Islam, Christanity and Judisam.....What is the difference?

Originally posted by _Ghostrider_
ur rite, christians havnt killied in tha name of g-d, the have killed in the name of christianity, the crusades, "well, if someone has already died for our sins, the we might as well make some wins (kill non-believers) and then ask for forgiveness, which we will get because we killed the non-believers

Educate yourself on the Crusades and what brought them about. Where were they fought. Why they were fought.

Mohammed was a Dastardly Liar and an immoral devil. The Son of Satan and a purveyor of death and destruction. Mohammed killed all those who would not submit to Allah. Christianity responded with the crusades.

Islam is a nation without borders 1.4 Billion strong and fundamentalist Extremist Islam is it's Military 140 million strong.

Originally posted by looking4clues

Originally posted by _Ghostrider_
ur rite, christians havnt killied in tha name of g-d, the have killed in the name of christianity, the crusades, "well, if someone has already died for our sins, the we might as well make some wins (kill non-believers) and then ask for forgiveness, which we will get because we killed the non-believers

Educate yourself on the Crusades and what brought them about. Where were they fought. Why they were fought.

Mohammed was a Dastardly Liar and an immoral devil. The Son of Satan and a purveyor of death and destruction. Mohammed killed all those who would not submit to Allah. Christianity responded with the crusades.

Islam is a nation without borders 1.4 Billion strong and fundamentalist Extremist Islam is it's Military 140 million strong.

Like I said, you made your point. So what should be done about this evil religion?

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Like I said, you made your point. So what should be done about this evil religion?

If I had the Answer I would include it. I recognize the problem. Ignoring it will not solve it.

Originally posted by looking4clues
Mohammed was a Dastardly Liar and an immoral devil. The Son of Satan and a purveyor of death and destruction. Mohammed killed all those who would not submit to Allah. Christianity responded with the crusades.
.

Christainity responded by............
Killing all those, Muslim and Jew who would not submit to the "love" of Jesus

And I thought there wasnt any difference


Its good to see you are keeping an open mind about this

[edit on 26-8-2004 by Amuk]

Originally posted by looking4clues

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Like I said, you made your point. So what should be done about this evil religion?

If I had the Answer I would include it. I recognize the problem. Ignoring it will not solve it.

Come on guy, you have the answer, admit it you would like to see a little more unbeliever killing AKA a new Crusade

Originally posted by mwm1331
Amuk Leveler, First I must say its nice to debate this with an athiest who isnt foaming at the mouth about the evils of religon.

First I must tell you I am not an Athiest, I know the soul lives on I am just not sure where it lives at. And I am glad you took my statement in the manner of a jest which was my intent. I have seen religion used a blanket to comfort and as a club to beat those who think differently. I have no problem with the former but I do with the latter

In reference to the Biblical command to kill all the men, women, children, beasts of the felds, burn the crops, and salt the earth,

It was more than a single incedent but my point was merely that the God of the Christians and Jews was JUST as savage as the God of the Muslims so taking a quote here and there to point out what evil horrible people they are can come back to bite you on the butt. You yourself have not done this but I have seen several others do it.

In reference to the difference between the Old and New Testament, well Amuk like myself I know you to be a man who loves this country, if anything it would seem that America is your religon,

I have never thought about it but you are kinda right the "IDEALS" of America are almost a religion to me not what we were or not what we are but what we CAN be.

But here we have a problem...

No I don't believe that Muslims or Jews are gong to hell,

Followed by..

In Christianity the only path to salvation is to believe that Jesus was the son of God and that he died to forgive your sins. Without that no amount of good deeds, charitable works, or righteousness will gain you entrance. Even if you die a martyr (to God not Jesus) but do not believe in Jesus you will still be denied entrance.

You cant have both thats a cop-out which one do you believe in? The Jews flatly deny Jesus and the Muslims think of him as a prophet neither think of him as God, nor does MOST of the rest of the world.

Finally Amuk the big question, do I believe the OT is the word of God? Well I believe its the word of God as dictated to imperfect assistants. Anyway I hope I have been clear and have awnsered your questions. Its been good to talk about this without too many people damning anyone to hell or saying that those with Religous beliefs are mentally inferior.

Believe it or not we are closer than you think on this one, I think all three along with most of the other religions are a lame attempt by man to discribre the undiscribably, to put a name and a face on something we can not hope to understand in this lifetime.

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Chistians have NEVER killed in the name of their god.

MANY claiming to be have.
.

[edit on 26/8/2004 by PublicGadfly]

Couldnt you say the same about the Muslim Fanitics? The Muslims I know are ashamed by their actions

muk I don't belev it is a copout. I make a difference between hell (which in my opinion no human will ever go to) Heaven (whch is the promise made by Jesus for havng faith) and simply dieing (none of the above) I dont belev that non chrstians will be punished for not having faith, but I dont believe they will be rewarded for ther deeds either. I am of the opinion that god is or has become rather laisse faire (spellng?) about life on earth. I dont think he cares whether or not you have a good job, die young or are happy, I think the only thing he cares about is your faith. While helping the poor is good without faith in jesus it does not matter. I guess what I am trying to say is that deeds, as actions are bound to earth while faith, being spiritual by nature is the provice of God.

