It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Graphic: Crime in Canada (Harper and his Omnibus bill)

page: 1
9
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 08:56 AM
link   
The National Post is reporting that on Monday Harper will move on his omnibus crime bill that he said would be put through within 100 days of the last election.


When Parliament resumes on Monday, Stephen Harper’s majority government will push forward its Conservative agenda. Among the first pieces of legislation up for debate will be an omnibus crime bill, which is expected to set new mandatory minimum sentences for drug crimes and for certain sexual offences against children.


Source

They fail to mention the part about spying on people's internet use.

Although, this was picked up on by someone else:


Despite being very outspoken on the question of crime, Prime Minister Stephen Harper seems far from eager to discuss the legislation he's promised to pass within 100 days of taking office - legislation that will allow online spying without a warrant.

In fact, the Conservatives have rolled this invasive, costly and poorly thought-out legislation into an omnibus crime package, allowing them to avoid discussion of the details. Read more: www.timescolonist.com...



Going back to the post article, they have presented a graphic/pie chart of crime rates in Canada for 2010. Frankly, the numbers are staggering. 2.37 million crimes for a country of roughly 30 million.

A crime for 1 in 10 people




If you notice the breakdown of crimes though, you will see that over 500,000 crimes related to bicycle theft, around 300,000 are mischief, and over 100,000 are "disturb the peace".

Hardly things that warrant spying on citizens.

Vic Toews has rebounded and said that the communications part of the bill would not be arbitrarily used for spying.


A controversial bill would not compromise the internet privacy rights of Canadians and does not permit law enforcement to arbitrarily monitor online activity, according to a statement from Public Safety Minister Vic Toew's office a day after a series of commercials were released criticizing the proposal.


1

Although... It was more of a footnote in that article than anything.

To learn the alternative opinion about the communications side of the bill, visit:

openmedia.ca...
edit on 18-9-2011 by boncho because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-9-2011 by boncho because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 09:24 AM
link   
Most Canadians have been brainwashed that crime has risen here. The PM talks about how Canadians think punishment should fit the crime with his "tough on crime" bill, while Stats Canada states that crime is actually dropping.(SOURCE)

This is all just a lead in for his "MEGA" prisons he has planned. I seriously think our prison systems will some day be privatized just like they are to the south of us. I am sure this is what Harper has planned. It's a pity when prisons are thought of as "businesses" and really only exist to make someone money. They sure have no issues keeping them full.

I hope some day people will realize what is really happening.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 09:31 AM
link   
Canadians will never realize what's happening because the vast majority of Canadians are arch-conservatives that would make Americans blush. We have no national tradition of liberty and freedom to counter-act the ancient traditions of arbitrary Anglican cruelty and blind obedience to earthly powers.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 09:32 AM
link   
If there was another right wing party running during the election the vote would have been split. Harper would not have a majority.
60% of Canadians did not vote for him and Harpers ideologies don't reflect mine.

I just looked out my window to verify weather or not there are cops with machine guns posted on the corner in my neighborhood yet.
Got to check for RAV's or mini drones when me and my bro light something up.

Harper has an agenda, to make Canada his Canada, that ain't my Canada.


This builds on the news that the Harper government is planning a $222-million or 20% reduction in spending at Environment Canada. This includes a $141 million cut to climate change and clean air initiatives, as well as a $19.5-million cut to a federal action plan dealing with contaminated federal sites, and about $3-million in reductions for compliance promotion and enforcement for wildlife and pollution. From here


The link is just an example of where 'The Harper Government' (They ursurped 'The Canadian Government')
cuts things of actual importance which is in my opinion not to cut down on the deficit necessarily but to pay for an emerging dictatorial government.
Yeah, Harper wants to cut important things so he can throw pot heads in prison! At a cost of billion$$
That's messed up!

My post is not very sophisticated, but you get my point.
Harper does not represent me or 60% of us, but he has the ball now and no one is guarding the net.

Anyway S&F for Boncho.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 09:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by rollster
This is all just a lead in for his "MEGA" prisons he has planned. I seriously think our prison systems will some day be privatized just like they are to the south of us. I am sure this is what Harper has planned. It's a pity when prisons are thought of as "businesses" and really only exist to make someone money.


Not going to happen. It's been tried and it failed spectacularly.

