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EPA declares hay a pollutant [see UPDATE]

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posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by jibeho
 


And they do all this for a VERY GOOD reason! Dust particles from industrial operation, including farming, can cause asthma and other lung disease. It's costing people a huge amount of money every year, and hell, even kills people. It makes sense to try cut down on dust pollution, just like it makes sense to cut down on anything else that's harmful to people.

And don't pretend natural dust (aka earth blowing in the wind) on natural ground is the issue here. That dust would be there either way. They're talking about dust created from human interaction. NOT friggin' hay! Those farmers need to find innovative ways to solve the dust issue, hell, maybe it'll even create jobs in the process. If I have to vote between health and more profit, I'll take health every single time without hesitation.




posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by narwahl
 


He only had 3200 head at the time of the inspection because he probably cannot afford to house the 12,000 max. that his facility is rated to handle. The small timers no longer run at the max. of anything.

Cattle is still this nations #1 commodity as of the 2010 census.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


The EPA will mandate that farmers hose down their roads and driveways to minimize the dust. Can't imagine what they'll do when the farmers begin to disk their fields. That will of course generate runoff and deplete the wells and run up water and sewer bills. NO biggie.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by MrXYZ
 


The EPA will mandate that farmers hose down their roads and driveways to minimize the dust. Can't imagine what they'll do when the farmers begin to disk their fields. That will of course generate runoff and deplete the wells and run up water and sewer bills. NO biggie.


Look, I do feel for the farmers, it'll require some innovative solutions to solve some of the issues...and just like most other people they have problems too. The thing is, health and the protection of the US landscape should always come before profits...even if it requires innovative solutions for those issues.

The fact remains, the title of the orinal article is beyond disingenuous. And it was started by a biased interest group. Even if they had a case, by using tactics like that, they are essentially losing all credibility.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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EPA and other agencies will drive small, medium farmers out of business. All our food is in the process of being outsourced, imported from China and India. War is being declared on food producers in the US. And yet these other countries are given a free pass on their environmental impact. Same goes with many other companies - coal producers being one of them.

Time will prove me right.
edit on 19-9-2011 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by neo96


i will say this government stupidity is hazardous us to our health
edit on 18-9-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

I love grammar fails when people are calling others stupid. Pot meet kettle.


"I love grammar fails" is grammatically incorrect. And you forgot a comma behind pot.



Breedlove noted that under the Clean Water Act, Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations can be subjected to four counts of violations: failure to maintain adequate records, failure to maintain adequate storage capacity, failure to maintain nutrient management plan requirements, and failure to operate production within controlled areas to prevent pollution.


I read from this "Regulated completely out of proportion to the public good". And don't forget "You're a business and are therefore evil and must be destroyed."

/TOA



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by MegaMind
EPA and other agencies will drive small, medium farmers out of business. All our food is in the process of being outsourced, imported from China and India. War is being declared on food producers in the US. And yet these other countries are given a free pass on their environmental impact. Same goes with many other companies - coal producers being one of them.

Time will prove me right.
edit on 19-9-2011 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)


Probably the plan is to drive small farmers out and then nationalize the big ones. Socialism ot the max. In the case of coal, I think they mean to eliminate it and replace with windmills and solar.

EPA drove the smokestack industries out long ago. Only the top ones remained, if they capped their stacks.
edit on 19-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by MrXYZ
 


The EPA will mandate that farmers hose down their roads and driveways to minimize the dust. Can't imagine what they'll do when the farmers begin to disk their fields. That will of course generate runoff and deplete the wells and run up water and sewer bills. NO biggie.


Look, I do feel for the farmers, it'll require some innovative solutions to solve some of the issues...and just like most other people they have problems too. The thing is, health and the protection of the US landscape should always come before profits...even if it requires innovative solutions for those issues.


Did you like that $3 hamburger? I hope so, because when the EPA gets done and pulls off the rubber gloves, that burger is gonna be $4.50.

/TOA



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by MegaMind
EPA and other agencies will drive small, medium farmers out of business. All our food is in the process of being outsourced, imported from China and India. War is being declared on food producers in the US. And yet these other countries are given a free pass on their environmental impact. Same goes with many other companies - coal producers being one of them.

Time will prove me right.
edit on 19-9-2011 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)


Probably the plan is to drive small farmers out and then nationalize the big ones. Socialism ot the max. In the case of coal, I think they mean to eliminate it and replace with windmills and solar.


Coal plants are being produced at a record pace in China. What good is it if we go to solar or wind if the world's largest population burns tons and tons of dirty coal?

This has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with destroying the US and bringing us to our knees, begging for whatever scraps the elitist throw from the table.
edit on 19-9-2011 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-9-2011 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by MegaMind

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by MegaMind
EPA and other agencies will drive small, medium farmers out of business. All our food is in the process of being outsourced, imported from China and India. War is being declared on food producers in the US. And yet these other countries are given a free pass on their environmental impact. Same goes with many other companies - coal producers being one of them.

Time will prove me right.
edit on 19-9-2011 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)


Probably the plan is to drive small farmers out and then nationalize the big ones. Socialism ot the max. In the case of coal, I think they mean to eliminate it and replace with windmills and solar.


Coal plants are being produced at a record pace in China. What good is it if we go to solar or wind if the world's largest population burns tons and tons of dirty coal?


OH I totally agree. I think it is an idiotic plan and I oppose everything this admin does. All they have done is to ruin industry and lose jobs in the private sector while giving our compettitors the advantage.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 10:10 PM
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Well it's about time they declared it a pollutant! It causes hay fever and innocent people have been getting poked by those hidden needles on a daily basis!


