Elenin Has Not Survived Perihelion...Or Has It?

reply to post by LightAssassin

Fact is Mr Francis Walsh has blown this topic wide open again.

No, he hasn't. You'll note that I have been questioning his competence, not his honesty. You, on the other hand, seem to be questioning Mattiazzo's honesty. From an astronomer's point of view, Walsh's video is the equivalent of a lay person holding a medical X-ray up to a light and saying: "I definitely don't see any heart attack in this picture."

I thought you were the one that wanted an intelligent discussion here. I am perfectly willing to entertain the possibility that Elenin is not breaking up; after all, that is an interpretation of the data. The fact, however, is that several independent observers have noted a decrease in brightness. I have asked you if you have a theory of your own to explain this; instead you keep banging away at Mattiazzo's credibility. Why?

spot on title

reply to post by DJW001


What? No, not his credibility. Just some factors that aren't clear.

It's too close to the sun to see now. It's merely speculation from here on in.

I've presented this, it's in the interests of people to consider this too. Francis seems like an honest guy, like Michael, who has a keen interest in Astronomy. So much so he is building an observatory. Now, he may not have been following comets for a long time but he has certainly invested time and money into rent-a-scopes to track Elenin, and previously had no issues in finding it, nor did he on Sept 2. It is also obviously clear with the different filters applied.

Factors as to why dimming is occuring on Michaels photos. Simple. Light pollution, and plenty of it. From the moon to how close to the Sun it is now getting to where it was taken in South Australia. Can you show me who else has verified his findings with their own independent photos? Leonid Elenin used Michaels info to declare it so, but who else has verified it?

reply to post by LightAssassin


If you will refer to Chad's thread, one of my last post's in there included a bunch of links from Sydney Star Gazers who took their own pictures and confirmed Mattiazzo's findings. They even have a photo that they believe shows the nucleus broken into three different pieces.

There has been plenty of interest in Comet Elenin right from the start, why are there so few people with pictures? Why did Leonard Elenin have only Mattiazzo's photo's on his website. Why and where are the photos from all the thousands of amateur astronomers?

Mmmm perhaps I'm a bit confused.

Didn't the comet melt at perihelion recently? Perihelion occurred in the last few days correct? 14th-17th?

The pictures from Walsh are dated Sept 2nd, before the supposed "melt"


Of course it was still there on Sept 2nd, pre perihelion.

Once again I find myself working my way through another Elenin thread. I would not read them if the available information did not interest me. Once again we have the regular naysayers that get off on telling every one proposing a thought how wrong they are. Clearly visible theirs are the negatively biased posts which cast derision and scorn on any idea that strays from their norm. Not the scientists and critical thinkers they portray themselves to be, their bias available for all to see.
I personally like just learning about the tech that allows us to learn more about these things to see the passion of the researchers as they learn more about their universe and share it with us. Thank you to the op and everyone else who has provided so that I may learn more about this fascinating subject.
It is a credit to those who would dare suggest an idea outside the norm a thought which is damned by the insecure who so afraid something might challenge their position cast doubt on the character and ability of that thought bringer. Ah Charles Fort thank you for teaching me to see these challenged folks.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Sorry, I cannot confirm that.

There is only Sydney Stargazers using Michael Mattiazzo photo.

Michael Mattiazzo took a picture of comet elenin yesterday which we looked at today. The picture shows further proof that comet Elenin has broken up into pieces as a result of the effect of the sun’s gravity and heat on it.

Comet Elenin should almost be a 6th magnitude comet at this stage, meaning that it should be almost visible to the naked eye. Instead however, Elenin is now reported to be a 10th magnitude comet which is now a faint smudge in the sky using telescopes.

Radio astronomers have also reported that the radio signals they bounced off the comet show that elenin has no water which indicates a comet breakup.

We processed the picture taken by Michael Mattiazzo to remove some of the background noise but as you can see there is very little left of comet elenin. The comet is in the lower center of the picture. We expect that there will be nothing to see of the comet after the next week or two.

Or again Sydney Star Gazers confirm that on Sept 2nd no condensation was visible, again using Leonid Elenins info as per below

We have been getting a lot of emails from people telling us that comet elenin has not broken up because they have seen recent pictures of it.

Unfortunately we cannot keep on answering the same question again and again to convince people that the comet has indeed broken up.

Instead we would like to refer people to Leonid Elenin’s new post on his blog where he talks more about how the comet is breaking up and the opportunity it gives us to study the comet.

