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learn the language people!

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posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 09:44 AM
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this applies to every immigrant that comes to my country and makes ZERO effort to learn the language, assimilate into the culture in any way and give you stupid goofy looks when you have to speak to them.

some years ago in my early 20's my city had an influx of russian immigrants. ok fine. but the problem was some of them didnt even bother to learn the language, they'd give you dirty looks and basically made annoyancess of themselves. not all did this but some did and they stuck out like sore thumbs. i understand learning a new language isnt easy but i've always wanted to learn a new language and aside from latin...i've made an effort to learn other languages, not for any other reason other than i wanted to.

recently we've had a mexican population explosion in my area and it seems nary a one speaks english. i worked at a gas station years ago and we'd get mexicans in and you'd ring their stuff up and tell them total and they'd give you a blank look and just shove a fistful of dollar bills in your hand. i had a problem with this on a couple different levels. first problem i had was if they cant speak the language, if they pay for things, how do they know the person checking them out wont try to rip them off? my second thought was how hard is it to learn just very basic rudimentary english to ensure you can get by in life without people thinking you're being a hardass refusing to learn the language.

i also have to wonder if some immigrants even have a desire to learn the language or assimilate into culture in anyway at all. i ask this because it seems immigrants from different parts of the world love to come here but some of them dont seem very eager to fit in at all. now i understand my country doesnt have an official language but im wondering if maybe we need one. other countries have policies concerning the learning of their language prior to becoming a citizen so why not my country? is it THAT hard to learn a little english and some history about the country you've come to live in? its not impossible, i know that. if i can learn smatterings of german french latin spanish japanese then it cant be very hard for a person to learn a smattering of english. i dont expect them to be fluent but the attempt alone means more than them actually using the language.

i love living in a country that is open to everyone from all different walks of life and cultures but more and more often those who come here expect the country to conform to them and sadly that isnt how the world works. part of immigrating to another country is fitting in, or at least making an attempt to fit in. i know if i went to another country that didnt speak english and acted as though they should learn my language i'd be ridiculed for it. i'd get ignored and treated poorly. i cant imagine living in another country and not making any attempt to fit in in any way shape or form. even worse, to start a family in that new country and then teaching your children those same bad habits, that everyone has to conform to you.




posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 10:07 AM
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ThePrankMonkey,

It does take a while to learn a new language; the children of this immigrant will learn the language before the adults will.

I am American but was born In Puerto Rico my first language was Spanish my second English, the English I knew at the time was the school English, and I though that I Knew English until at the age of 21 I came to US, oh Boy!!!!!!!!!My English did not sound and was not understood by the English speaking people in here that make me into withdrawing from speaking.

I took about 4 to 5 years to really learn the English (American way) and still even when I speak and write you still can see my problems with the language after so many years in the US. I went from teaching English to Spanish people to teaching Spanish to English speaking people.

I does take time.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 10:09 AM
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I totaly agree prank-
My dad lives in London- which is very populated by different cultures and immigrants... He had a russian girl try and steal his cat lol

But to the point- i find that they can be rude and they dont learn our language- not even a little bit.

I am not a racist person at all and i love learning about other people and their cultures- but come on- we let you in- can you not at least have some manners?!



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 10:37 AM
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You're telling me about this problem; I'm from Texas!

Some Mexican immigrants lack motivation to learn English and I really can't blame them. Businesses create an extra banner/brochure/billboard to promote their products in Spanish. It seems at every corner they're trying to appeal to the increasing Spanish-speaking population. How do you encourage non-English speaking people to learn a new language when there doesn't seem to be a need for it?

It will only get worse.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 11:16 AM
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couldnt agree more.

When I first moved to Germany with my wife, I spoke not a single word of German. After two years of studying, speaking it everyday, I would say I'm fluent. obviously not as much as a native speaker, but I can easily get by. The problem is, these people when they first get to the country only have each other to rely on. So, the only language they can communicate in is their native (obviously). For example, there's a large fishing industry here, 98% of it is run by Portugese. They'll fly in their family to work the fishing industry, so they're surrounded by other Portugese speaking people, and never have a need to learn the language.

