Elenin Has Not Survived Perihelion...Or Has It?

reply to post by this_is_who_we_are

because_________________"

It can be used for research.

It can be used for statistical purposes.

It can be used for historical purposes.

It can be used by Phage in two years to show that Elenin was nothing but an insignificant comet.

There is no reason not to.

Originally posted by ThePerfectMinds

I think the 10th of October will be the earliest to get the comet back in the GRAS scopes. I will try every morning until it is high enough and I can get my next series of images. I do not know what I will find. When I saw it last (Sept. 2), I saw one piece. That is why I continue to say one piece. I will report what I find when I take new images.

Wow, it seemed like the 10th took forever!

I know that does not guarantee any additional info but what little does come through will be revealing in what ever fashion, this much is for certain!

Francis, just a note to let you know that we are patiently waiting! LOL Seeing as the Rapture didn't happen "again" we need something to sink our doominess into!

Even if it has broken up I would love to see the results as the CME blast that was recorded previously did not appear to do anything to ELE-nin, from my recollection of that event.

reply to post by Phage

Originally posted by Phage

It can be used by Phage in two years to show that Elenin was nothing but an insignificant comet.

Intriguing that you need two years Phage, given the fact you have never considered it anything more than insignificant so far; maybe within two years the debris field will wipe us out and you thought it best to give yourself a lead-way!

I love how one tiny reference can set the mind into the Doom again! I feel better now!

Hello everyone. UPDATE

I have taken new images of the space where comet Elenin should be. I took them on the 8th, 10th, and 11th. All the images need more looking into. The images on the 10th might have been affected by something known as RBI, which is a ghost image showing up on the first saved CCD camera file.

That means it looks like something is there but someone told me it's not because of this issue.

I took 50 images this morning. 20 with GRAS-004 and 30 with GRAS-011.

Anyone who wants to receive an email with the 20 small jpg preview files I have from GRAS-004 is welcome to receive an email from me if I know where to send it. My email is awewriter at gmail.

I will take requests today.

Look at them and help me out. I hardly have time to look at the images I take.

The email I will send will be chuck filled with cools bits of GRAS info, the viewing conditions and then the 20 preview jpegs attached in the same email.

So... The first nights' imaging on the 8th I used the GRAS-011 set the exposure for 300 seconds and I couldn't see anything in them (They still need more review time though honestly.)

The next night I take a series with the GRAS-004 and I see something ("Two Pieces") moving over the four image series but it was told to me, "By Leonid Elenin" that it is this RBI ghost.

Today I haven't had a chance to look but I have 50 new images.


I was thinking today.... "What if it slowed down?" "Do I need to insert these coordinates tomorrow and then next day to to see if it shows up later?"

It's not a fun or easy job, comet hunting, but I'm going to try to finish the story anyways.

Have a good afternoon,

Francis

reply to post by ThePerfectMinds


Thank you for your persistent effort. I am happy to see someone who is actually acquiring the skills they need to investigate something that interests the. Happy hunting!

reply to post by ThePerfectMinds

I was thinking today.... "What if it slowed down?" "Do I need to insert these coordinates tomorrow and then next day to to see if it shows up later?"

While there is no reason to think it slowed down, if it had, the orbital elements would change. The shape of the orbit is intimately linked to the velocity of the object. The shape of the orbit would be different. It would not just "move back" along the projected orbit.

Couldn't the orbital dynamics be affected if the comet broke up, since the pieces would have less inertia and the suns gravity would have a greater effect on the smaller pieces, which could be mostly a mass of dust, especially after perihelion while the mass is escaping the suns pull? I know a comet close approach to a planet can change it's orbital trajectory why not the sun if the mass of the comet has changed? Smaller pieces and dust wouldn't act the same as the collective mass in whole to extreme gravitational influences, like the sun.

Originally posted by Illustronic
Couldn't the orbital dynamics be affected if the comet broke up, since the pieces would have less inertia and the suns gravity would have a greater effect on the smaller pieces, which could be mostly a mass of dust, especially after perihelion while the mass is escaping the suns pull?

Actually no, this seems to be a common misperception. The intertia of the pieces is still the same as the whole original comet. The inertia hasn't decreased, as a sum total of the pieces it remains the same. Some come away from the breakup with a little more, some a little less, but taken together they have the same net inertia as the original. The difference in the velocity between each is rather small, especially compared to the total velocity it has relative to the sun right now, thus it appears to elongate over time as the pieces gradually spread out along the orbit. The sun pulls on all objects at a given distance with equal force, just as a hammer and a feather will hit the moon's surface at the same time if dropped from an equal height. The smallest bits, dust, have very little mass and that means the solar wind has a greater influence (gravity's influence is constant) which is why comets develop tails. Those tails form on the comet-sun line, and the tail of the comet does not intersect our orbit because it was much too far away at the time that it crossed the ecliptic plane.

reply to post by Illustronic

The inertia (angular momentum specifically) would be less for the fragments but so would the force of gravity (being proportional to the two masses) exerted between them and the Sun. The balance of the two forces wouldn't change appreciably so neither would the orbital velocities of the fragments. When dealing with objects orbiting the Sun the mass of the object, being so much less than that of the Sun, becomes irrelevant (or nearly enough so) in the short term. It is the distance from the primary which determines orbital velocity. For a given orbit, the object must travel at a given rate. For example (using idealized numbers):
The Earth completes an orbit in 365.194 days. A 1 kg rock in Earth's orbit completes an orbit in...365.194 days.
www.calctool.org...

