Occupy Wall Street Has Begun!

What do we need to occupy to make sure everyone has a place to live, one car or reliable means of transportation, food and a new way of living where things are not so expensive. (the banks, washington DC) We need to go further than just wall st. What about the greedy oil companies and the all the wars? Our whole system must change and until it does OCCUPY every place, everywhere that is oppressing us. Squat the empty forclosed homes and give free food to the homeless openly. There is so much work to be done. I will give the homeless free food and I will become part of a protest in my area. This is for everyone not just a select group. It is time to come together as human beings and citzens of the USA and the world!

reply to post by dreamseeker


I'm not picking on you I agree with your post, I just hope you realise what you're talking about is the abolition of capitalism. As capitalism is the root of those problems you mention.

We have to have something to replace capitalism. If we don't take over and run it ourselves, socialism, then what other choice is there?

I just want people to realise that.

The cops also did not let the protest onto wall street. They were blocking them at every intersection and forcing them onto Broadstreet. The protestors are mostly socialist from the signs I have seen. Just a sprinkling of some Ron Paul folks.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by ANOK


So once again socialism is 'the workers ownership of the means of production', not government handouts, national health care etc.

Ok, they go unused because there is no profit. Why no profit? Most likely because no one is buying the product. What good does it do to produce a product no one is buying? This is why workers don't make good owners. You can't just produce something and hope to get paid. You have to produce a good or service someone else wants. If they don't want it, they won't buy it, you still go hungry but now you have wasted time and resources. You advocate workers owning the means of production. I have to ask, have you met the "workers"? I mean seriously, most of them don't want the responsibility of having to decide things. Most of them want to do as little as possible, then they want to go and turn on the idiot box preferably with some form of alcohol or drug. These people let american idol distract them from reality. I am sorry, I wish the old style "American spirit" would return. It is dead or at least fading away. Many people prefer their slavery.

Have you ever heard of a cooperative??
en.wikipedia.org...
and
www.ncba.coop...

There are countless examples of SUCCESSFUL worker-run businesses. There are also historic examples, such as the Spanish Revolution, where Socialists/Anarchists SUCCESSFULLY took the reigns of power from government, the rich/owners and ran things themselves (at least until right-wing Fascists came in and destroyed their efforts). George Orwell wrote Homage To Catalonia in awe/honor of the worker/Anarchists/Socialist revolutionaries:
en.wikipedia.org...
and
en.wikipedia.org...

And there was also the Paris Commune:
en.wikipedia.org...


Worker ownership does NOT inhibit the product from being good/desirable, in fact, it can actually lead to a BETTER product when everyone is INVESTED in its success and in brainstorming on improvements. There is NOTHING to fear from worker-run Democracies except the threat to the few raking in the cream off the labors of the many.

And to your mythology that workers don't want to run things... that's entirely BECAUSE most jobs are top-down, honorless, toilsome, oppressive, poor paying, and un-Democratic. And if workers don't want to run a business, then fine, that's their choice! But you just neutralized your own argument with a circular logic... workers don't even KNOW of these concepts, they've never experienced them, but if they DID and they CHOSE to take control, we should support that and propagate such a reality. People don't prefer slavery... it's just all they know, so they plug in, turn on, and cop out... there are no obvious alternatives. The time has come to PUSH those alternatives and crush any illegitimate obstacle that gets in the way.

reply to post by ANOK


Oh yes I realize that. Captilism is not working for the average person. Something new needs to emerge I am all ready for it as long as the new system in place is better not worse. The new system needs to put people before money!

reply to post by NoHierarchy


Well said.

Yes the problem is we are not taught of the alternatives. Everything we learn is in order to see the capitalist economic system as being the only reality.

Workers think that capitalism is freedom, and socialism is government handouts.

If we were taught that we could create cooperative businesses, and that they are efficient, then people could at least make a choice. The more cooperatives there are the more people will see their benefits, and capitalism would eventually die. Given the choice most workers would rather work in a cooperative if they really knew the benefits to themselves and their communities.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by ANOK

 

Oh yes I realize that. Captilism is not working for the average person. Something new needs to emerge I am all ready for it as long as the new system in place is better not worse.

Good I wasn't sure, because a lot of people will say the same as you and then in the next breath will telling us capitalism is freedom and we just need to get rid of government. But we have the government we do because of capitalism. Capitalism requires government/state to protect it's capital interests.

The new system needs to put people before money!

Which is what socialism does. It puts the means of production in our hands so we can produce what we need, not produce crap to make someone else rich.

People think socialism is working for someone else's benefit, but capitalism makes you work for a 'wage' to make the private owner rich.

reply to post by ANOK


All of my companies are partnerships and everyone that works for the company is a partner. They put in either capital or sweat equity. I tried the public company route and it did not work well for me. There is a lot of good companies that are owned by the workers.

The system I would suggest would be based on one's income so those who are self employed can live just as good as people who aren't. All housing and car payments would not go over a certian percentage of a person's income. That is another huge problem is the cost of living is disportionate to people's income. People on disablity or social security live well below what the cost of living is as well.

I cant stay up and watch it because I work for a living. I am guessing though that about 3-4 AM there will be a roll out of the riot squad. They will be cracking heads and clearing the streets. I hope I am wrong but that is the SOP of the bankster class and their cop minions.

"They're talking about throwing a wrench in the United States financial system."



That's one big ass wrench.

My personal take on it is that they could've been more organized to let more mainstream Americans understand and possibly agree with all of their actions but I'm still proud that people are standing up to goliath like this.

Do it to 'em.
I'm trying post articles and info on all of this wherever I can; I live too far away, but have connections all over.

is the intent to be there when the market opens monday ?

if so, beginning on a saturday may turn out to be a huge mistake

if they aren't allowed tents, the over night temps dipping into the 40's will drive many people home.

they should have begun monday morning to get into the news

why saturday ?

Well obviously ere isn't a total media blackout.. Just saw the story on FOX News.

I think this is fantastic and I hope they will continue to protest as long as it takes.
Who is anonymous? just wondering, I've seen several references to this person before.

reply to post by grumpydaysleeper


I really don't like using Wiki as a source at all, but at least it will get you started on Anonymous.

Wiki Link

reply to post by ANOK


You don't think we could have a healthcare and bare essentials infrastructure that's off the capitalist grid while still being mostly capitalistic? I think we can and we should.

Capitalism should be for non-essentials. No one wants to get sick. If we have a not-for-profit nutrition shake avail. for those who would benefit from it, would that be so wrong? It would prob. taste like ass, and capitalism could continue as usual for entertainment/non-essential pleasures (aka going to TGI Friday's, heh). People would still pay money for non-essentials, like their Kanye West CDs.

There have been a couple of questions as to why Saturday as a start day.
I believe MOMENTUM would be the word of the day.
Many people may decide to go to their dead end jobs if it were on a weekday, but if you start on a weekend, the folks may figure "Why return to my dead end job on Monday if I am having fun here doing something truly productive".
Momentum can be as powerful as an engine, and every little bit counts.
Now let's hope the folks at these protests will be able to police themselves and stop any agitators in the crowd, as to not give the guys in black a reason to start swinging clubs.
And if the guys in black do get out of hand, let's hope the folks fight back and win.

Originally posted by OldCorp
I would have thought by now someone would have pointed out the fact that it's a Saturday...

Wouldn't this have been more effective on a weekday? Exactly what are they shutting down? And last question: How much you wanna bet that come Monday morning the police will have cleared the last of them out?

Could actually be a strategic move depending how you look at it.