[thread hijacking]On a side note, it makes me pretty upset that here is my wife, who has two educations, perfectly fluent in the language, can read and write it, but the government is giving her a hard time about immigrating to the states. My question is, how is it that these other people are able to get into the country so easily and get by?? Is it because she's TOO educated?? Speaks the language too well?[/thread hijacking]

I lived in Southern AZ for a good majority of my life, and know all too well what kind of problems can arise from communication barriers. If we go to another country, (outside of english speaking ones of course) they're going to expect us to speak that language...why the hell should we have to let them come here and then make us learn their language??!!



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 11:19 AM
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Bangin-I am so with you on the extra banners and signs. Where I live, our city is divided by a river. East side and west side. I live on the east side where there is a huge Hispanic population. All of our signs are in Spanish.
Even the Bud Lite signs. BUT! That's not what bothers me.

Every time I buy a product that needs assembly, or a cosmetic type cream, makeup, everything is in English, French AND Spanish!

I guess we can't blame the immigrants. Blame this all on the Free Trade Agreement!



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 11:45 AM
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thats part of the problem, companies and the even the government have made everything in spanish AND english so there is no incentive for spanish speaking people to actually learn a new language. this doesnt cover those who come from countries where spanish isnt spoken, so why the special interest pandering?

i bring this up because my city just came out with a spanish version of the yellow pages. great! now are they going to call all these businesses and expect them to speak spanish to them? seems rather stupid to have a phone book in spanish if at least 90% of the companies within that phone book use english speaking people to answer their phones. still gonna have to speak english!


christ on a cracker!



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 12:38 PM
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Spanish is the language most spoken by population, while English is the choice international language of business.

Most Spanish migrants do not know how to speak or write also. I am talking by experience working with migrant workers in the south.

And for me being bilingual and with a colleague degree I have to say doors has opened for me in all kind of jobs.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 12:55 PM
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As an immigrant living in foreign country I absolutely agree that one should learn the language of a country they are living in. If you want to adapt to life in another country, and I mean really fit in, language is one of the most important things.
If you can read and write in your own language, and if you are under the age of 40, there is no excuse for not learning. Older people, however, they really have difficulties with learning languages.
When my dad started working with foreign companies back home in Bosnia, he was required to at least try to learn english. He really tried, but he couldn't. In the end he gave up. He already speaks german, he learned it when he was young without much difficulties, but english was another story.

I can proudly say that I am fluent in 5 different languages



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 02:39 PM
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Just another reason why English, is the official language spoken in US, but it is not the national language of US and is a reason why.

The reason is that our nation is multibuilingual and multi ethnic.

Early on in American history, English co-existed with German, and then eventually with French and Spanish.

Thus, the Articles of Confederation along with other documents printed by the first Continental Congress were published jointly in German and English.

This eventually lead to the 1837 Pennsylvania law which required schools to provide instruction in both of these languages, establishing the first ever bilingual education law.

Similarly, California also established laws declaring the state officially bilingual (in existence for only 30 years) and printed its first state constitutional proceedings in Spanish and English.

By the turn of the century, Czech, Dutch, Italian, Norwegian and Polish bilingual education programs had also been implemented throughout the country (National Education Association).

Most states have adopted Inglish as the official language but it can not be made national language.

Yes it is a few propositions to it in the congress but not body wants to get in the bad side of our rich miltibuilingual nation. This is a link of all the times in the US history that the English language as a national language has been brought to the light to die when nobody in congress wants to get their hands on it.


maxweber.hunter.cuny.edu...



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Yes it is a few propositions to it in the congress but not body wants to get in the bad side of our rich miltibuilingual nation. This is a link of all the times in the US history that the English language as a national language has been brought to the light to die when nobody in congress wants to get their hands on it.


maxweber.hunter.cuny.edu...


Yeah, they don't want to touch it , due to the fact that they're afraid of losing votes from the Spanish speaking people.. which is kind of rediculous, 'cause those that often scream the loudest, often claim to represent the "NON- Documented" immigrants that aren't eligable to vote anyhow..



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 08:17 PM
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Welcome to my world folks. Substitute French for Spanish and there you go.
I remember back in the 70's when the breweries would go on strike, we couldn't import Amer. beer until the labels were in both languages, and this was in BC. About as far away from the French community you can get. Yes I know the French aren't immigrants but you get the idea.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 08:21 PM
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thethrall_nb,

It is like everything in US politics are the ones than rule, and for me hey English is the language spoken in this country I don't see anything wrong for making it the national language.

But them Instructions will come only in one language,Right?



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 08:37 PM
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If you apply for citizenship I know you have to take some form of a test, showing you are somewhat proficient in English....

