WTC 1/2 Collapse: I was a truther. Not any longer.

reply to post by Flow101


I don't care about truthers and if you believe what you call truthers you deserve to be deceived because cointelpro operatives infiltrate truthers all the time to create straw men and human nature being what it is guarantees that some will latch on to a movement just to exploit it for financial means. Furthermore, if you know anything about who you're dealing with here you will realize that they DON"T FIGHT the COMPETITION. They LEAD the competition in order to decay it from within.
I'm going to go one further than you in the OPPOSITE direction. Why the WTC? Why try this again after a botched attempt in 93? Why not easier targets that would have caused more damage? Let's face it, the amount of training planning, coordination, and dumb luck that was logistically involved in this operation makes it unfeasable from a any real standpoint.
If you investigate the initial attempt you will find flaws in the official story just like 9/11. You have to realize that the forces that coordinated this HATE OUR GOVERNMENT so much that they work inside of it to destroy it from within. This has been happening for a long long time so wake up and get used to it and stop being so naive.
This is the story of history, how the few constantly control the many.
I'm wondering if the buildings were not wired for "sound" long ago - like since the late 80's early 90's. Was this the explosion that William Rodriguez testified to and witnessed but wasn't allowed to go public with? How long had these buildings - at least the basements been wired with explosives?
Again my little naive friend. You simply don't know who or what you're dealing with. You are easily overtaken by the lie and deception.Especially appeals to massage or bolster your fragile ego. You know very little of this world. Start with reading the Bible cover to cover and then get back to me about the level of deception some humans will sink to in order to gain advantage over their fellows.
You see, the elite that coordinate this evil against YOU and I do not, will not sleep until they have the upper hand over us permanently. Its nothing new though - its got NOTHING TO DO with F'IN 911! This is the story of history -the history or the world. Wake up. Wake up or perish in history's wake.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by Varemia

 

LOL Verm, you just hit the nail on the head for ONCE.

Please direct us to a decidedly "perfect" demolition.

Was it a decidedly imperfect collapse as well ???

Oh , i see what you mean, the fact that the buildings look like Atomic bombs being detonated is what gives you this opinion that things just do not look right.

Even GOD must cringe when he sees such "simple" posts.

I can't find any pictures of what the debris after a controlled demolition looks like, and I have to go to class. Could you help?

Two people working on it is better than one.

reply to post by samkent


assuming this was a planned event, then the impact point of the planes could easily have been known beforehand. so it would be easy to place explosives up to the point of impact, and let the top of the tower destroy itself on the ground as it fell with no resistance.

simple. although, it obviously wasn't an exact science, and it didn't need to be. it appears that one of the charges went off early.

from the color, we can surmise that the temperature is above 1300 degrees.
and this image below? slag from a cutting torch doesn't form in that quantity on the cutting side. ever. (i'm a certified welder, and i've cut quite a bit of steel even thicker than this column.) try it. it acetylene torches leave smooth cut surfaces with slag buildup on the opposite side dripping down.

the only time you get slag on the side you cut is if you don't let the flame go all the way through, and it sprays out. you know, like if you used a thermate charge and the top metal is blown out of the way before it is completely severed.

reply to post by cartenz


6251 US deaths.

Here

That's a far cry from the 58,000 in SEA.

The US public would never tolerate the latter.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

the only time you get slag on the side you cut is if you don't let the flame go all the way through, and it sprays out. you know, like if you used a thermate charge and the top metal is blown out of the way before it is completely severed.

Unless you have inexperienced welders on site. It was a big job running 24/7. Plus it's not like you need perfect cuts in a rushed clean up operation.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

assuming this was a planned event, then the impact point of the planes could easily have been known beforehand. so it would be easy to place explosives up to the point of impact, and let the top of the tower destroy itself on the ground as it fell with no resistance.

And did the hijackers count the floors from the top down or the bottom up to hit the 'safe' zone?

Originally posted by Calex1987
but yet there are tons of engineers who will look at you and go the fire wasnt hot enough to explain the molten steel pouring out of the side of the building jet fuel alone and office supplies do NOT burn hot enough to do what your saying its been proven....and they are the first steel structure's to actually "collapse" because of fire...please if your so inclined tell me why a building that burned for 18hours straight stayed standing...it must of went threw way more hell Considering it burnt for 18hours over what 54 mins? you say your wife is an architect.....well then even she could tell you she didnt know for a fact it would come down...or the fact she really thought it would since a fire has NEVER taken a steel structure down..... i would love to argue every point of your new found belief but it would be pointless...

edit on 20-9-2011 by Calex1987 because: (no reason given)

Because the building that was on fire for 18 hours didn't get hit by an airliner.
So this "buildings don't collapse because of fire" argument is invalid.