As far as Little Stevie, well, there goes the neighborhood. It's only 3 years and 8 months to the next election. How much harm can he possibly do in that time? I'd have to go with......

edit on 18-9-2011 by intrepid because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 09:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by rollster
Most Canadians have been brainwashed that crime has risen here. The PM talks about how Canadians think punishment should fit the crime with his "tough on crime" bill, while Stats Canada states that crime is actually dropping.(SOURCE)

This is all just a lead in for his "MEGA" prisons he has planned. I seriously think our prison systems will some day be privatized just like they are to the south of us. I am sure this is what Harper has planned. It's a pity when prisons are thought of as "businesses" and really only exist to make someone money. They sure have no issues keeping them full.

I hope some day people will realize what is really happening.



You are correct. If anyone has been reading between the headlines of the past year (?) or so, private prisons are right around the corner - to be built for us all.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 09:51 AM
link   
reply to post by intrepid
 


The best part is that this omnibus bill is completely uncontroversial in Canada. What little controversy is stirred up is rational. Rationalism never wins elections. Sensationalism does. We can expect to see this omnibus bill pass without a struggle on either side, and it will either be hailed as a great success or will pass quietly. In either case, it will be enforced quietly, and come the next election Harper will have won a massive victory in the War Against Crime[inalized citizens].

He will win another majority unless the Pensioner party can unseat him. How dreary!



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 09:54 AM
link   
reply to post by intrepid
 


Unfortunately, anything Harper does during his reign will be carried out for years afterwards. The crime bills I believe are going to have a review process built into them, but one of the problems with things like this is that it becomes difficult to reverse changes made.

We are talking in terms of decades before the pendulum swings again. (Based off a discussion with a lawyer friend [sorry no source to link])


What are the facts: Correctional Services Canada's budget has shot up to $3 billion from $1.6 billion in 2007. More than 4,000 staff will be hired and 2,700 spaces added in prisons. Police ranks increased to 69,299 in 2010 from 62,461 in 2006. The number of crimes reported to police in 2010 was the fewest since 1973 Read more: www.montrealgazette.com...


With the added space needed, mega-prisons are being built as we speak, or at least planned out.

Mega billion dollar prison plan lays the groundwork for Harper’s plan to increase crime rates

Unfortunately, media coverage is slim to none in this regard. But if you know an insider, they can attest to the fact that surveys have been going on the last year and plans have been drawn up.

It's happening.

What I worry about, is the prison industry taking over the labor market as it has happened in other places. A Toronto newspaper did an article a few years ago showing that as the car plants shut down in Michigan, an equal amount of prisons popped up in place, employing/or housing about the same number of people


...prisons took the place of the dying agricultural economy in Texas in the same way the prison “industry” is replacing the closed factories of Michigan
1

Is that what people want for Canada?






posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:00 AM
link   
reply to post by SmedleyBurlap
 


And now with Jack Layton gone, there is no voice of opposition at all. Nobody is paying attention to the conservatives as they are too busy (the NDP) trying to find a leader.

I can envision Stephen Harper rubbing his palms together with a Monty Burns 'EXCELLENT!" when Jack kicked it.
"nothing can stop me!; MUAA Ha Ha Haa aaaa!"



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:02 AM
link   
reply to post by boncho
 


Idk if it will be viable to have inmates doing outside work. They would only be able to do work for the province and the union will NOT let that happen. Mega jails? They're already building them. There's one in Penetang. Lindsey, and the one in Milton where I work. Another is going to open in T.O. next year that will house almost as many as those 3 combined. 5000 when full. Mind you that's provincial.


edit on 18-9-2011 by intrepid because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by boncho

What I worry about, is the prison industry taking over the labor market as it has happened in other places. A Toronto newspaper did an article a few years ago showing that as the car plants shut down in Michigan, an equal amount of prisons popped up in place, employing/or housing about the same number of people


...prisons took the place of the dying agricultural economy in Texas in the same way the prison “industry” is replacing the closed factories of Michigan
1

Is that what people want for Canada?


Not being Canadian it is not what I would want for Canada or any place, but I do not get a say in the matter. This becomes a popular agenda almost everywhere it is introduced so I expect Canadians will eat it up just like the US does.

It's getting difficult to keep everyone gainfully employed, not from the lack of desire to be productive but from an increasing lack of work. So it would seem locking people up is the government's solution as it does provide for jobs for some and housing for others. People will have to come to understand that if they want to be contributing members of their society they will have to toe the line as never before and prove they can take orders about how to conduct their lives and not question arbitrary authority. Obviously crime statistics mean little or nothing and there is a much greater agenda to all this.

