Geo-engineering trial follows in US slipstream

reply to post by burntheships

Sir, Regarding “Trial aims to hose down warming climate” (FT.com, September 14), parties in the UK may be conducting a trial to test the feasibility of eventually injecting particulate matter into the atmosphere to cool terrestrial temperatures, but the US has been in full swing at it for nearly a decade. Dozens of aerospace, defence and technical companies like ours have been advising into the initiative for many years. More IN Letters Genesis of Nazism predates Brüning

The cost of expanding higher education is – zero China is right carbon tax is just a trade barrier Transparency of IFRS standards is worth preserving In 1997, Edward Teller co-authored a white paper, “Prospects for physics-based modulation of global change”, where he advocated the large-scale introduction of metal particulates into the upper atmosphere to apply an effective “sun screen”. A subsequent series of tests to create a polymarised and ionised mixture of certain metals, including aluminium, barium, thorium and selenium, among other contents, was perfected and tested in US facilities. A joint public-private operation, initially called “Cloverleaf”, was operationalised and subsequently supported by US state and federal weather modification legislature. Throughout the continental US, dozens of tanker and other aircraft are daily applying thousands of gallons of aerosol nano-particulates that serve several objectives, including the purported ability to reflect UV radiation. Similar operations are being conducted in Canada and parts of Europe. What the actual secondary effects of this operation are, including human health impacts, are currently unknown or undisclosed. The Bristol university team may be wise to “hose down” those facts as well. In the meantime, anthropogenic climate impact is in this regard, quite real indeed

Please show me where there is anything that has to do with the pentagon or black budgets in this letter? Just because the word defence is mentioned doesn't mean the pentagon or black budget is involved. Again you show that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. A black budget program would not involve other countries nor would they mention other companies involved,because as I posted before the Black Budget is highly classified and is that way to protect national security. It's that simple. The pentagon doesn't use black budgets with public operations or they would have to explain what they are doing with that black budge money. I take it you have heard of the Freedom of Information Act.

reply to post by cenpuppie


Yes, only they refer to it as "Solar Radiatoin Management" .

They wont admit to it, however every argument you have ever heard by the so called
skeptics has been disproven.

Sulfur Aerosols in Jet Fuel - Check

A Fleet of Modified Aircraft - Check

Sholarly Papers w/Methods of Delivery - Check.

Airports With Cargo Hubs For The Sulfates - Check

Option 1: Increasing Sulfur Content of Jet Fuel in Commercial Fleet

This option involves increasing the sulfur content of jet fuel for the commercial fleet of jet aircraft (around 20,000 planes today) from 0.04% to 0.6 and increasing to 0.9% by 2050. Sulfur dioxide gas is emitted in the turbine exhaust and ideally, nearly all of it converted to sulfuric acid gas and then to sulfuric acid aerosol. The sulfuric acid aerosol floats around in the stratosphere for 1-2 years and reflects sunlight. The level in jet fuel is raised each year to match increased greenhouse gas emissions.

www.library4science.com...
www.global-warming-geo-engineering.org...

Bases and Airports World Wide have been studied, and are prepared for
use in GeoEngineering releasing atmosheric aerosols into the air.

Regional dispersal from several bases provides fuel cost savings and particulate is
spread globally via winds. A notional basing strategy is shown (Figure 4) with arrows
indicating the direction prevailing winds will carry the released particulate.

Care is taken to choose bases capable of supporting high-tempo geoengineering operations
and with the land available to allow any ramp or hanger expansion necessary....

DHL recently built a state-of-the-art Central Asia Cargo Hub at Hong Kong Airport, the faculty is designed to handle 2.6M tonnes annually and required investment of approximately $1B.8
For aircraft operations, fuel burn is estimated using the mission profile shown

people.ucalgary.ca...

4.1. Airplanes


Existing small jet fighter planes, like the F-15C Eagle (Figure 2a), are capable of flying into the lower stratosphere in the tropics, while in the Arctic, larger planes, such as the KC-135 Stratotanker or KC-10 Extender (Figure 2b), are capable of reaching the required altitude. ......


