeen and the sole and fundamental believe of what is the Muhajedeen and the fighting against evil in its romantic and equality, justice ideals but at the sametime, we live in a time where it is pretty obvious that a green uniform and lethal weapons are associaed with corruption, fearmongering, repression and such.
So, not the right avatar my friend. War has never been the answer unless is justified. How is justified? When it is self-defense.
I think people like my husband have a really hard time in the UK because people like you... I am sorry to say, Appearing with these images and then, because people do not understand YOU, missinterpret (no faults here) that you Muslims are angry and "terrorists".

I have two thoughts you either want to misinform peopel about Islam by inverse psychology with a hidden agenda orr you are very newly convert who is going through the extremist side of the Holy jihad Idea which is NOT THE FUNDAMENTAL IDEA of Islam.
and there my friend also, I cannot criticise you or judge you because after convertion, it is very normal indeed to be on the extremist side.

I apologise again for my many replies



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:34 AM
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not applicable
edit on 24-9-2011 by azulejo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:35 AM
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not applicable
edit on 24-9-2011 by azulejo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:38 AM
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reply to post by AussiePatriot
 


If you also believe everything on ATS might as well call youself a robot



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 



what is Reality? Is it why you say? Isn't there people with different ideas and not even two of them are equal and will never be? Isnt it now 6 billion people equals to 6 billion personas and realities? Who is right?



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 07:59 AM
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@ azulejo & ShamilAbdullah

Just to be clear
I don’t believe in any sort of god(s) and I am in fact 100% certain that the quran & bible are just a lot of ancient rubbish that should be on the rubbish dump of history by now and given the number of people who are now waking up to religions ‘game’ they soon will be



Ramen



posted on Sep, 24 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by ShamilAbdullah

Originally posted by Carseller4

Originally posted by ShamilAbdullah

Muslims are of diverse nationalities ,cultures and races,but their religion teaches that all men and woman are essentially equal and that no distinction should be made color ,class status or personal beliefs as long as they remain peaceful and law-abiding citizens.


You are joking right? Women are no where close to being equal, and God help you if you happen to be a Gay Muslim. (Oh, wait they don't exist...do they?)

Nice avatar....Muslim jibberish and underneath a sword. Very peaceful.


No . No i am not joking , Yes the woman are indeed equal , please do your research

and that "jibberish " you speak of is not Muslim , its called Arabic ?



Perhaps you can explain these verses for us?

[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.




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