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People Who Pronounce and Spell the Name of Jesus In Weird Old Testament Variants are Going to Hell

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posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 

Different groups of early Christians maintained their own oral traditions of [Jesus wisdom,] as writing was a very specialized skill in those times, and not every fellowship enjoyed the services of a Scribe. So, many traditions were in oral form.When written accounts of the teachings began to circulate, the independent groups would supplement them with their own traditions, each believing their own versions to be "the true Gospel."
My impression from reading the Gospels is that there was an overabundance of scribes, who had too much time on their hands so they went around judging people.




posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by CosmicWaterGate

Originally posted by jmdewey60
My Bible says "Jesus", does yours ?
Do you watch movies or hear stories where demons are cast out in the name of Jesus?
Do you ever wonder if people who do not say or write, Jesus, but some Hebrew or Aramaic name instead, are demon possessed?
... Can't go much more into Hell than this Prison Planet
...

Mr X-ULTRA-ENOCHkey... Jesus(HE-IS-US)... And the Sheeple go...
I think you get my point, where people are so desperate that they turn to magical incantations to go to the next world.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by Frira
 


So, if you are serious about the damnation due to using using any other name-- or intentionally mispronouncing the Name given, I submit that the cause of the intent is at issue. If the intent is to avoid using the power of the Name, then to what end?
* Is it to mislead others so as to deny others the power?
* Is it to guard against invoking the power out of thoughtless familiarity?
* Is it to claim for oneself something new and mystical for reasons unrelated to the love of God?

Intent matters.
Thanks for considering the question.
I agree that this whole question has a lot of facets and implications. It is a little difficult to cover all them at once but I think you made an excellent post, pointing out the complexity of what might superficially seem very simple.
I have been very alarmed of late by the actions by the followers of these practices and have great fear for them and believe they have, through their dabbling in the occult knowledge, opened themselves to demon possession.
edit on 19-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Praetorius

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Praetorius
 
Let me assure you I am not jesting.
Witchcraft is based on Hebrew letters, so this is just a sneaky way to get people demon possessed.


In that case, this post worries me somewhat.

First thing, "witchcraft" as far as I'm aware is not bound to any certain language or alphabet. There's 'witchcraft' involving enochian, latin, and a whole host of other languages.

Secondly, this seems to fly in the face of the fact that hebrew is the language spoken by Christ and others of his time and preceding him as well, in addition to being the language the torah was given to us by the father in.

By extension, this would also seem to implicate hebrew-speaking jewish believers in Christ...as we're taught quite clearly in the bible, it is our heart and intents that are read, and I personally don't believe one can be duped through linguistics into turning honest and intended worship of the father into something completely contrary to its clear goal.

Odd views you've got here, friend. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire thread as yet, but would you have a link to some information clarifying where exactly you're getting all this so I can get some background on your opinions here?
I used the word, witchcraft, in a general way to cover all esoteric and occult practices. My understanding is that Taro is based on the Hebrew alphabet. My thinking on Hebrew is that it is essentially Babylonian and so you have things like Revelation saying, Mystery Babylon.
Jesus and the people in his region and time did not conversationally speak Hebrew. It was a Babylonian science.
Judea fell under Greek control in the time of Alexander and the culture was Hellenistic, which the population readily and happily adopted, except for the priest class who joined with common criminals to wage guerrilla warfare against the Greeks, being able to temporarily gain a hold on the temple. Then they (this one sect of priests) were driven off to go to Egypt to join with the Romans. So you have a constant control, other than so many days, where the country was completely dominated by the emperial powers.
Why did Jesus feel more kinship with the Romans (and they with him) than he did the leaders of his own country and why did they (the Jews) consider Jesus a foreigner himself? Being named Jesus would explain that.
edit on 19-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by Cantmakedisup
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! This is GREAT!!! Interesting set-up. HILARIOUS punch line... wait. This isn't a joke???
Oh. You're for real??? Great, who let the creationist out???
Sorry but demons are real.
Jesus said so.
It is sad but true that people are inviting demons in and sometimes because people tell them to as if it would make them wiser.
Just like what happened to Eve in the Garden.
The serpent said, Eat this fruit and you will be as wise as the gods and no, you will not die.
Wrong, you will not, and you will die.
The clear word tells us by saying the name, Jesus, we will be saved but we are constantly being lied to by people who say it is another name, and to say that name.
Go ahead but you will accept the first Adams fall and never gain the second Adam's resurrection because you willfully disobeyed the plain word of God.
edit on 19-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Headband7
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


That's right on man I'm a Jew trying to blame Christ. You miss my earlier post where I said i used to be Christian Reformed? Now i don't know if I fall into any religious category. these different categories and religions are used to breed hate between cultures bred way back at the time Nero and even before. I think Christianity is a fabrication if anything I believe in God and that Jesus walked the easrth and taught about God, but Jesus was not god or 3 in 1 as Christians like to put it.