The Northrop Grumman RQ-4 Global Hawk can reach 20 km without a pilot but costs twice as much as an F-15C. Current designs have a payload of 1-1.5 tons. Clearly it is possible to design an autonomous specialized aircraft to loft sulfuric acid precursors into the lower stratosphere, but the current analysis focuses on existing aircraft.

Options for dispersing gases from planes include the addition of sulfur to the fuel, which would release the aerosol through the exhaust system of the plane, or the attachment of a nozzle to release the sulfur from its own tank within the plane, .......

The military has already manufactured more planes than would be required for this geoengineering scenario, potentially reducing the costs of this method. Since climate change is an important national security issue [Schwartz and Randall, 2003], the military could be directed to carry out this mission with existing aircraft at minimal additional cost. ...

Unlike the small jet fighter planes, the KC-135 and KC-10 are used to refuel planes mid-flight and already have a nozzle installed. In the tropics, one option might be for the tanker to fly to the upper troposphere, and then fighter planes would ferry the sulfur gas up into the stratosphere (Figure 2b). It may also be possible to have a tanker tow a glider with a hose to loft the exit nozzle into the stratosphere.

climate.envsci.rutgers.edu...

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Ah you do see that this is a matter of National Security, correct?
Under that auspice, there will be no freedom of information.

You surely understand the concept of warfare, correct?
And surely you understand terrorism must be curtailed. Yes?

Teller advocated for a massive application of metal particulates, among other materials, into the atmosphere to create a reflective “metallic sun screen” that results in lowered UV radiation and assumed
cooling.

But this metallic screen was also discovered to possess the inherent capability to act as a transmission or amplification “web” for various military directed energy weapons and for tactical weather modification, as well
as a potential suspension and delivery medium for bio-warfare purposes www.economist.com...

reply to post by burntheships

Every day across the US, Canada and many parts of Europe, high-altitude mission-specific tanker, civil and other aircraft are spraying hundreds of metric tons of polymerised and ionised sub-micron barium, thorium, uranium and aluminum, among other materials (including mercury and arsenic), under the ambiguity and abstraction of a benign UN public-private atmospheric and geo-engineering program directed at countering “global warming.”

Do you have any evidence that supports this? I will guess no. Also where are all these planes flying from,how are they spraying and what about the people who have to do maintenance,refueling and the making of these chemicals where go they come from? I take it you are like the rest of those who swear there is just so much evidence out there but are unable to provide that here,would that be a fair assumption?

And BTW the reading comprehension comment is not an insult it is merely an observation.

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by burntheships

 

Also where are all these planes flying from,how are they spraying

Hundreds of thousands of people have reported seeing, yes

what about the people who have to do maintenance,refueling

Hello, you know...the MIC.Regular Airports, see the Calgary PDF.

the making of these chemicals where go they come from?

Thats where The Black Budget comes in. You know, companies like Boeing,
Booz, etc.

reply to post by burntheships

You surely understand the concept of warfare, correct? And surely you understand terrorism must be curtailed. Yes?

See now you are just heading way off topic.Now geoengineering has to do with stopping terrorism and warfare,really? You started this thread and it is about Geo engineering trials yet you seem to throw warfare and terrorism into this thread. How about you stay on topic and if you want to start a new tread about warfare and terrorism using geo engineering with it go for it,but as far as the OP and what it is about you know it has nothing to do with terrorism or warfare. Can you not even stay on topic in your own thread?

reply to post by burntheships

Hundreds of thousands of people have reported seeing, yes

Evidence of this or maybe a link to where these hundreds of thousands of people see these planes everyday? Also with metric tons of materials being sprayed daily as you say, wouldn't there be evidence all over your house ,car,your animals and your yards. Funny but I haven't seen any of these things with any foreign substance on them have you?

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h

See now you are just heading way off topic.Now geoengineering has to do with stopping terrorism and warfare,really?

It has always been there. Here, let me show you some more technical papers,
and some explanations. That might help.

