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Cyprus starts drilling in contested area in defiance of Turkey

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posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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There have been on going talks for years & years, Roc is now a multi national country things have changed over the years.. the oil exploration would benefit both Greek & Turkish Cypriots, Greek & Turkish Cypriots get on very well living amonst each other in the UK. Cyprus is Cypriot be it Greek or Turkish speaking Cypriots!! it does not belong to Turkey.




posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by harryhaller
 


Senseless fighting, will American/Israeli greed know no bounds? As much as I would like Turkey to stick it to Israel, I have a friend in the IDF and wouldn't wish her harm. The only change from this American greed can come from the people. I swear we should just storm D.C.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Konstantinos
You keep saying it's illegal to drill in the location they are drilling, can you provide a source please?

I never said illegal . It is UNLAWFULL is all I said .
Just think about it for a while and I believe you will be able to see where the LAW matters most in this debate .


I have a ton of sources citing international law (backed and recognized by all the members of the UN since 1982) that state that Cyprus has every right to drill in those waters.

I think you are confusing the LAW with LEGAL .

The whole underlying issue here is that despite the rest of the world, Turkey does not recognize the Republic of Cyprus and so seeks to impose their own will. This is bullying and intimidation.

Well , why ?
Only in 1974 these Greek Cypriots attempted to cleanse the island from Turks by force .
What should compell the Turks to accept the existence of Greek Cypriots while the very same Greek Cypriots continue to deny the very existence of Turks ?
Of course Turks won't recognise a country which was founded upon ethnically cleansing the Turks .

Would any other country accept such an immoral treatment ? Why should the Turks accept their own killers in Cyprus as LAWFULL and only owners of the island .




Keep in mind, ROC did not ever claim exclusive rights to the drilling area, so they didn't shut the door on anyone else doing exploratory work as well.



well , that is where they shot themselves on the foot .
Next the Turkish Cypriots will find a huge site and then there will be no unification of Cyprus , ever .
If Greeks are going to ignore the Turkish claim of right according to LAW , well , Why condemn Turks if they do the same at the end .
If Cypriots weren't this adamant to send the Turk away from the island , maybe they can be taken seriously by Turks .
They can get all the support from all over the world but one thing doesn't change ; Turks have LAWFULL right of access to all resources in the eastern med .
Just like all the other eastern med people I dare say .

Treating the Turk unfairly is so inbred in some people , they don't see that they are acting as if the Turk is wrong all the time , everytime .

Make no mistake , it is just racism & religionism at it's finest .



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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I've heard this argument before. "Turkey is right, the rest of the world is wrong". Hey if that helps you sleep at night, sure.

Your distinction between lawful and legal is splitting hairs.

Lawful. In accordance with the law of the land; according to the law; permitted, sanctioned, or justified by law. “Lawful” properly implies a thing conformable to or enjoined by law; “Legal”, a thing in the form or after the manner of law or binding by law. A writ or warrant issuing from any court, under color of law, is a “legal” process however defective. See legal.- Dictionary of Law, 1893

If something is lawful then the next natural step is it's legality.

Legal. Latin legalis. Pertaining to the understanding, the exposition, the administration, the science and the practice of law. Implied or imputed in law. Opposed to actual. - Dictionary of Law, 1893
Therefore, if you have something designated as illegal, that it can be assumed that it is unlawful when we are speaking of international law.
From the Turkish perspective, I'm sure it's perfectly lawful, from the international perspective, I would see a strong challenge to the opposite.


edit on 19-9-2011 by Konstantinos because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by Konstantinos
I've heard this argument before. "Turkey is right, the rest of the world is wrong". Hey if that helps you sleep at night, sure.
Your distinction between lawful and legal is splitting hairs.





Lawful. In accordance with the law of the land; according to the law; permitted, sanctioned, or justified by law. “Lawful” properly implies a thing conformable to or enjoined by law; “Legal”, a thing in the form or after the manner of law or binding by law. A writ or warrant issuing from any court, under color of law, is a “legal” process however defective. See legal.- Dictionary of Law, 1893

If something is lawful then the next natural step is it's legality.

Legal. Latin legalis. Pertaining to the understanding, the exposition, the administration, the science and the practice of law. Implied or imputed in law. Opposed to actual. - Dictionary of Law, 1893
Therefore, if you have something designated as illegal, that it can be assumed that it is unlawful when we are speaking of international law.
From the Turkish perspective, I'm sure it's perfectly lawful, from the international perspective, I would see a strong challenge to the opposite.


edit on 19-9-2011 by Konstantinos because: (no reason given)



What is good for the gander is also good for the goose .

