Originally posted by FutureThinker

Nice Video, I am well aware of this, especially since I've been a member of ATS.

I don't post very much, after reading some of the other members comments, it's pretty clear that they are not even reading the OP at all, they read the Headline and the first few words of the OP and then make some rude comment.

These people are NOT Critical Thinkers, they are Backwards Thinkers, even my 10yr old daughter knows you have to READ something to understand it.

My job requires me to continually go to school and take tests, one day in the lunch room, someone asked me if I was going to take some tests for everyone so they could get credit for them, I said NO, and I made the comment that everyone just has to do the required READING and then they could pass the tests on thier own, then the room went quiet, and they dropped the subject.

I'ts a pretty sad world that we live in.

A Critical Thinking Class starting in Elementary School should be a requirement for all students,

"Critical Thinking 101"



Peace

This is true. Critical thinking - if you don't employ it you are going to be easy to fool.

This thread has everything to do with everything. Just to answer one of those who questioned why it was even posted on ATS. Critical thinking is an absolute necessity to get through life with the least amount barriers, or shall I say...to maneuver easily around those barriers. Although, I have not mastered critical thinking and I doubt I ever will, I try to look at things from many different perspectives. For a simple example, on my way to work, I may decide it would save time to drive through a neighborhood to get there, but then...what time is it? Well, the school buses are running now and I know they should be in that neighborhood about now, so I will take an alternative direction. This is a simple example but I am just trying to get the point across. When we make decisions, we need to think about the potential consequences or possibilities involved, make sure all bases are covered and come to the conclusion that will have a positive outcome. When my wife and I have an issue we are discussing about in our relationship. I try to think of various ways to say something, so I will not hurt her feelings.

I was pulled over by a police officer two weeks ago for speeding, As he was calling in my tag, I was thinking about what excuse I was going to use. I thought," Officer, I was late to work"...but I knew that was a typical answer. I then thought," I didn't see the sign posted", terrible excuse. Then I thought, " Officer, I know I was speeding but I really wanted to talk to you about something, so I decided to speed up so you would pull me over." I decided to use that excuse. When he approached my truck, he said, "Good morning, sir. Can I see your license and registration, please?" I said, "Sure!" He asked," Do you know why I pulled you over? My reply," Yes, because I was speeding...but there is a reason. He said," And why is that? I replied, "Because I needed to ask you a question." With a puzzled expression on his face, he asked," What is that?" I replied,"This has really been bothering me lately and I was wondering if you or any of your fellow officers have ever taken a sip out of someones canteen when you suspected them of drinking and driving like the cop did in Dumb and Dumber?"

This officer busted out laughing and said, "That is the craziest excuse I have ever been given in 15 years!" He walked away shaking his head. He stopped half way to his patrol car, turned around, stared at my truck for a few seconds and walked back. He said,"Do me a favor and slow it down." I said," Thank you sir, but can you answer my question?" He looked at me for a few seconds, smiled, tapped the top of my truck and walked away.

Now that is critical thinking!!!!!! LOL

Originally posted by newcovenantThere are people whose opinions seem to be etched in stone.
Even reason does not budge them and in matters where the opposing side definitely has some valid points that can not be categorically dismissed they seem to be blinded to them and do not make accommodations for them.

There are people who appear this way who are not. There are people who have concrete ideas and decisions who come across as dismissing what you see to be as logical because you're the one not making full sense. This happens to the brightest of us. (Me? when I'm up at 5 AM in the morning, after not having slept, and my ADHD decides that I'm going to skip about 3 sentences that are required to set up a conclusion I'm trying to make. It's embarrassing as hell, but ah well.)

Don't you always want to hear the opposing argument?

There's more than not wanting to be outed as wrong. Some arguments require REAMS of defense, and in an online setting like this, there's plain not enough time in 1 lifetime to debate every single post--and there's a few threads I'm having to do this in, and I plain don't have the time to humor anyone--even when I'm right and can enlighten them, and most certainly in the areas that I'm wrong about that will NEVER have any importance in my life. This is where some, not all, of the comments that are so negative when "new ideas" pop up. The ideas generally aren't that new. The news-breaking story has about 12 different stories just like it. Many of us old grumps have "been there, done that". The only reason to stop by in such threads is there is a chance we can be wrong--and that chance is precious. The shame is when we are right and we don't say anything we're the most useless intellectuals on the face of the planet.