Note in his post where he states the following:

On images from Sept. 1st in the comet’s coma there was no condensation visible, and that meant the comet had already broken up into fairly small pieces, with a maximum size of not more than a hundred meters.

Such a breakup of small comets passing near the Sun is not rare, and in that is nothing surprising. I note that this is a breakup, not an explosion. All the pieces continue to move on the comet’s trajectory. The large fragments are likely to continue to disintegrate into smaller ones. It is possible that in October when the comet moves into the morning sky, we will no longer be able to see what once was Comet Elenin.

This is exactly what we are seeing in recent pictures.

spaceobs.org...

And from the above link from Leonid Elenins site Spaceobs continued in next post

reply to post by LightAssassin

L. Elenin
As many readers already know, Comet Elenin has begun the irreversible process of breaking up. We spoke earlier about the probablility of such an outcome, but I considered it less than 50%. On the graph at left you can see a selection of ten comets that approach the Sun closer than 0.5 a.u. The red line shows the boundary, to the left of which, derived from J. Bortle’s formula, is the safe zone, but to the right is the zone of disintegration. The yellow color shows Comet Elenin, with absolute magnitude obtained by visual observations, and the blue is from JPL-NASA data. As we see, Bortle’s formula, all-in-all, doesn’t work too badly. Although there is a bright exception – the green triangle belongs to the unique comet 96P/Machholtz, about which I will speak next time.

Now it is absolutely clear that the comet’s drop in brightness, first noted by Michael Mattiazzo on Aug. 20th, was not coincidental – the decay process had already begun, and over the course of the next several days the comet changed greatly. Its pseudo-nucleus became diffuse and extended, and later vanished completely. On images from Sept. 1st in the comet’s coma there was no condensation visible, and that meant the comet had already broken up into fairly small pieces, with a maximum size of not more than a hundred meters.

Such a breakup of small comets passing near the Sun is not rare, and in that is nothing surprising. I note that this is a breakup, not an explosion. All the pieces continue to move on the comet’s trajectory. The large fragments are likely to continue to disintegrate into smaller ones. It is possible that in October when the comet moves into the morning sky, we will no longer be able to see what once was Comet Elenin. It is possible that something will be visible to large earth-based telescopes. The breakup of a long-period comet fairly close to the Earth (on a Solar System scale) is a rather rare event. During such a breakup we can see the interior of the comet to better understand its construction and composition.

Overall, the most scientifically interesting thing is the breakup scenario, but unfortunately right now the comet is not visible to the largest telescopes or even the Hubble Space Telescope because of its close angular distance from the Sun (small elongation). On the other hand, amateur astronomers, awaiting this comet which might have been visible to the unaided eye, will now not see it, at least visually in their telescopes and binoculars.

We will wait for Sept. 23rd when the comet is due to appear in the field of view of the SOHO space coronagraph. Any result will tell us what we can expect at the beginning of October when the comet once again should appear in the pre-dawn sky. We will wait. The end of this story is near…

Where are these additional photo's showing the nucleus broken up?

reply to post by favouriteslave


What was being said about it on Sept 2 from 2 different parties was differing info. As per my OP. I am raising the question, as per my OP. Hence the 'Or has it?'

reply to post by LightAssassin

Light pollution, and plenty of it.

Light pollution? Lots of light pollution that increases steadily simultaneously in separate locations in Australia, New Zealand and Brazil? Really?
www.icq.eps.harvard.edu...

reply to post by DJW001


Oh, and I apologize for not having photo's of Mr Mattiazzo as to be able to judge him by how he looks. I'm glad you've given people evidence of the measure in which you deem people credible.

Oh wait, I found one

reply to post by DJW001


THAT IS NOT HIS VIEWING LOCATION

He lists his observatory locations:

Observatory codes: D87 Brooklyn Park, D82 Wallaroo, 427 Stockport

Here

More and more like the dis-info agent I thought you were.

Originally posted by Shirak
Once again I find myself working my way through another Elenin thread. I would not read them if the available information did not interest me. Once again we have the regular naysayers that get off on telling every one proposing a thought how wrong they are. Clearly visible theirs are the negatively biased posts which cast derision and scorn on any idea that strays from their norm. Not the scientists and critical thinkers they portray themselves to be, their bias available for all to see.
I personally like just learning about the tech that allows us to learn more about these things to see the passion of the researchers as they learn more about their universe and share it with us. Thank you to the op and everyone else who has provided so that I may learn more about this fascinating subject.
It is a credit to those who would dare suggest an idea outside the norm a thought which is damned by the insecure who so afraid something might challenge their position cast doubt on the character and ability of that thought bringer. Ah Charles Fort thank you for teaching me to see these challenged folks.