Oh Canada.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:31 AM
link   
reply to post by intrepid
 


The shift now though is for Mega Prisons for Federal sentences. For anyone reading that is not aware, that is a sentence that is over 2 years in duration.

Federal Prisons are currently being expanded, and there was talking of building a new "Mega" styled one completely from scratch. Currently they are just upgrading(?) older ones to this effect.

The reason Federal prisons have to be expanded has to do with this bill and other changes that have been made. Minimum mandatory sentences, along with the removal of 2 for 1 (extra time for pretrial custody) will cause a rapid growth in the federal prison population.

As you mentioned, provincial jails are already massive, but they are holding people short term. When we are talking about expansion in federal prisons, we are talking about people being away for 2 years +. A growth in these prisons has extreme consequences.

Long term absence from the world cannot be good for any individual that has a high chance of acclimating to society standards. Not only that, but another factor will be loss of familial unit, and income for the prisoners families. (Although this does not apply to everyone as some income gains by some offenders were causing a negative effect on society).

Total impact of the whole thing? Time will tell.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by boncho
Long term absence from the world cannot be good for any individual that has a high chance of acclimating to society standards. Not only that, but another factor will be loss of familial unit...


Most of these people are habitual offenders. Jail is just a second home for them. They have visits. I'm not sure but they may even have contact visits in the federal system.


...and income for the prisoners families. (Although this does not apply to everyone as some income gains by some offenders were causing a negative effect on society).


I know it may seem harsh but the words from Keep Your Eye on the Sparrow are true. "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

ETA: I do feel for the children though. Seeing these kids brought in to see Daddy in jail. What's that teaching them? :shk:


edit on 18-9-2011 by intrepid because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:47 AM
link   
reply to post by intrepid


Most of these people are habitual offenders. Jail is just a second home for them. They have visits. I'm not sure but they may even have contact visits in the federal system.

 


They do have visits in the federal system. In fact, they even have 2-3 day periods where their families can stay with them. Which I think is needed, to maintain the familial unit as best as possible.



Most of these people are habitual offenders. Jail is just a second home for them.


Untrue. There are people who have been represented by inept lawyers that end up with federal sentences. The most important thing, is that the new legislation is making it so mandatory sentences are give to people that are not habitual offenders. And there is nothing judges can do to stop it.




I know it may seem harsh but the words from Keep Your Eye on the Sparrow are true. "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."


True, but much more complicated than just a catchphrase. There are a million factors present in regards to crime and punishment. Politics being the largest one.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by boncho




Most of these people are habitual offenders. Jail is just a second home for them.


Untrue. There are people who have been represented by inept lawyers that end up with federal sentences. The most important thing, is that the new legislation is making it so mandatory sentences are give to people that are not habitual offenders. And there is nothing judges can do to stop it.


Very true. I've been in the system for 10 years. You see them coming back. Again and again and again. I used to try and help them by talking with them. Couldn't understand why others didn't. I get it now though, it's futile.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 11:04 AM
link   
reply to post by intrepid


Very true. I've been in the system for 10 years. You see them coming back. Again and again and again. I used to try and help them by talking with them. Couldn't understand why others didn't. I get it now though, it's futile.

 


Mental illness is one of the leading factors IMO. Not only that, but angst. It is hard for someone to feel remorse for a crime, when a politician like Mulroney was found to have committed a crime (Tax Evasion, etc) admitting it in a public forum, and nothing happens.

What do you say to someone who ran a shoddy small business and ended up with a federal sentence? "Oh, you caused great harm to society..."

In his head, he sees it for what it is. A class/political war.

If politicians are not held to the same accord as common man, the common man will never accept the punishment. Case in point, the fiasco with the former Attorney General killing the person on a bicycle.

It was pretty clear he was not treated as most are when involved in the same situation.



Should people give up? Well, you are holding people against their will. It is not going to be easy for you to get your point across. While I understand these people have broken the laws, still, they need to be treated with worth or they will never find it in themselves.

Expanding on communication is probably the most important thing that needs to be done. And while investigative techniques are used to turn them on each other, it does not bode well for the parties involved. Within the offender population, massive distrust and suspicion is formed against fellow offenders, and people administering the punishment.

I would imagine many of people involved in this system already have trust issues. This can't be helping.