Originally posted by Dr Love
I love the ever-growing number of "I was a truther and now I'm not" threads.

Does "their" playbook really say that this kind of reverse psychology actually works? I think a third-grader wrote the playbook.

It's even more dull-witted than that. The "inside Job" conspirators could have simply planted another bomb in the WTC like they did back in 1993 (just a bigger one), but NOPE they hade to enlist 100,000 secret gov't ninjas to sneak in and plant secret controlled dmeolitions into every nook and cranny and hide them so noone would notice. They could have had a bunch of terrorists steal a bunch of small planes and stockpile them with explosives before crashing them into the buildings instead, but NOPE they had to also stage four fake hijackings and crashed them into the buildings to cover up the secret controled demolitions with fuel fires.

Seeing they had disposable passenger jets under their control they could have also flung another passenger jet into the Pentagon, but NOPE they had to have fired a cruise missile at it and then enlist another 10,000 secret agents to manufacture fake evidence, plane fake wreckage everytwhere, and pretent they were eyewitnesses who saw a plane. They could also have used a fourth plane to crash into the Capitol building to REALLY get the peopel angry, but NOPE they dug a hole out in the middle of nowhere to make a fake crash site...and then launched a cover up to hide the fake crash site they made to fool us into thinking a plane crashed in the middle of nowhere. They could have gotten their CIA agent Bin Laden to release authentic announcements of culpability, but NOPE they had to manufacture fake videos of their fake terrorist leader announcing he was responsible for the attack he was paid to stage.

They could have staged all this to frame Iraq so we could grab their oil, but NOPE they instead staged it to frame some toilet of a country that even the Soviet Union didn't think was worth fighting over to use as a proxy to attack Iraq. After all the effort to stage a fake terrorist attack to frame a country that led to our attacking another country, we could have planted a nuke in some Iraqi depot to frame them like they framed the Taliban, but NOPE they decided to announce there were no WMD and allowed the US to become the laughingstock of the world. Even then we had a chance to steal the Iraqi's oil, but NOPE they specifically arranged things so that we had to leave Iraq with our tail between our legs and leave the economy in shambles and a new president itching to tax them out of existance. Yep, what a master plan to take over the world this was.

"The play book was written by some third-grader" my dog's butt. This "real truth behind the 9/11 attack" the truthers are warning us about sounds like the conspiracy was staged by a bunch of stoned high school dropouts who were following a Rube Goldberg comic strip. Read the above "master plan to take over the world" again and please explain to me why a truther or two wouldn't occasionally come to his senses and realize those damned fool conspiracy web sites have been feeding him a lot of horse [censored]

reply to post by samkent


the first thing you learn in welding school is how to use a torch. you can't get that slag pattern with an acetylene torch unless you really tried. they just don't cut like that. someone inexperienced with a torch won't have a smooth, even cut, and there may be stops and starts, but never dripping slag on the side you cut. the metal gets blown out the other side with the oxygen stream.

i don't believe hijackers flew the plane. ever hear of operation northwoods? they had planned to convert planes into drones, say it was full of american college students, and "hijack it". that was during the '60s. we could easily do it now.

Can you explain the dust cloud of concrete particles? Yes concrete will break into pieces from a fall and impact, what would make concrete go from a solid to a fine particle dust cloud the size of Manhattan? Ask yourself if there were helicopters that were flying at the same height as the towers (1,111 feet high) and they droped concrete walls of the same mixture concrete (which this concrete made for these tower was a mix much stronger than your everyday sidewalk concrete) would you get a dust cloud of that size and that fine of paticulate matter? No you would get broken pieces of concrete even if it was a clean free fall with nothing in the way (which the concrete that fell as you said hit other layers increasing the weight of the falling mass but slowing the impact of the concrete).

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

the first thing you learn in welding school is how to use a torch. you can't get that slag pattern with an acetylene torch unless you really tried. they just don't cut like that. someone inexperienced with a torch won't have a smooth, even cut, and there may be stops and starts, but never dripping slag on the side you cut. the metal gets blown out the other side with the oxygen stream.

They were cut with a thermal lance, not acetylene torch.

And your experience with a thermal lance Is ?

A thermal lance, thermic lance, oxygen lance, or burning bar is a tool that burns iron in the presence of pressurized oxygen to create very high temperatures for cutting. It consists of a long iron tube packed with iron rods, sometimes mixed with aluminium or magnesium rods to increase the heat output. One end of the tube is placed in a holder and oxygen is fed through the tube.