VTRPE (variable terrain radio parabolic equation) computer model. It is designed to provide the reader with a summary of the physics and numerical methods used in the VTRPE model, along with detailed instructions on the model's use and operation. The VTRPE computer program is a range-dependent, tropospheric microwave propagation model that is based upon the split-step Fourier parabolic wave equation algorithm. The nominal applicable frequency range of the model is VHF to K-band. The VTRPE program is able to make predictions for microwave propagation over both land and water. The VTRPE code is a full-wave propagation model that solves the electromagnetic wave equations for the complex electric and magnetic radiation fields. The model accounts for the effects of nonuniform atmospheric refractivity fields, variable surface terrain, and varying surface dielectric properties on microwave propagation. The code is written in ANSI-77 FORTRAN with MILSPEC-1753 FORTRAN language extensions

www.abstractstorm.com...

So what would VTRPE have to do with aerosols?

This computer radio frequency propagation program deals with radio waves and enables the RFMP system to visually see the terrain of a battlefield in three dimensions on a television-type screen.

The RFMP system also depends on a satellites to supplement the images of a battlefield picture obtained from the ground, thus producing the 3-dimensional images. In providing an interactive picture portraying in the radar screen, the RFMP system allows the computer operator to develop familiarity with the "environment" before a war mission occurs by playing a variety of "what if?" virtual warfare scenarios on his computer screen. Since all major modes of radio frequency propagation are modeled in his computer (the RFMP system), special, sometimes counter-intuitive, cases can be examined in detail and exploited during a battle. Initially, the VTRPE computer program only worked accurately over water and along coastal areas but not over land masses because the system's radar waves required an atmospheric condition known as "ducting," over land, to operate accurately.


This "ducting" problem was solved by releasing an aerosol, a mixture of barium salts into the atmosphere over the United States. Thus, they can make an atmospheric radio frequency "duct" with a base of barium aerosol released from aircraft.

One of the researchers, the physicist from Brookhaven, explained how the process works: The chemical and electrical characteristics of the mixture cause moisture to stay in the clouds. The aerosol sets up an electrical and chemical environmental that supports RF ducting for the RFMP/VTRPE warfare system."The mixture of barium salt from the aerosol when sprayed in a straight line will also provide a ducting path form point A to point B and will enable high frequency communications along that path, even over the curvature of the Earth, in both directions," he said. "Enemy high frequency communications can be monitored easier with the straight line A to B ducting medium."

www.libertylobby.org...

reply to post by burntheships

Hello, you know...the MIC.Regular Airports, see the Calgary PDF.

You do know your calgary pdf is a study on geoengineering right?

This study investigates means of transporting quantities geoengineering payload to altitude and releasing it at specified release rates. A variety of systems including airplanes, airships, rockets, guns, and suspended pipes are examined with a goal of lifting 1 million tonnes to altitude per year; we also evaluate 3 and 5 MT/year for a few delivery systems.

Again reading comprehension comes into play here. Did you read the pdf or just skip over parts to get something that works for your beliefs of geo engineering. Again notice the words this study,no not implementation it is a final report on the study of what they could use to to possibly disperse the aerosols in the atmosphere.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Yes, and yes respectivly.
Any further questions?

reply to post by burntheships


Again you are heading off topic and you seem to not even realize it. This is your thread and you just don't want to stay on topic, amazing. Since you just want to run off in all different directions and not stay on topic I will let you enjoy it and keep up the good work.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Afterthought

 

That's nice. But I notice that there is nothing about climate or influencing climate in that list.
Ok, you win. But what can we call the whole climate change influencing thing now since "geoengineering" means something other than the generally accepted term? We've been using the wrong name for it I guess.

edit on 2/8/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I believe that THEY are going to decide what it is called.
In regards to the website discussing careers in geo-engineering that touched upon all aspects EXCEPT SRM technology such as aerosols, I believe the main reason for this is because the military will have total control over this. Why? Because it will also be used for weather warfare.
Just as they are preparing to decide whether or not cloud seeding should be considered geo-engineering, they will decide everything else as well. As I see it, each avenue will have it's own specialized box that will be defined as THEY see fit. They simply have to put a czar in place and then announce their plans.