How to go about it exactly? I'll leave it up to the criminologists. Some friends of mine that studied that field have little or no understanding of the complexities (self admitted) which is a little bothersome, considering that the way this issue is dealt with, has an overall impact on everyone in the country.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 11:18 AM
link   
Then there are people serving time for laws they do not agree with. Many of these laws are governed with a double-standard. Mandatory sentencing for pot-users? That is a splendid example. It appears they are about to step-up incarceration efforts against such heinous scoff-laws that are degrading society. Many will not agree with these phoney prohibition laws and will be repeat offenders. That's what this is all about, no?



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 11:18 AM
link   
This prison fetish is one of those things that makes me wonder whether we really live in an intelligent society or not.

It immediately appears to me that the reason these harsh criminal laws are passed is that the public is full of moralistic hypocrites and morons who think that they are a good thing. The Public is easily sensationalized by any sort of crime, and demand immediate and disproportionately broad and severe punishment for the crime in question.

Of course, the news media report on and sensationalize criminal offenses because it brings them ratings from the fear-junkies that watch TV. Fear is far more addictive than pleasant news stories, and or them it is all about money. This is also why news outlets become biased in favour of one political faction or another - their readers or viewers are afraid of what will happen if their political opponents gain power or advance their social agendas. Political and social bias in the news doesn't need to reflect the opinion of the owners or editors - it only has to reflect the opinion of the consumer, and amplify it.

But then I wonder why these politicians are so eager to sensationalize crime and demand that 'the punishment fit the crime' (a prison sentence is in no way a fair trade for murder: how do harsher sentences fit the crime?). Obviously it is a way to garner higher 'ratings,' but why the particular zeal that they bring to the task? I suspect that most conservatives are into BDSM, but that is an aside. Really it appears to me that anti-crime politicians are just as disgusted by crime as their constituents. They aren't merely manipulating the voters with fear tactics to get votes - they are manipulating the voters into agreeing with them that these crimes are heinous. The news outlets act as accomplices to this.

But then I wonder, what is the actual rational content of any moral outrage over crime? Let's say that the politicians and news are working together, directly or indirectly, to bring the opinions of the public in line with the opinions of draconian elites. Their goal is to bring everyone's morals in line with the law, and to bring the law in line with everyone's morals. What is the moral outrage that they are tapping into, to make this happen?

Take, for example, bestiality. This is a crime in Canada and in many other countries besides. Let's pretend that it is not currently a crime, and that this morning there was a CBC report on some sort of animal brothel. What would the public's response be? Confusion? Disgust? Titillation? Probably some combination of all three, and more. What would be the reaction? I think that most people, rather than suspend judgment and think critically about the practice, would immediately leap to defend their feeling that it is 'icky.' They would subjugate reason to emotion, instead of thinking clearly about it. They would decry it as unnatural (humans cannot procreate with animals) or disgusting (animals are stinky and unattractive!) or unhygienic (you'll get mad cow disease!!) or some such else. Their moral outrage would appear to be based on reason but would in fact be nothing more than a thinly-veiled declaration of


EWWW


And because of their immediate reaction to the report, because they act faster and more strongly than rational people who sit and ponder whether animals and humans are capable of healthy interaction of that sort, their EWWW would become law. And it would be promulgated through the media and the education system as anti-bestiality propaganda. And it would become the received opinion of future generations that this EWWW is a natural law, not a human law. And future politicians would likewise believe in this EWWW and would try to bring the opinions of the masses into line with the law and their own opinion. And the rational response would be drowned out and declared a thought crime before it could even come to a conclusion, one way or another.

I chose to use bestiality as an example because we can all say EWWW to it. But replace it with homosexuality, or bigamy, or miscegenation, and you will see that this exact process has played out many times in the past. It's not just sexual crimes, of course, but any and all moral crimes boil down to this triumph of ignorance over reason.

I had hoped that there was some nefarious agenda behind these omnibus crime laws, but I can't really see one. I would prefer our society to be intelligent and malignant, rather that ignorant and malignant.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 11:20 AM
link   

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
Mandatory sentencing for pot-users?


Not in Canada. Dealers and growers yes. Not users.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 11:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
Mandatory sentencing for pot-users?


Not in Canada. Dealers and growers yes. Not users.


You cannot have one without the other. Another example of politics. If someone went back in time and tried to explain our social/political system, they would have been thrown in the nuthouse.

Those days were grand...



How far have we come?



new topics

top topics



 
9
<<   2 >>

log in

join