Originally posted by mileslong54
Can you explain the dust cloud of concrete particles? Yes concrete will break into pieces from a fall and impact, what would make concrete go from a solid to a fine particle dust cloud the size of Manhattan? Ask yourself if there were helicopters that were flying at the same height as the towers (1,111 feet high) and they droped concrete walls of the same mixture concrete (which this concrete made for these tower was a mix much stronger than your everyday sidewalk concrete) would you get a dust cloud of that size and that fine of paticulate matter? No you would get broken pieces of concrete even if it was a clean free fall with nothing in the way (which the concrete that fell as you said hit other layers increasing the weight of the falling mass but slowing the impact of the concrete).

edit on 21-9-2011 by mileslong54 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-9-2011 by mileslong54 because: (no reason given)

Most of the dust was the spray on fire proofing. The amount of it in the towers was almost equal in volume to the amount of concrete.

reply to post by waypastvne



same principle, see? slag doesn't resist force, it gets blown through and sticks to the opposite side as it cools and the surface tension increases.

Originally posted by TrailGator

Originally posted by DemonicUFO
Wife girlfriend whatever you know what I meant, and another thing, I heard the world trade centers were designed to take impact from the biggest planes in existence. What about all the other skyscrapers that have caught fire and never went down like these.

edit on 20-9-2011 by DemonicUFO because: (no reason given)

and you can cite this - WTC's being able to stand impact from biggest planes in existence - from what credible source? And I dont mean 'truther' sites, but the engineers and architects that actually designed the building, as they are only ones who would know....


we're waiting on that citation....

Ask and ye shall receive

Gosh, this is such a fallacy it is absurd. Jet A burns at less than 600 degrees F. Structural steel has a melting point of 1000-1200 degrees F. Let's also remember that the steel was covered in fireproofing material. Not to mention that most of the Jet A was consumed in the fireball that EXITED the building, burning up in mere SECONDS. Contrary to popular myth, it didn't continue burning after the initial fireball. So this argument is just hogwash top to bottom.

Ever heard of material creep? It occurs in every steel or other material, used in construction. Even a 4 inch thick steel rod, under stress of let's say 10kg[98 N of force] will deform slowly. But to notice this deformation you would need millions of years. But under more stress and with higher temperature, creeping of material is serious problem.
I'm chemical engineer but i also have a "engineering materials" course.
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Jdawg9909

Originally posted by deltabomb
Isnt it strange how so many witnesses and truthers died in mysterious accidents or commited suicide after this event. Heres an incitful video to watch. www.youtube.com...

Hmmm and the fact that Flight 93 touched down in Cleveland before heading to Shanksville. Where they found NO BODIES in the wreckage.

Where the hell did all those people go?

That's a pretty crazy video.... I believe the Govt had their hand in quieting or killing all of those people on the video... The creepiest part is the Deborah Palfrey (DC Madam) part when she was on the Alex Jones show, this is a lady who is ready to go after the Govt, she has damning evidence, and she states MULTIPLE times on the show that she was not suicidal and was NOT going to kill herself, and then 2 weeks later she is found dead (apparent suicide) right before the trial was set to begin... I'm surprised more people arent talking about that story alone...That is truly messed up...

reply to post by mileslong54


The floors were made with a special light weight concrete. I would expect it to be more brittle than standard. As such I would expect it to dustify (new word allert) to a grteater extent.

Also consider that boiling mass on the way down. One person commented that the largest piece of office equipment he saw was a piece of a telephone keyboard.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
I mentioned this before and I dont think anyone saw it......

Want to mess up debunkers lives and the make the perps sweat? Investigate everything about 9/11, 1 second before the first plane hit.

Who funded it? Did the 'terrorists' use the wargames as cover for the attack? How did they know about the war games? Did fema have any foreknowledge or just plain luck they were set up on pier 92 on Sept 10th 2001 anticipating a terrorist attack (exercise)? What did Ptech have to do with the FAA software? Did they electronically hijack the aircraft? Who trained the hijackers? Were Israeli agents living next door to the terrorists in the U.S for years? Did Israel play any part in the execution of the attack? Were american intelligence fooled? Electronically hijacked?


Start with these and forget thermite, cutting charges, pullit and whatever black hole conspiracy is promoted.

Just wanted to let you know that someone saw this. It's a great list of questions, and a lot of the answers are pretty easy to find in legitimate media sources - I came across most of it through this timeline, which lists sources clearly.

Just wanted to give it a little bump in the hopes that others will do some digging into those questions...

Wrong.

But Good, now you can quit ATS, I'm so tired of these weak postings.




reply to post by Gando702