Great post.

It seems that the favourite method of attack is ridicule, a crash course in history will confirm that this is normal human behaviour. Star for you.

dont-tread-on.me...

reply to post by LightAssassin

Oh, and I apologize for not having photo's of Mr Mattiazzo as to be able to judge him by how he looks. I'm glad you've given people evidence of the measure in which you deem people credible.

I judged his credibility based on his lack of mastery of the tools he was using. The fact that he was clearly drunk did not help. Now, are you seriously proposing that the observations of Elenin's dimming, seen by observers all over the world, was due to light pollution?

reply to post by LightAssassin

THAT IS NOT HIS VIEWING LOCATION

I'm not talking about Mattiazzo, I'm talking about the half dozen people around the world whose observations confirm his. The least you can do is click on the link and look for yourself.

reply to post by XplanetX

It seems that the favourite method of attack is ridicule, a crash course in history will confirm that this is normal human behaviour.

Like this?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by LightAssassin


If you had spent even five more seconds on the Sydney Star Gazers site you would have seen the three other posts the have discussing the breakup of Elenin, each with pictures taken by their members.

August 30th


August 15th - August 26th


Elenin in three pieces. August 24th

reply to post by DJW001


What does it tell me?

That is goes dim then bright then dim then bright.

Aug. 23.39, 8.9, 3' (M. Mattiazzo, Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia, 25x100 binoculars);
22.39, 8.8, 3' (M. Mattiazzo, Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia, 25x100 binoculars);
21.37, 8.1, 5' (D. A. J. Seargent, Cowra, NSW, Australia, 25x100 binoculars);
21.31, 8.6, 4' (S. T. Rae, Hamilton, New Zealand, 9x63 binoculars);
20.31, 8.3, 5' (S. T. Rae, Hamilton, New Zealand, 9x63 binoculars);
19.39, 8.1, 4' (M. Mattiazzo, Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia, 25x100 binoculars; zodiacal light);
19.36, 8.4, 4' (D. A. J. Seargent, Cowra, NSW, Australia, 25x100 binoculars);
18.30, 8.3, 4' (S. T. Rae, Hamilton, New Zealand, 9x63 binoculars);
17.39, 8.2, 4' (M. Mattiazzo, Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia, 25x100 binoculars; zodiacal light);
16.94, 8.9, 4' (M. Goiato, Aracatuba, Brazil, 20x100 binoculars);
16.91, 8.3, 4' (A. Amorim, Florianopolis, Brazil, 0.18-m reflector);
16.91, 8.3, 3' (W. Souza, Sao Paulo, Brazil, 20x80 binoculars);
16.38, 8.4, 5' (D. A. J. Seargent, Cowra, NSW, Australia, 25x100 binoculars);
13.90, 8.3, -- (A. Amorim, Florianopolis, Brazil, 0.18-m reflector; moonlight);
12.90, 8.4, 3' (A. Amorim, Florianopolis, Brazil, 0.18-m reflector; moonlight);
7.91, 8.8, 3' (A. Amorim, Florianopolis, Brazil, 0.18-m reflector; moonlight, light pollution);
7.39, 9.0, 3' (M. Mattiazzo, Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia, 25x100 binoculars; moonlight);

You're giving me nothing. Just trying to confuse those who don't understand.

The problem with this tread and the tread about Elenin not surviving, misses one gigantic issue.

None of you have gathered the information yourself, even if you did have the right information, I would still be skeptic because I don't believe easily.

You see, Elenin threads have lost all sense of discernation between truth in lie.
It's getting emotional and most of you can't see strait, lost in this empty fight against yourselves.

Get a ^%$&*telescope and go look at the beep! comet yourself ...

No I don't fully trust scientists no more since it's controlled by money and I don't fully trust mr nobody coming out with "piiictures". They both could be lying and you should do like I do!

At this point, I don't CARE till it gets close, till I can see it myself.

Will a portal to another world open or will nothing special will happen.
Will there be gigantic earthquakes with the axis of the earth getting twisted around or will sheep become pink from evolving?

I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows, we will all know when we get there, or will we?
This might just never end, just don't make it emotional and think with an open mind.! [