People Who Pronounce and Spell the Name of Jesus In Weird Old Testament Variants are Going to Hell

reply to post by the4thhorseman

EDIT: Found it;

Job 19:25-27
25 I know that my redeemer[a] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[c] in[d] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

Job understands there is a resurrection and you can call it judgement and you can find it as being one of two things, vindication and redemption, or wrath and punishment. He knows it can go either way, but has every assurance that if he does well he will be vindicated, while he feels assured that if he does ill, he will be punished, but is not assured that he will be found acceptable if he rests on his past deeds only and wishes those could be remembered forever and if he grows weak and has failings, those will be forgotten.

reply to post by jmdewey60
But you ARE claiming that jewish history as presented in the old testament is a lie, and I believe I saw you post something to the effect that the god of the old testament ("the lord of hosts") and so forth is evil and not to be compared to/associated with Jesus, or am I mistaken?

If I *haven't* misunderstood what you've said previously, then there seems to be a significant problem here as Jesus and the new testament lend credence to and are wholly built on the truth and promises of the old testament, its god, and its history...as well as disregarding the testimony of the hebrew gospels I've mentioned previously, with the greek Matthew we have now having been translated originally from hebrew as well according to early church testimony.

Please clarify this for me since you earlier seemed to be quite clearly attempting to set the two at odds with each other.

reply to post by Praetorius


I can imagine this guy going to Muslims to testify of Jesus to them and saying to them "You call him Isa, you are wrong because his name is Jesus". Isa is the Arabic way to say Jesus.

But this guy sound like he a little Muslim. His theology is based on a lot of faith systems and he rejects Orthodox Christianity.

The Arabic long form of the name of Jesus is Isa Al Masi which in Hebrew is Yehushua Ha Mashiach.

theabrahamconnection.org...

Jesus Christ is Lord.

Originally posted by the4thhorseman
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Just remember not matter what you believe God is a just and judges righteously.

I believe that there is God, and then there is someone else who claims to be God. This person is no dummy so is able to make a very convincing argument for his being God. He also has very seductive forms of enticements. This person was very good in his craft way back at the beginning of human existence on this planet, and now is even better, with all his experience with so many people over such a long period of time.
subtlety is his central personal characteristic and attribute, so he knows how to chum the waters and introduce the bait and set the hook and reel in the prize, which is the unwary souls. Give warning, I think is what we should do, to not take the first bite which leads in the wrong direction, to accept doubt, and then hatred for those you now perceive as liars who you once trusted. Hate is of the devil and now teaches you to accept the god of hate, thinking it is the true God.

reply to post by the4thhorseman
A tentative conclusion from the first link you gave:

The Sacred Name or True Name
If someone firmly believes that the manufactured rendering of YAHshua is a scriptural name, then I would recommend that they check it out for themselves in the Hebrew texts. Creating one's own language concepts while ignoring the rules that govern transliteration and vocalization, and then applying them to other languages to aid in the formation of a Hebrew sounding name does not demonstrate sound or acceptable scholarship. It appears according to the above explanation that "YAHshua" is a manufactured name that has been assembled using faulty scholarship in an effort to support a theological agenda.

What would that agenda be, but to subvert Christians?

The examples given by the author of things he's heard; paraphrased by me: "Saying Jesus is Lord" is the same as worshipping Zeus and Baal. The agenda is to suppress the natural and normal Christian expression, and embarrass Christians into saying Hebrew words meaning "Yahweh the Saviour is anointed". There's nothing Christian about that at all. So Christians who fall for it are converting to Judaism without even knowing it.

And Jewish agents can operate freely undetected, saying words that don't violate Judaism, and yet seem to be Christians.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Jesus was Jewish. He was circumcised according to the tradition of Moses. Egyptians did not circumcise according the the tradition of Moses

Yes they did.
The priests in Egypt were circumcised and Moses' intention was a nation of priests.

reply to post by Praetorius

But you ARE claiming that jewish history as presented in the old testament is a lie,

I did not say that.
I was saying the burden of evidence is on you, and then gave some reasons why and you decided to take what I said a certain way and then to argue my motives or something, instead of owning up to you needing to be able to support your own view and not just throw rocks at mine.

reply to post by pthena

reply to post by jmdewey60


Who is Jobs redeemer? If we all want to get completely technical with this I would say what is the Jewish word for "Word".

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

reply to post by jmdewey60
My apologies. What you actually said was this:

No because you are cherry picking from biased "Hebrew scholars" who are going to say things to support their reason for existence. Unbiased historians say there is no evidence that supports the Old Testament mythical version of history.

...where you directly said the Old Testament is a mythical version of history. And seeing as how the old testament is exactly everything I just previously said it was in relation to the new testament - exactly what the heck are you basing your belief in the new testament and Jesus on?

THIS is exactly what I'm asking for you to clarify - if you won't do so, then you don't even need to bother with responding.

And if you'll recall, this entire thread was started by you claiming that those using the original hebrew names of Jesus and god are going to hell (see your thread title, right up there? Yeah, that's what I'm getting at), although these merely happen to be in the original language of the jews (and the book of Matthew), and come directly from the scriptures that Jesus quoted and claimed to have fulfilled, and that the entire new testament is founded on.

So, hopefully you'll see how what I'm saying fits together as this is all pretty obviously part and parcel to me, and if the burden of proof is on my to justify old testament history - what the heck are you doing trying to discuss christianity as though it's some valid thing?

Crikey, man, put the pieces together already and explain how on earth you think you're making any sense here.