That is what Turks are saying and those who oppose this perspective will make you believe that the aforementioned Turks are just brainless dolts .

Don't fall for it , nothing could be further from the truth .



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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A common sense solution would be dispatch some of the NATO ships off Liyba to the region and position them between each faction, with the warning that whoever fires first will get sent to the bottom, regardless of what country they belong to.

Tell both parties they can drill where they want.

If one party says, "But your ships are where we want to drill."

The response would be "Fine, you can drill here once you send your warships back to port."

I'm all about the 2nd amendment...but in this case, if you remove the weapons, you will ease tensions.

This is one case where a world policeman would do just fine, as long as they were willing to actually do the job.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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Sir/Miss/Mrs.

The right to excavate resources that sovereignty alone distinguishes through a rational process of elimination should not be typed as " defiance "



This is what many members within ats seek to find in the terms of " disinfo "



we rock, now for the subliminal message.....



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
A common sense solution would be dispatch some of the NATO ships off Liyba to the region and position them between each faction, with the warning that whoever fires first will get sent to the bottom, regardless of what country they belong to.


Was well pointed out by a former member of ats back in 2010, you would be surprised at the amount of information that is available, but i would point out, that it requires a thought process to make heads and tales of such events and future events.




posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by Canned2na
reply to post by harryhaller
 


Senseless fighting, will American/Israeli greed know no bounds? As much as I would like Turkey to stick it to Israel, I have a friend in the IDF and wouldn't wish her harm. The only change from this American greed can come from the people. I swear we should just storm D.C.


America isn't involved in this yet just an American company that is partnered with an Israeli company. Hopefully we won't get involved with this because it has nothing to do with us.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by 23432

What is good for the gander is also good for the goose .

That is what Turks are saying and those who oppose this perspective will make you believe that the aforementioned Turks are just brainless dolts .

Don't fall for it , nothing could be further from the truth .



Ummmm, what???

I made the point that by international law, that the Turkish invasion of Cyprus is both unlawful and illegal, what comparison are you drawing here with Cypriot acts that are similarly condemned by international law?

The point to the drilling is that it is internationally lawful, and legal as the location is within ROC EEZ waters.
Just because Turkey doesn't recognize the validity of the Cypriot Republic (while the rest of the world does) does not mean they have the right to send in warships to "escort" their own exploration vessels.
That's a blatantly hostile action.
edit on 20-9-2011 by Konstantinos because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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Update :

Turkish PM calls Cyprus, Israel drilling "madness"

Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan described offshore gas drilling by estranged ally Israel and Cyprus as "madness" on Wednesday, raising the stakes in a confrontation over potentially huge deposits in the eastern Mediterranean.

"The Greek Cypriot administration and Israel are engaging in oil exploration madness in the Mediterranean," Turkish state news agency Anatolian quoted Erdogan as telling Turkish journalists in New York ahead of the U.N. General Assembly meeting.

"Actually, the Greek Cypriot administration's drilling activity is nothing but sabotage of the negotiation process between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots," he added.

Erdogan again emphasised Turkish military prowess on Wednesday: "Our assault boats and frigates are already in the region," Anatolian quoted him as saying.


Turkish PM lashes out at Cyprus, Israel over oil

Turkey's prime minister has lashed out at Cyprus and Israel for what he described as their "madness for an oil search" in the Mediterranean, the state media reported Wednesday.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Tuesday that a Turkish research ship will be "speedily" sent to the area after Cyprus began a similar search near sizable gas finds inside Israeli waters earlier this week, the state-run Anatolia news agency said.

He also said the country has sent warships to the area, as it tries to force Cyprus to halt its exploration.


Yeah this ain't good.
edit on 21-9-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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"MADNESS!" cries the country sending in armed warships to stop unarmed commercial vessels.
2nd



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Konstantinos
"MADNESS!" cries the country sending in armed warships to stop unarmed commercial vessels.
2nd

Madness? This is not madness, THIS IS CYPRUS!



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
reply to post by Konstantinos
 




At the same time the EU would back Greece and Cyprus which could bring in Germany, France & UK as well.

Which WOULD bring in the UK... since the UK has military bases on Cyprus. 3 of them.

No way the US sides with Turkey.


The UK has 3 soveriegn bases, which is a step above just a "base".