Seriously, I can think of a lot more man made dangerous pollutants than natural hay.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by jibeho
 


farmers arent suppose to disk anymore per epa rules and regulations they say when they do that co2 is released into the atmosphere.

which means farmers have to spend thousands and tens of thousands on new equipment called no till to meet current epa regs.

freaking ridiculous.
edit on 19-9-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:11 AM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by jibeho
 


farmers arent suppose to disk anymore per epa rules and regulations they say when they do that co2 is released into the atmosphere.

which means farmers have to spend thousands and tens of thousands on new equipment called no till to meet current epa regs.

freaking ridiculous.
edit on 19-9-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)
Good point.
May I add that the creation of no till farming was made possible by the advent of new herbicides that kill everything vegetable except for corn. I would suspect that Monsanto and companies of that ilk had something to do with it.

Without the corn specific herbicides, no till farming would not work. In the 'old days' before no till, a farmer planted his corn after he plowed and disked the soil. Then he had to keep the weeds down between the rows using a cultivator, until the corn was high enough that it blocked the sun from the weeds.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 07:27 AM
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I just love that they claim silage can 'leach pollutants'.

Does anyone know what silage is???

It is green vegetable matter (usually corn or grass) that is cut before the plant has gone to seed, chopped and stored in a confined place. The confinement is usually a silo or a bag. The silage ferments during its time of confinement.

What do you thing happens in nature to vegetable matter that dies in the fall. Apples, berries and other fruiting bodies fall from trees and other plants, then are covered by leaves to ferment and give off the same leachates... without confinement!



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 





In the case of coal, I think they mean to eliminate it and replace with windmills and solar.


...which is a good thing given how much coal mines destroy the environment. As for China, they are currently building entire multi-million-inhabitant cities which are almost 100% sustainable through new green technologies. They don't have a real environmental protection agency though, wich means that although they are pretty innovative when it comes to green technologies, they still have the other extreme of horrible pollution.



People completely ignore the FACT that those pollution problems today, will incurr MASSIVE costs in the future. Just look at the increase in people with asthma for example, and how much treatment costs. The increase in patients with asthma is directly correlated with pollution. The same goes for a whole array of other health issues that will cost us a ton in the future. Processed food for example (such as chips) contains stuff that increases the risk of cancer. And it's organizations like the EPA who ensure future generations don't have to suffer as much because of actions of the current generation. If that leads to a decrease in profits for some farmers, so be it. As with anything in life, you either adapt or die. Farmers aren't the only ones who have to deal with change. People working in finance go through the same, and so do most other professionals.

I used to get 1-2% of every commercial real estate I sold (nice if it's a £500m+ portfolio deal), it's now down to 0.5%, and some of the competition goes as low as 0.3%. Am I pissed off about that, sure. But instead of creating outright lies like that ridiculous R-CALF organization, I adapt...which is why I'm still doing great.

I feel for the farmers, I really do. But increasing their profits shouldn't come at the expense of our health (or that of future generations) or the beauty of the environment.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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You want to hear a secret?


Why did the Federal Government decide to bring in powdered milk from other countries? They take milk in foreign countries, boil off the water...and ship it to America to be re-made into milk or used in dairy products.

Why did they do that? It about ended Dairy Farming in America.....

BECAUSE THE GRASS/HAY WAS POLLUTED ALLLLL ACROSS AMERICA. The cows were eating the grass/hay...and bioaccumulating radiation/toxins which went into the milk. America's kids drank.


That's why America no longer has a Dairy Industry. America was too polluted. They just never came out and told you why Dairy Farming had to end in America. Nuclear testing, nuclear accidents, Nuclear missile fire in Jersey, 3 mile island...DDT...Volatile Organic Compounds, Arsenic...pollution from manufacturing/industry.

America's Hay still is polluted. If you get it tested in a Lab they'd determine it is a Hazardous Waste if you accumulated enough of it in 1 spot, say a Hay Bale.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by Pervius
 


Who cares...the pollution gives LA beautiful sunrises and sunsets


Let's abolish all environmental regulations, hand our kids lead paint toys, dump our garbage in forests, detonate entire mountains to get to the coal, drill wherever the oil companies want to drill (clue: everywhere), and while we're at it, why don't we "remove" 30% of US animals/plants...who needs them anyway? Right?

And as a giant plus, we also worsen our health and that of our children.

Makes perfect sense!! Less regulation, less regulation!! Everyone chant with me, LESS REGULATION


Sometimes I wonder if people are just too plain dumb to realize that many regulations are in the best interest of the people. But I guess it's not surprising given that all political parties are now subsidiaries of corporate America, and their stated goal is obviously PROFIT above all else (and that includes peoples' lives). I'm just a bit surprised that so many seem to buy into the "smaller government, it's all for the people" bull# when in reality they're being played by big business.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Oh, I know what silage is.
Do you know what overfertilization is?
That's what it leaks. Fertilizer
Ever heard of algae bloom?
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by narwahl
reply to post by butcherguy
 


Oh, I know what silage is.
Do you know what overfertilization is?
That's what it leaks. Fertilizer
Ever heard of algae bloom?
en.wikipedia.org...


We have lakes in Switzerland where most fish have died because of fertilizers laking into those lakes. Laws changed, the people understood WHY they needed this regulation...and it's beyond me why in the US some people are too dumb to get it.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


Well any misplaced natural item can be a pollutant. If a load of hay is placed into your drinking water it would become a pollutant. I suppose the context where they hay occurs is everything. Perhaps this was a misunderstanding on the part of the OP or judging by the context of other posts on the front page another attempt at conspiracy mileage.

Rgds

Tiger




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