Well youre right in a way. Religion period is an evil bastion. Christianity was never meant to be a religion, it was meant to be Jesus Christ's guidelines on how to live so that we can be with him when this is all over. You see, man had been living according to God's law as set down by man, not God. So God came down in person to show us how to live right according to HIS will, not ours.

Actually Jesus is God, and exactly that. John the Baptist gave testament to this and he was a jew.

Book of John: "in the beginning there was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God", John was telling of his revelation about Jesus Christ being the Messiah. He later explains this by saying that Jesus "was the Living Word made flesh, and that he made the world but was not of it, he walked amoung his people and they knew him not".

In essence John the Baptist was claiming that Jesus was God in the flesh and the moment he said this, Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of immanuel. So what we have is:

In the beginning there was Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ was with God, and Jesus Christ was God. So Yahweh was the Lord's pre-human form. It was Jesus that created us, or rather the spirit dwelling inside him named Yahweh.

Ofcourse many people will refute this claim. Those that accept it believe that John the Baptist, being a righteous man and a servant of God was testifying to the truth. Hence why we pray in Jesus' name (which is Yahweh) and why we sing praises to the Lord, Jesus Christ. No mere "man" could save mankind, you can't redeem sinners with sin, that is why God had to come in the flesh, because he was the only one that could save us.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

Well in your cult, i'm sure that may be the case, i wonder if youre demon posessed believing the lies you do. "Jesus" is the english version adopted from the greek version "lesus". Jesus was not an englishman, and despite what many white people think Jesus does not have female like long hair and pretty blue eyes and he is not white. The true rendition of Christ's name is the hebrew Yeshua or Yehoshua.

In any case i'm sure the Lord knows who youre refering to whatever name you use when you pray to Him. Despite what you might think God is not a moron.
I am an individual and do not belong to a cult nor do I lead a cult. I stay home and don't go to meetings so whatever I think is what comes from my own thoughts.
So, you think I am demon possessed.
Thanks for the offer of red herring but no thanks.
And thanks for the false accusations.
How do you know the "true rendition" is something other than, Jesus, unless you reject the Bible?
When I read the Bible, I see the word, Jesus, and I believe it. Sorry you have rejected Jesus for a false idol.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by Headband7
reply to post by jmdewey60
 
Lost cause? isn't your faith supposed to be based on spreading God's word? I grew up CRC i get your point about Jesus name,and I'm saying you're wrong. but the fact that you just me off as not worth the time is a little suspect don't you think, you don't even have anything to say, not even going to try. How can it only be Jesus and Jesus alone the Bible itself refers to him by 3 names, maybe I don't get your point- what is your point?
You are lost.
The commision from Jesus is to out into the world and preach the good news of the Gospel.
You had it and then rejected it so there is no salvation for you.
We are not told to go out to the apostate Christians.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by daikaiju
 

You yourself,with no help from yours truly have shown you lack wisdom and are a liar, when I caught you in your lie, you ignored it and changed the subject.
As for me criticizing, that is my right on this board, your angry with me because I outed you, spin what you want and even call me names, but it is you my friend that has the cultist mentality.
And I am not the only one who thinks so as proven by other statements, my only regret is I cannot say these things in your face and not over some internet connection.
You are only projecting your own feelings onto me.
I don't feel anger but a little annoyed that you contribute nothing to the thread but just say personal insults.
Your so-called lie that you accuse me of is that Modern Hebrew was an invention made to be the official state religion for Israel.
That is just a fact and that you dispute known and accepted and verifiable fact is an indication to me that you care nothing of the truth but just enjoy telling people off.
A cultish mentality, to me would imply that I was prone to follow someone as my leader. There is no such person on this earth who I have that sort of regard for.
edit on 19-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


"For in him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) bodily."

Colossians 2:9


"that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ (Jesus), not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation."

2 Corinthians 5:19



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by daikaiju

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
"Yeshua!"
That's it then I guess im going to hell.
At least the climate there is hot.
I am guessing you have not read too many of my posts.
I am not condemning people who say, Yeshua, I am condemning people who refuse, apparently out of personal principle, to say the name, Jesus, despite it being in the Bible.
The Bible says by this name will you be saved and these people seek to prevent anyone from using the name as found in the New Testament, which is the Christian Bible.


By what right do you condemn?
Do you know anyone who my condemnation would fit?
Is it you? If you are this person I describe as having a demon, then let me know, and I will discuss what my right is.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

Well in your cult, i'm sure that may be the case, i wonder if youre demon posessed believing the lies you do. "Jesus" is the english version adopted from the greek version "lesus". Jesus was not an englishman, and despite what many white people think Jesus does not have female like long hair and pretty blue eyes and he is not white. The true rendition of Christ's name is the hebrew Yeshua or Yehoshua.