The UK actually owns and controls 3% (254km2) of the island as it's own sovereign territory. 7,000 UK troops and their families live on the island in these area's. The UK has actually offered up most of the land back as a condition of a lasting peace agreement, but the Turks have been quite intransigent over the past decades and no deal looks like it is on the horizon.

As for this drilling, Turkey is barking up the wrong tree and will end up playing with the big boys if they puch the issue. It's one thing to try and have a go at Israel, but quite another to have a pop at an EU member. It isn't common knowledge, but TEU Article 42 and TFEU Article 222 of EU treaties covers mutual defence in the face of an armed aggressor.

With both of those facts at hand, one can see that any Turkish aggression on Cyprus will only lead to their demise. Turkey might have the 2nd largest Army in NATO, but their Navy and Air Force pale in comparison to the French or UK, or even Germany for that matter. Attacking an EU member (or two if anything should happen to our territory) would simply be madness on their behalf.

But Erdogan is, at heart, an Islamic fundamentalist.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 12:52 AM
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stumason's ideas have certain flaws.Turkey is no pushover and war with Turkey would weaken NATO to extreme levels and stretch it ,also Turkey is a major component of NATO. Cyprus,Greece are essentially Basketcases.Israel wants a war so that it can divert attention of public from the economy and inflation.

Then Turkey is also being stupid by trying destabilization of Syria ,which has a Russian naval base.Russia can glass the UK and Turkey in nuclear fire in less than 3 minutes not even enough warning time and USA will do jack squat about else it also will be vaporized.



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by Konstantinos

Originally posted by 23432

What is good for the gander is also good for the goose .

That is what Turks are saying and those who oppose this perspective will make you believe that the aforementioned Turks are just brainless dolts .

Don't fall for it , nothing could be further from the truth .



Ummmm, what???

I made the point that by international law, that the Turkish invasion of Cyprus is both unlawful and illegal, what comparison are you drawing here with Cypriot acts that are similarly condemned by international law?

The point to the drilling is that it is internationally lawful, and legal as the location is within ROC EEZ waters.
Just because Turkey doesn't recognize the validity of the Cypriot Republic (while the rest of the world does) does not mean they have the right to send in warships to "escort" their own exploration vessels.
That's a blatantly hostile action.
edit on 20-9-2011 by Konstantinos because: (no reason given)




Greek Cypriots don't want to live with their Turkish Cypriot counterpart .

In fact they wish that there never was any presence of the Turk on the island . This is the premise of their framework in which ideas created and policies made .

Again I repeat ; all islanders have equal access to all the resources of the island .

Each side don't recognise each other and as long as that is what it is ; the legality or lawfulness of the actions of one side doesn't automatically bind the otherside .

Which in turn deepends the divide between the two peoples of the island .

In the short term , this deepening of division might seem a good type of development for GC's but in the long term it is a stain on humanity .

As long as GC's continue to regard TC's as second class islanders , the situation is not going to change for the better .


CG's were told that TC's have a Claim of Right on all the seas around the island . They have disregarded this Claim of Right and as a counter measure , TC's have signed a Continental Shelf Agreement with Turks .

Now you have a situation where TC's will issue drilling permits for Norwegian Oil companies .



If CG's can have their way , TC's would get NO share of ANY of the Resources within the vicinity .

Prefably , the Turk would go back to Asia Minor .


This is the mind set of most of CG's I know .

As long as that mind set remains the same , the Turks will show their intent .

For decades the CG's done everything in their power stop TC's getting any type of normality in their lives . Soon , TC's will either get a recognition or they are joining with Turkey proper .




Tell me , who is losing here again ?

Israelis will sell you out as soon as it is profitable to do so .


Russians won't say a thing about Norwegian drilling ships , exploiting in CG's EEZ areas with Turkish Navy support .

CG's always failed to realize that the game they play can also be played by the other side .

It is a futile path for CG's to think that they represent the whole of the island while in actuality , they only represent the one half .



Those war ships will ALWAYS sail in the international waters and go nowhere near to the island of Cyprus .



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by 23432

Greek Cypriots don't want to live with their Turkish Cypriot counterpart .

In fact they wish that there never was any presence of the Turk on the island . This is the premise of their framework in which ideas created and policies made .



What policies? Where are your sources? This sounds more like your opinion/Turkish propaganda.
Did you know there are still Turkish Cypriots living quite happily in ROC? 18% of the population to be exact (2010 Census) and growing!


Originally posted by 23432
Again I repeat ; all islanders have equal access to all the resources of the island .