I can't make a decision without hearing and considering that other side and I do not see how others can, but it goes on all the time. People trying to force thought without allowing people to investigate, discover and think for themselves.

It's not always about not considering the other side. It's often that the other side has been presented umpteenth times, and still hasn't found the information (data) that is required to sway those who are against this idea. More on that later.

Also you literally don't see how others can make a decision without hearing and considering that other side because you haven't heard and considered WHO the person is you're talking to. I'm not saying you're at fault, I'm saying that if you cannot walk in this person's shoes, you won't understand how they came to their conclusions. Sometimes understanding each other is far more important than understanding the argument. Interrelational skills are paramount to communal critical thinking. The problem is for those of us who are fairly decent at this skill, we can still be wrong because there's a huge danger of reading in between the lines of what was actually said verses what we think this other person feels.

Now, I hope that made sense because I don't know if I can break that down further.

...............

Also, what is good to note is that this video is about making a SOLID CONCLUSION fully dressed in reality. What it is easy to assume after watching such a small video on critical thinking is that the Open Minded person will be swayed by each and every new source that arises. That's not how this works. We're setting aside as many of our biases/emotions/quirks as possible to try to parse pure logic through a sieve. That means that some threshold conditions have been met to come to our conclusions. Once we have a conclusion, this should be unwavering until data that meets the required threshold is introduced. For instance:

If A=B, and B=C, then A MUST = C. In this case, the required threshold for A=/=C is that either there's new evidence that A=/=B or that B=/=C. So any information that is outside of A=/=B and is outside B=/=C, and sometimes A=/=C is irrelevant and will be dismissed repeatedly. Otherwise known as someone who is fully open minded on the subject can fully dismiss a conversation as soon as it starts when it doesn't meet the criteria necessary to motivate a change in thought. (that was the "more".)

So, yes, you strive to understand even the weakest argument, but your conviction isn't necessarily going to waver into doubt mode every 5 seconds. you're understanding that you can be wrong, but that you're not always going to be.

Theoretical complication:
In a world that is ONLY black and white, that is populated with minds filled with colors, you wind up having to deal with only colored decisions. Those decisions will never be fully right, but they'll be approximate. How's that for frustrating in concept?

My education system taught me this long and hard.. long and hard.. and I'm really grateful!
It's helped in every aspect of life. Question everything, my friends. I think a great example of a cool critical thinker is George Carlin, who said just that, but could also form his views in ways that were profound and entertaining.

His charisma, and many others', has made it so that I'd have it no other way!

Cool vid.

Originally posted by TeroK
My education system taught me this long and hard.

Omg where did you study?
Has for me, critical thinking has pretty much ruined my whole education since it seems it the last thing they want, especially if the critical thinking logically comes down to the teacher not really grasping the knowledge of what he is making us learn. I have made many intelligent friends trough school but I have made a lot of teachers enemies.

To bad friends aren't the one that gives you the grades. heh

Great video.

I naturally function this way. My MBTI type is ISTJ.

Great great video. Im having a discussion with my brother right now about religion, and It's hard to explain to him when he is a Black and White thinker, and I am more of a Critical Thinker. (I.E. he is a devoted Christian, and I have no real "Religion") I posted this video on Facebook, so hopefully he and more people like him will pick this up and learn off of it.

Originally posted by User8911

Originally posted by TeroK
My education system taught me this long and hard.

Omg where did you study?
Has for me, critical thinking has pretty much ruined my whole education since it seems it the last thing they want, especially if the critical thinking logically comes down to the teacher not really grasping the knowledge of what he is making us learn. I have made many intelligent friends trough school but I have made a lot of teachers enemies.

To bad friends aren't the one that gives you the grades. heh

Absurd, without critical thinking teachers would struggle to teach maths and science, they actively prompte it within western cultures.