In any case i'm sure the Lord knows who youre refering to whatever name you use when you pray to Him. Despite what you might think God is not a moron.
I am an individual and do not belong to a cult nor do I lead a cult. I stay home and don't go to meetings so whatever I think is what comes from my own thoughts.
So, you think I am demon possessed.
Thanks for the offer of red herring but no thanks.
And thanks for the false accusations.
How do you know the "true rendition" is something other than, Jesus, unless you reject the Bible?
When I read the Bible, I see the word, Jesus, and I believe it. Sorry you have rejected Jesus for a false idol.


Apparently you didn't read the bible enough or remember any of it, much less ask the Holy Spirit to guide you in learning the truth of what you read. You should get your nose out of that satanic bible and read the teachings that Jesus left for us and stop being a false prophet. It was the Lords will for us to come together and fellowship with eachother, and that is in the bible, not go all maverick and solo.

Meh, whatever dude. I'm done quibbling with you. I'm content to let you go on living the delusions you live in because you refuse to hear the truth from the Lord. Not to mention you antagonize your brothers in Christ and try to divide and conquer just like Satan does which makes me wonder if you truly do believe in Jesus, because a true believer doesnt seek to split his brothers apart and cause turmoil, which is exactly what you do.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



We are not told to go out to the apostate Christians.


Sounds very cult-like, like Jehovah's Witnesses.

Bull JM, in Christ's Prodigal Son story the older brother knew his brother was in trouble and didn't try and help him. He knew enough about his brother's activities to tell dad what he had been up to, but he didn't offer him a hand up out of the pigpen back to the Father's house, back to love and fellowship with Him. He wasn't an extension of his Father's love toward his brother.


"Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

James 5:20


edit on 19-9-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jmdewey60
 



I am judging, that is true and I understand the ramifications if I judge wrongly but I feel confident in my condemnation of the people who prevent others from using the name of Jesus, based on theory and philosophy but from a source of true hatred of the Christian Lord, Jesus.


You haven't even given a single example of anyone who thought or taught this nonsense. You're throwing out random charges without providing sourced evidence to back your claims up. based on my previous dealings with you I believe it's from your hatred of Israel. And you've previously stated that YHWH is not God, but is a demon. So when pointed out that Jesus's Hebrew/given at birth name was Yahshua/Yeshua or Yeshu for short you get in a huge tissy because the meaning of Christ's name is "Yahweh saves".

You deny the Holy Godhead, the divinity of Christ, and don't grasp the concept that Jesus IS YHWH. (Link in my sig)
Well, isn't that just funny, that I would just be making up that there are such people who teach that the "real" name of Jesus is some Aramaic or Hebrew name and that the Bible is wrong.
That would be strange indeed, I agree, if I had done such a thing.
My back up is open the Bible to the New Testament and flip through the pages a minute and see if you see anywhere the name, Jesus.
Your "pointing out" is you just repeating the philosophy taught to you at your cult meetings.
The name of Jesus is, Jesus, the Bible says so, and what is your counter evidence?
There is not even the word, godhead, in the Greek. There is a word, godhead in the King James, but it is just a word they came up with to insert into the verse to support the doctrine of the Church of England.
Jesus is divine, which means, good.
Saying Jesus is the Old Testament version of a god is fine with me but linking Jesus to the genocidal murderer god, (or angel, properly) of Sinai, is a despicable act, in my opinion. Saying he is one in the same, I believe, dooms you to Hell. I believe you have accepted a demon.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by daikaiju
 

You yourself,with no help from yours truly have shown you lack wisdom and are a liar, when I caught you in your lie, you ignored it and changed the subject.
As for me criticizing, that is my right on this board, your angry with me because I outed you, spin what you want and even call me names, but it is you my friend that has the cultist mentality.
And I am not the only one who thinks so as proven by other statements, my only regret is I cannot say these things in your face and not over some internet connection.
You are only projecting your own feelings onto me.
I don't feel anger but a little annoyed that you contribute nothing to the thread but just say personal insults.
Your so-called lie that you accuse me of is that Modern Hebrew was an invention made to be the official state religion for Israel.
That is just a fact and that you dispute known and accepted and verifiable fact is an indication to me that you care nothing of the truth but just enjoy telling people off.
A cultish mentality, to me would imply that I was prone to follow someone as my leader. There is no such person on this earth who I have that sort of regard for.
edit on 19-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


You don't even remember the lie you told, typical.
Little clue, it had nothing to do with Hebrew.