AP Newsbreak: Obama looks at climate engineering

www.breitbart.com...

WASHINGTON (AP) - The president's new science adviser said Wednesday that global warming is so dire, the Obama administration is discussing radical technologies to cool Earth's air.

The topic wouldn't be complete without some fearmongering thrown in not once but twice just to make sure that everyone is clear on how dire the situation is:

Twice in a half-hour interview, Holdren compared global warming to being "in a car with bad brakes driving toward a cliff in the fog."

We've also been conditioned to link fear with desperation.

But Holdren noted that shooting particles into the air—making an artificial volcano as one Nobel laureate has suggested—could have grave side effects and would not completely solve all the problems from soaring greenhouse gas emissions. So such actions could not be taken lightly, he said.

Still, "we might get desperate enough to want to use it," he added.

So, all of the language is there. They want us to believe that they want to save us and the planet. The article also mentions that policies are being written in the event that it must be used.

We've seen so many times how the "problem, reaction, solution" scenario has been used time and time again. At this moment, many people have to rely on the government to put food on the table and I'm sure that some people will look to the government to save us from the sun's deadly rays, too. At least that's what they will use when they are ready to announce their use of the technology.

Considering the other types of geo-engineering the website I linked to earlier discusses, I'm left wondering if there are numerous tunnel systems beneath the surface of Mars.

We already know that the Earth has changed in many ways, so why are we so afraid now?
We know that some deserts used to be covered with green. We know that some lands were once covered by oceans. Islands form, then disappear.
They are power hungry control freaks. Psychopaths who desire the role of gods. As soon as they can engineer the climate and the ecosystems, they have gotten one step closer to complete control. Sometimes, I think that if they had the technology to stop the Earth's rotation in order to add a few more hours to the day, they would. Why? I can think of two reasons.
1. So the slaves would have more time to work.
2. Just because they can.

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by tsurfer2000h

 

Oh, we agree comepletely, geoengineering would destroy the natural
balance of the atmosphere, potentially devastating planet earth.

I think geoengineering is a great idea. Your fear is based on the fact that it is new

and experimental. Once you read through a Geoengineering textbook, your fear will

disappear. Some computer models would help us get it just right.

Originally posted by FusionPower

I think geoengineering is a great idea. Your fear is based on the fact that it is new

and experimental. Once you read through a Geoengineering textbook, your fear will

disappear. Some computer models would help us get it just right.

The entire concept of Geoengineering has been predicated on society via
the scam/scare of Global Warming.

You seem double minded.

Originally posted by FusionPower
reply to post by BBalazs

 

They may have to admit that global warming has come to an end.

We have entered into a global cooling era.

I guess Al Gore was wrong. www.abovetopsecret.com...

hmmm.....

Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by FusionPower

I think geoengineering is a great idea. Your fear is based on the fact that it is new

and experimental. Once you read through a Geoengineering textbook, your fear will

disappear. Some computer models would help us get it just right.

The entire concept of Geoengineering has been predicated on society via
the scam/scare of Global Warming.

You seem double minded.

Originally posted by FusionPower
reply to post by BBalazs

 

They may have to admit that global warming has come to an end.

We have entered into a global cooling era.

I guess Al Gore was wrong. www.abovetopsecret.com...

hmmm.....

Geoenginering is just another branch of science. What are you afraid of?

I was talking about the Al Gore hoax that global warming is man made.

The earth is cooling right now. It has been warming and cooling for millions of

years. So what?

Originally posted by FusionPower

The earth is cooling right now. It has been warming and cooling for millions of

years. So what?

Then what would be the need for a global sunshade,
as Al Gore has called for?

You seem double minded.

Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by FusionPower

The earth is cooling right now. It has been warming and cooling for millions of

years. So what?

Then what would be the need for a global sunshade,
as Al Gore has called for?

You seem double minded.

We seek the goldilocks scenario. Not too hot....not too cold.....best case scenario for

a booming economy. Get it?