Seems to me we should have some kind of program that hunts out these illegal aliens based upon their ability to speak English - obviously we all interact with such people on a day-to-day basis, so it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to enforce.

A little off topic, but one thing I hated when I lived in Germany was that when I tried to use my German, which was and is still pretty good, they would immediately start speaking in English



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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I'm not defending anyone that doesn't try...but I like to think I'm a fairly intelligent person and tried with all my might for a few years to learn Spanish (the reverse example) and couldn't.

I just couldn't. Maybe it was too late as I learned English (of course) then German while I was young (well enough to get by), but by the time I figured out I needed to know Spanish I just couldn't learn it.

From around 25 to 30 I took adult education language courses at Emory, I immersed myself in Spanish culture with remote destination travel, I traveled in multi-lingual circles and I practiced all I could, anywhere I could.

But bottom line, I sucked and when I travelled abroad they let me know it.
Anything I learned I've long since brain flushed, and most of it was due to the attitide that my efforts weren't good enough by the native speakers (all of which preferred speaking English to me anyway than listening to me struggle), so I go out of my way to NOT be one of those ugly American eye rollers when immigrants or vacationers have a hard time here.

Ideally, I wish all of America was bi or tri lingual, as the rest of the world pretty much has given up on us learning their language when we travel so thankfully they learn English. But we just can't bother I suppose, or in my case...aren't smart enough.


So learn MY language you foreigners!!!


Just kidding.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 08:49 PM
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I immigrated to australia from Brunei when i was 9... Luckily i knew english as i grew up with it as well as Bahasa Melayu coz my Dad is scottish and i grew up in a mixed community (western and eastern) so i didnt have any problems language wise.

But you do need to understand how hard it is to adapt to a new culture, especially when also trying to hold on to your roots... I've pretty much become 100% westernised, but when i visit family in malaysia i can tell they are upset and dissapointed that i am so western.

It is quite hard to adapt when your not young, i was 9 and had a semi western upbringing so adapting for me wasnt an issue, but many people cant adapt... also many do know the language but are very self concious of their flaws in speaking (usually from ridicule by native speakers) and thus choose not to speak unless 100% neccesary.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 09:37 PM
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It's interesting to me how when arguing why it's important for foreigners to learn english, those of you who actually seem to have the biggest problem with their shortcomings say it's for their own good. And speaking of history and assimilating to the culture as well as learning the native language of the country you're moving to; how is it the american history goes again?

People usually do their best to fit in as it generally makes things work out more smoothly for them. For some, this may take longer than for others. So just relax, people.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
I'm not defending anyone that doesn't try...but I like to think I'm a fairly intelligent person and tried with all my might for a few years to learn Spanish (the reverse example) and couldn't.

I just couldn't. Maybe it was too late as I learned English (of course) then German while I was young (well enough to get by), but by the time I figured out I needed to know Spanish I just couldn't learn it.

From around 25 to 30 I took adult education language courses at Emory, I immersed myself in Spanish culture with remote destination travel, I traveled in multi-lingual circles and I practiced all I could, anywhere I could.

But bottom line, I sucked and when I travelled abroad they let me know it.
Anything I learned I've long since brain flushed, and most of it was due to the attitide that my efforts weren't good enough by the native speakers (all of which preferred speaking English to me anyway than listening to me struggle), so I go out of my way to NOT be one of those ugly American eye rollers when immigrants or vacationers have a hard time here.

Ideally, I wish all of America was bi or tri lingual, as the rest of the world pretty much has given up on us learning their language when we travel so thankfully they learn English. But we just can't bother I suppose, or in my case...aren't smart enough.


So learn MY language you foreigners!!!


Just kidding.


Everyone, everyone.... can pick up at least a little bit of another language, i mean i'm NO where near fluent in Spanish, but i do know enough to find the restroom and order a beer .. All the important things.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 12:01 AM
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Rant,

The only reason you did not learn to speak Spanish is because you did not have a good teacher like me, my success rate at teaching Spanish is very good. ha, ha, ha,


Spanish is a hard language to learn but once you go over the basics and learn the pronunciation the rest is easy.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 12:46 AM
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I am comfortable with a few languages.

To me it's equally offensive to make out that English ought to be a universally accepted language as it is to settle in a country and make no effort to develop conversational skills in its dominant language, for everyday use.

English is a bastardisation of several languages and American English is a bastardised bastardisation.






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