Do you even go to a church?
Is the nonsense that you spew your own or was it learned from another?


edit on 19/9/2011 by daikaiju because: spelling



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



Well, isn't that just funny, that I would just be making up that there are such people who teach that the "real" name of Jesus is some Aramaic or Hebrew name and that the Bible is wrong.


And I feel so strongly about this that I forgot to remove the two times Jesus is mentioned on my signature in every forum post you read? In my sig links and under my username?

You're 100% wrong, and virtually everyone here is telling you the same thing. His name is Jesus. It's also Iseus. It's Yahshua.

God's name is YHWH. Jesus is God's manifestation in flesh. Yahshua = YAH saves. You refuse to deal with this fact. His translated name, since we do have a "J" sound in English would be "Joshua". Whatever name people use for the Son of God it's still His life, death, and resurrection that delivers us.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 

Even if the first pretends to rejoice in Jesus, usually using a name that really means 'Yahweh, giver of law, is my only master'
If you don't mind me borrowing part of your post here.
I would like to use this quote to illustrate why I think we need to obey God in the New Testament to say, "Jesus is Lord".
If you use the Hebrew name, you are actually saying Jesus is not your Lord, but you are the servant of the Lord of Hosts who commands death and utter destruction.
Saying that Hebrew name causes you to be inviting the spirit of hate into your soul.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by curious7
 

According to the Bible, pretty much everyone including believers are going to Hell anyway so who cares how it's spoken or written?
As you can see, I don't buy into any religion that threatens to punish you for eternity just for being human and making mistakes.
I notice you have not followed the commands of the demon.
I am very hopeful for your soul, that you show no hate.
Be bold in caring about others and God will reward you.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by pthena
 

Even if the first pretends to rejoice in Jesus, usually using a name that really means 'Yahweh, giver of law, is my only master'
If you don't mind me borrowing part of your post here.
I would like to use this quote to illustrate why I think we need to obey God in the New Testament to say, "Jesus is Lord".
If you use the Hebrew name, you are actually saying Jesus is not your Lord, but you are the servant of the Lord of Hosts who commands death and utter destruction.
Saying that Hebrew name causes you to be inviting the spirit of hate into your soul.


So what happens to all those who read the NT written in Hebrew?
Again where in the NT does it back your claims?
Instead of telling me a cultist opinion, PROVE it to me that this is a true fact.
If you can't back it with scripture then you are a false prophet.

Line is drawn in the sand son, enough of the go around and time to man up.

If not then it is time to shut up.
edit on 19/9/2011 by daikaiju because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Frira
 


So, if you are serious about the damnation due to using using any other name-- or intentionally mispronouncing the Name given, I submit that the cause of the intent is at issue. If the intent is to avoid using the power of the Name, then to what end?
* Is it to mislead others so as to deny others the power?
* Is it to guard against invoking the power out of thoughtless familiarity?
* Is it to claim for oneself something new and mystical for reasons unrelated to the love of God?

Intent matters.
Thanks for considering the question.
I agree that this whole question has a lot of facets and implications. It is a little difficult to cover all them at once but I think you made an excellent post, pointing out the complexity of what might superficially seem very simple.
I have been very alarmed of late by the actions by the followers of these practices and have great fear for them and believe they have, through their dabbling in the occult knowledge, opened themselves to demon possession.
edit on 19-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


The thread topic surprised me at first; but I think I understand what instigated it-- having seen quite a bit of that in variants of "Yehoshua."

I have encountered the argument by some of those who make use of that version who have claimed that using "Jesus" is some secret reference used by some secret evil church sect made up of of magicians and such. I gather you simply turned the argument to run the other way-- and caught a lot of flack for it.

But I do find the Scriptural use of names to suggest power. If magicians speak of incantations, it may not be the same, but it is not very far from Judeo-Christian beliefs and practices.

Consider Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and others who are very careful about what are called "the words of Institution" ("Take, eat, this is my Body..."). There is a fair sense of "Presto-Chango!" in what is said and done, but never considered "magic" by those who make use of those words in worship.

I once heard it suggested that "Abra-Cadabera" is really, "this is my body" with "cadabera" being mistaken for "cadaver" but that is a false suggestion. Still, the suggestion speaks of the awareness of many that what is said has power and effect. That, in turn, is not far removed from what is prayed also has power and effect.

Spells and pronouncing a blessing (or a curse) share the perspective that speaking it makes it so. So it is reasonable to consider what part a name, known correctly and uttered with intent, may have on the unseen and spiritual Reality as well as this transient one.

As I know you are aware, the Greek for of a name is conjugated-- something we do not do in English; and so how a name is presented has to do with the part of speech-- usually as an object of a preposition ("of"). I blame the Tower of Babel for any mistakes we may make with the Name of Jesus-- if those errors are made in good faith. (grin)



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