EDIT -
And now I'm even more confused, since you just started a thread the other day saying you're a seventh-day adventist, but you're contradicting SDA theology and beliefs as they acknowledge the validity of the old testament, Christ as the fulfillment of its prophecies, and share my views on sin and eternal life (they're annihilationists as well). Of all the christian churches, I myself am most closely aligned with the Adventists - but with the various things you've said in this thread, you don't appear to be much in line with them or most of the other denominations...you've got me quite confused here with all your jumping about.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Jesus was Jewish. He was circumcised according to the tradition of Moses. Egyptians did not circumcise according the the tradition of Moses

Yes they did.
The priests in Egypt were circumcised and Moses' intention was a nation of priests.

Egyptians circumcised males 13 and above. And it seems this nation of priests was not in Egypt. Do you know what "according to the law of Moses" means?

Aren't you introducing the esoteric teachings you told us you disliked. Wait, you said I can't take Revelation literally because it was all imagery, that is what esoteric is.

reply to post by pthena
Thanks for your analysis of that page. I have to agree there is an agenda of subversion being pushed along and there is a constant ratcheting up and a drawing tight the noose.
I hope people are aware that there is a trap set at their feet and the ultimate goal is your soul in Hell. (of course after making good use of your bodies here on earth, first, on the physical plane to consolidate a satanic kingdom to match that of hell, with the motto: as above so below, or, as below, make it also above)

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by pthena

 

Thanks for you analysis of that page. I have to agree there is an agenda of subversion being pushed along and there is a constant ratcheting up and a drawing tight the noose.
I hope people are aware that there is a trap set at their feet and the ultimate goal is your soul in Hell. (of course after making good use of your bodies here on earth, first, on the physical plane to consolidate a satanic kingdom to match that of hell, with the motto: as above so below, or, as below, make it also above)

So what you are saying is Jesus Christ is not Lord?

I have to be very clear here because of your constant flip-flopping on certain points, your introductions of other theologies and your constant threatening the rest of us with hell just makes me confused about your theology. You say we believe in a Jesus that is murderous and genocidal and we are wrong, then you tell us we are going to hell. Seems to be a contradiction on your part.

reply to post by WarminIndy

So what you are saying is Jesus Christ is not Lord?

I don't know where you get that.
I said earlier on this thread that I think people should read their Bible and to read, out loud, the part that says, "Jesus is Lord". I imagined people would understand that to indicate that I accept Jesus as Lord. This is what this thread is about, saying Jesus is Lord. Jesus is Lord. How do you get from that, that I do not believe Jesus is Lord?

reply to post by WarminIndy

I have to be very clear here because of your constant flip-flopping on certain points, your introductions of other theologies and your constant threatening the rest of us with hell just makes me confused about your theology. You say we believe in a Jesus that is murderous and genocidal and we are wrong, then you tell us we are going to hell. Seems to be a contradiction on your part.

Hell, I think, is somewhere near the center of the earth where souls go when people die. My guess is that everyone goes there but some just leave, but the only way they can leave is if God takes them.
So if I say, "go to hell", practically speaking, you just don't get taken out.
I don't go for the idea that Jesus goes after you to inflict bodily injury on you, which you seem to be saying you believe in.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I get that, but what i don't understand is the various factions of Chritianity all have fundamentally different views on that belief, so what makes a Prodestant different from a Cathlic is quite a big difference. Who is right?

reply to post by the4thhorseman

Who is Jobs redeemer? If we all want to get completely technical with this I would say what is the Jewish word for "Word".

I was not being technical unless being "technical" is reading the verses.
If you want to get technical, Job is saying that if there was no one left in the universe but one person, then this one is my redeemer.
That would hearken to your current quotation, the word.

reply to post by Praetorius

..where you directly said the Old Testament is a mythical version of history

Are you now going to say that the universe and everything in it was made in six days and that the earth is six thousand years old?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

So what you are saying is Jesus Christ is not Lord?

I don't know where you get that.
I said earlier on this thread that I think people should read their Bible and to read, out loud, the part that says, "Jesus is Lord". I imagined people would understand that to indicate that I accept Jesus as Lord. This is what this thread is about, saying Jesus is Lord. Jesus is Lord. How do you get from that, that I do not believe Jesus is Lord?

You don't believe in the same Jesus as the Bible says He is. The Jesus you have described to us is foreign to me and therefore because you are preaching a Gospel other than the one I have received, I have no obligation to hear you. You are preaching something strange that you have come up by mixing theologies. Too many people on here has posted Bible verses upon Bible verses that declares who Jesus is. All of which you reject because it does not fit in with your world-view, a world-view that will lead people astray.

There are many faith systems that are honest in declaring what they define their theology is. You have posted your opinion, the very first being "People who pronounce the Name of Jesus in Weird Old Testament Variants are Going to Hell"....then you say the Jesus we define and believe in is good and does not send people to hell. You have told us we are going to hell for believing in Yehushua, even though it is merely His name in Hebrew.

You told us the Jesus we believe in is evil, the devil, murderous, genocidal...and yet condemn us to hell. That is a contradiction.

The Jesus Christ the rest of us believe in is different than yours. So therefore, you are preaching a different Gospel.

reply to post by Praetorius

And if you'll recall, this entire thread was started by you claiming that those using the original hebrew names of Jesus and god are going to hell (see your thread title, right up there? Yeah, that's what I'm getting at), although these merely happen to be in the original language of the jews (and the book of Matthew), and come directly from the scriptures that Jesus quoted and claimed to have fulfilled, and that the entire new testament is founded on.

This is your claim and that is what it is, and not a fact, as you wish it was. All you have to back up your claim is speculation. Jesus is in the New Testament and I point out that it was likely enough to be the name of a person of Jewish descent living in Hellenized Alexandria where he spoke Greek.