If your truely intrested read back a few where I described class room tasks.

One last point is that teachers , especially if your at college or university, do not want you to fail, they really dont but if you dont put your own time and effort into something your never going to get the grades you want ( in refrence to your quimm about friends giving grades).

PS, as a critical thinker, you should know that the grades you achieve are up to your self and it doesent matter if the teacher is retarted as from course books alone you can pass any exam, the teacher is there for referrence not to coach you through an exam.

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel

Originally posted by newcovenantThere are people whose opinions seem to be etched in stone.
Even reason does not budge them and in matters where the opposing side definitely has some valid points that can not be categorically dismissed they seem to be blinded to them and do not make accommodations for them.

There are people who appear this way who are not. There are people who have concrete ideas and decisions who come across as dismissing what you see to be as logical because you're the one not making full sense. This happens to the brightest of us. (Me? when I'm up at 5 AM in the morning, after not having slept, and my ADHD decides that I'm going to skip about 3 sentences that are required to set up a conclusion I'm trying to make. It's embarrassing as hell, but ah well.)

Don't you always want to hear the opposing argument?

There's more than not wanting to be outed as wrong. Some arguments require REAMS of defense, and in an online setting like this, there's plain not enough time in 1 lifetime to debate every single post--and there's a few threads I'm having to do this in, and I plain don't have the time to humor anyone--even when I'm right and can enlighten them, and most certainly in the areas that I'm wrong about that will NEVER have any importance in my life. This is where some, not all, of the comments that are so negative when "new ideas" pop up. The ideas generally aren't that new. The news-breaking story has about 12 different stories just like it. Many of us old grumps have "been there, done that". The only reason to stop by in such threads is there is a chance we can be wrong--and that chance is precious. The shame is when we are right and we don't say anything we're the most useless intellectuals on the face of the planet.

I can't make a decision without hearing and considering that other side and I do not see how others can, but it goes on all the time. People trying to force thought without allowing people to investigate, discover and think for themselves.

It's not always about not considering the other side. It's often that the other side has been presented umpteenth times, and still hasn't found the information (data) that is required to sway those who are against this idea. More on that later.

Also you literally don't see how others can make a decision without hearing and considering that other side because you haven't heard and considered WHO the person is you're talking to. I'm not saying you're at fault, I'm saying that if you cannot walk in this person's shoes, you won't understand how they came to their conclusions. Sometimes understanding each other is far more important than understanding the argument. Interrelational skills are paramount to communal critical thinking. The problem is for those of us who are fairly decent at this skill, we can still be wrong because there's a huge danger of reading in between the lines of what was actually said verses what we think this other person feels.

Now, I hope that made sense because I don't know if I can break that down further.

...............

Also, what is good to note is that this video is about making a SOLID CONCLUSION fully dressed in reality. What it is easy to assume after watching such a small video on critical thinking is that the Open Minded person will be swayed by each and every new source that arises. That's not how this works. We're setting aside as many of our biases/emotions/quirks as possible to try to parse pure logic through a sieve. That means that some threshold conditions have been met to come to our conclusions. Once we have a conclusion, this should be unwavering until data that meets the required threshold is introduced. For instance:

If A=B, and B=C, then A MUST = C. In this case, the required threshold for A=/=C is that either there's new evidence that A=/=B or that B=/=C. So any information that is outside of A=/=B and is outside B=/=C, and sometimes A=/=C is irrelevant and will be dismissed repeatedly. Otherwise known as someone who is fully open minded on the subject can fully dismiss a conversation as soon as it starts when it doesn't meet the criteria necessary to motivate a change in thought. (that was the "more".)

So, yes, you strive to understand even the weakest argument, but your conviction isn't necessarily going to waver into doubt mode every 5 seconds. you're understanding that you can be wrong, but that you're not always going to be.

Theoretical complication:
In a world that is ONLY black and white, that is populated with minds filled with colors, you wind up having to deal with only colored decisions. Those decisions will never be fully right, but they'll be approximate. How's that for frustrating in concept?

I have to admit I am a little bit lost.