Each side don't recognise each other and as long as that is what it is ; the legality or lawfulness of the actions of one side doesn't automatically bind the otherside .

Which in turn deepends the divide between the two peoples of the island .

This is just one of the points we disagree on.
I'm sourcing international law, you're sourcing Turkish law.


Originally posted by 23432

As long as GC's continue to regard TC's as second class islanders , the situation is not going to change for the better .

Again, this is your opinion and not a fact, please state it as such


Originally posted by 23432

CG's were told that TC's have a Claim of Right on all the seas around the island . They have disregarded this Claim of Right and as a counter measure , TC's have signed a Continental Shelf Agreement with Turks .

Told by who? Turkey? Since when does Turkey dictate the rights of Cyprus?
Of course they're going to disregard the dictation of a country that has invaded and illegaly occupies half their country.
I'll give you an example:
If Russia for example invades and occupies Northern Turkey, renames it to "Russian Republic of Anatolia" and declares that they have rights to the waters of the black sea, how co-operative would Ankara be?



Originally posted by 23432
If CG's can have their way , TC's would get NO share of ANY of the Resources within the vicinity .

Prefably , the Turk would go back to Asia Minor .


This is the mind set of most of CG's I know .

You obviously only know a small group of bitter GCs and they do not represent all GCs. I'm sure there are TCs who would want all GC's to go back to Greece, that doesn't mean that every single TC feels that way.


Originally posted by 23432

Tell me , who is losing here again ?

Israelis will sell you out as soon as it is profitable to do so .


Russians won't say a thing about Norwegian drilling ships , exploiting in CG's EEZ areas with Turkish Navy support .

CG's always failed to realize that the game they play can also be played by the other side .

It is a futile path for CG's to think that they represent the whole of the island while in actuality , they only represent the one half .

Keep telling yourself that Turkey has rights to everything everywhere.
Keep in mind, Cyprus never declared exclusive rights to drill, it was the Turks who demanded they stop. This would imply that Turkey owns these waters which is mistaken.

Make no mistake, if Turkey fires a shot at any Cypriot vessels they'll have the combined military of the EU to deal with, not just Cyprus, Greece and Israel. Based on that the US, Russia and China will more than likely sit back and stay neutral.


















edit on 22-9-2011 by Konstantinos because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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Konstantinos


I am predicting that the islanders will their own way and I see under no circumstances for Turks to send their ships to Cyprus .

There will be 2 states on that island soon and it is up to both side to get on with each other or not .

Judging by what you are saying , the Turks already have access to most of the island and giving the birth rate of GC women , well , I give you lot about 100 years before whole of the island , south or north , gets populated by CTs .

I take it that you are willing to live a CT as a neighbour . That is nice hear actually . Let's hope the rest of GC's follow common sense and give the peace a chance on the island .



posted on Sep, 22 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by 23432
Konstantinos


I am predicting that the islanders will their own way and I see under no circumstances for Turks to send their ships to Cyprus .

Ah, now we agree on something!
I too think there is no reason for Turkish warships there. Sending in armed vessels will only escalate things.


Originally posted by 23432
There will be 2 states on that island soon and it is up to both side to get on with each other or not .

Well I really don't see this happening because it will then give the precedent that illegal invasions can lead to new state-hoods allied with the invaders. Then all hell could break loose around the world.


Originally posted by 23432
Judging by what you are saying , the Turks already have access to most of the island and giving the birth rate of GC women , well , I give you lot about 100 years before whole of the island , south or north , gets populated by CTs .

Well, neither one of us will be around to see if your prediction comes true!



Originally posted by 23432
I take it that you are willing to live a CT as a neighbour . That is nice hear actually . Let's hope the rest of GC's follow common sense and give the peace a chance on the island .

I have no personal problem with any general race in particular, what I have a problem with is extremists and hostility regardless of race.

edit on 22-9-2011 by Konstantinos because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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Another update :

Turkey to deploy warships over gas dispute with Cyprus

Fighter jets to be stationed in Turkish-controlled northern Cyprus.

Turkey is set to begin natural gas exploration in the coming days in the Eastern Mediterranean, north of Cyprus. According to reports in the Turkish media, the exploration will be accompanied by a fleet of Turkish war ships and submarines.

Turkey’s war planes will also be stationed in the northern part of the island, which is under Turkish control. It is still unclear whether the exploration will take place in the areas where Israel and Cyprus divided exploration rights in an agreement signed last year.

Ya this ain't good.




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