Very, very small fragments (dust) are affected by the solar wind and pushed outward from the Sun. Since the dust is forced into a different ("higher") orbit, its orbital velocity does decrease. This is why the dust tail of a comet follows a curved path away from the nucleus.

reply to post by ThePerfectMinds


I've sent you an email. I'm keen to check them out merely for educational purposes.

Thanks guys for the detailed explanations.

I was one on the side of a breakup would not change the progressive trajectory of elenin but now I have greater insight on why. I seemed to have drifted from the stance when I considered very fine particles and forgot a bit about the science. I'm better now, I'll be OK.

ELE-nin was blasted with a CME prior to the "disappearance", which cannot be dismissed as a passing wind! That could slow something down!

I cannot wait to get confirmation that ELE-nin is still with us!

reply to post by LightAssassin


I'm looking at the photos now and cannot work out reference stars to see which location Elenin is in? I've grabbed the orbital elements from JPL and parsed them into Stellarium for a better idea of where to look, but I cannot see any of the stars matching up to the location Elenin is in...?

reply to post by Greensage

Really? You think so?

Comet Enke was inside the orbit of Mercury in 2007 when it encountered a CME head on. The comet didn't slow down but its tail was ripped off. Elenin was farther away, near the orbit of Venus and the CME hit it at about a 45º angle.
science.nasa.gov...

A typical CME is a better vacuum than can be created in laboratories, a dense one reaching 30-40 protons per cubic centimeter. It does not have the ability to slow a comet down. If the comet had slowed down its orbit would have changed. Such a change would have been noted.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by LightAssassin

 

I'm looking at the photos now and cannot work out reference stars to see which location Elenin is in? I've grabbed the orbital elements from JPL and parsed them into Stellarium for a better idea of where to look, but I cannot see any of the stars matching up to the location Elenin is in...?

Well you're not going to see anything. Stellarium's default configuration is poorly suited to generate charts for hunting extraordinarily dim comets: there just that many stars built in to its database and for an object like this you really need to be able to identify your field to ID the comet. You could add in additional stars to Stellarium, but the easiest way is just to plate solve the image and look for it in the precise coordinates its supposed to be at. It's not something you're going to see by eye or even with optical aid. I just took an image of the comet's position this morning using a .5 meter research grade telescope and saw nothing there.
farm7.static.flickr.com...
The pair of faint fuzzies near the center are a pair of extremely faint and distant galaxies. I'm currently putting the image through astrometrics to examine the exact coordinates the comet should have been at to see if anything remains. At the moment it's fair to say, it's dead Jim.

reply to post by ngchunter


Yeah I am with you on that. Seems I'll be deleting this thread from my signature very very soon.

reply to post by LightAssassin


this looks more like a hut diesigned to observe the mating habits of "hill billy women" instead of observing the cosmos. it appears to be a residential neiborhood an there will be tons of artificial light interference imo. i'm no astromomer or cosmologist but it seems pretty cut and dry to me. then on top of that , some of the most techno abvanced scopes in the world are having a hard time seeing it.. but hey that's just me, one of 7 billion.

sorry, more to the point... why are we worried about this comet i have not seen any orbital graphos that wouold make me want to water, flash light, and a crate of canned goods. and just to make myself clear i am knocking the gu efforts, kudos to him. lets say for one moment impact was iminent with no viable POA to change its orbit or destroy it. why are we worried about it. to quote Samuel L Jackson from "Jurrassic Park"......."Hold on to your butts"

reply to post by MCKITHERNJ


AND, WITH ALL THE ISSUES CONSUMNG THE GLOBE RIGHT NOW. IF WE WERE IMPACTED WE HAD AMPLE WARNING AND CASULTIES WERE LOW; THE EARTH WHICH IS OLD AND BUSTED COULD TURN INTO THE "NEW HOTNESS" OF THE GALAXY. MAYBE A CLEAN RESTROOM AND PLATE LUCHCES FOR THOSE CROSS GALAY FREIGHT CARRIES. EATH, THE SAPCE STATIOJ ON EATH WOULD BE AWSOME..........

Firstly, he uses rent-a-scopes, and that observatory would do. I don't believe you know his precise location, as I do not, and therefore you cannot make a judgement based on that. You are also over 30 days late! It's just a cloud of dust now.

The purpose of this thread was to provide people with evidence that was contradicting other evidence around the same date.

As for your last comment, What the heck man? Caps lock stuck or something?