I hope that I am wrong as there are many non-christians know and love who i hope to see in the next world, and I don't pretend to know Gods mind, but based on my readings of the bible and my meditations on the wordss of jesus as I have read them these are the conclusions have drawn.

leveler- while I agree tht the words of Jesus as we read them today were written by men and thus subject to inaccuracies, wht I meant is that the words he spoke were without mistake not that the verson of his words tht I have read are.

Also consider that maybe the reason Gods personalty seemed to change as society evolved is not because the message changed, but rather that societies capacity to understand them and pass them on changed.

Finally Amuk, yes there is evidence of great and terrible crimes being comitted in the OT by the isrealites on more than one occasion but all I can say is that those were different times, and I do not believe that the god of love I know would give those orders, However I lso know that I was not there and cannot judge his will by my conception of morality. I simply take it on faith that it was either a the work of a kng claiming to speak for him or that if it was his will that he had his reasons.
I too have been guilty of taking indvidual quotes of the Koran and using it show what I (probably mistakenly) barbaric nature of Islam, but in the "is islam a facist social structure" thread someone pointed out to me that they were both out of context (and yes I thought of the passages we have been discussing in the OT) and possibly mistranslated, so I have decided not to discuss Islamic beiefs untill I can get a reputable translation of the Islamic holy books and take the time to read them.

Originally posted by looking4clues

How am I disrespectful for doubting Gods existance?

Ask your imaginary friend to explain it to you.

What imaginary friend? I quit talking to people who arent there about the time I started grade school, I hear they have Medicine for it now I suggest you try some.....LOL

Are disrespectful for not believing in Allah?

I owe no respect to the Moon god or the False Prophet, Pedophile, Thief, Murderer Mohammed.

And I or they for that matter owe YOUR god respect for what reason? Let me guess because the bible says so and its the word of God right? Let me clue you in they think the same thing and what makes your brand better than theirs? But of course you cant answer that so you resort to name calling and trashing others beliefs

And how the hell do you know my mind and what I am after? Has sitting in Gods lap gave you ESP? Or does God, AKA the voices in your head, tell you these things
A Lack of denial accompanied by the guessing how I know, speaks in itself.

Again what the hell are you takling about? Do you know Ark? You sound a lot like him speaking in lame riddles and phrases to cover up the fact that you have NOTHING to say

If you are going to post in this thread how about joining the debate instead of just trying to insult and analize me
Which alledged Insult? The one where I say you will bring nothing new to the arguement? Or the One where I claim you will never understand until you undersatnd what faith is?

[edit on 26-8-2004 by looking4clues]

How about your very first post? You claim I have nothing new to add but all you bring to the debate is the same old tired prejudices against Jews and Muslims and anyone else that does not fit into your little brainwashed herd
But keep it up you are amusing the rest of us
Have a nice day

[edit on 26-8-2004 by Amuk]

Originally posted by mwm1331
I am of the opinion that god is or has become rather laisse faire (spellng?) about life on earth. I dont think he cares whether or not you have a good job, die young or are happy, I think the only thing he cares about is your faith. While helping the poor is good without faith in jesus it does not matter. I guess what I am trying to say is that deeds, as actions are bound to earth while faith, being spiritual by nature is the provice of God.

This is the major problem I have with the Bible and religion in general.

I have the pastors of several churches explain to me how a childmolester who believes in Jesus will go to heaven and good buddist will go to hell.

I do not believe this. As I mentioned in another thread there is a baby-raper that is the decon of a church across the river every few years he is arrested for childmolestation but he is 'good with God' so his place is assured in heaven while I on the other hand, who took his childeren in and feed and clothed them while the rest of the church damned them as liars and tried to ship them off to reform school and silince them at every turn, I am the devil incarnate and bound for hell because I dont believe in God the EXACT way they do.

I didnt believe it then and I dont believe it now if heaven is full of these people I dont want to go

Several things said in this topic got me thinking about the very nature of God and religion.

God speaking to humans and trying to explain the existance of everything is like a grown-up talking to a 3 year old kid and trying to explain quantum physics to him. It is impossible. The only thing you can do is to give guidance to this kid, tell them they should go to school, get education, learn basics of physics, then more advanced stuff,until one day when they have reached a certain level of awareness they finaly understand.
That is religion. Guidance to better life and learning, guidance on how to reach the actual goal, the understanding of something we cannot see or comprehend now because we are limited by this earthly existence.

All world's religions are only guidance, but men have turned it into dogma. Going to various schools became the actual final goal. Naturaly, if your only point in life is to go to school it becomes very important which school you go to, which one is better.... exactly what we see today in terms of religion.

Truly religious people, not blinded by this dogma, see the truth and accept all schools as means to an end, including those who do not belong to any specific school but have still reached the goal: they are good people, honest, open minded, ready to learn and accept, understand what this existence is all about.

Amuk keep in mind this is only my interpertaton, but I don't think the deacon you mentioned IS right with god. I dont think anyone who truly has faith in Jesus could do what he did. I don't know for sure and in the end whether he gets in our not is between him and God.
Also I must make the point that Faith in Jesus as your savior means that you
1)accept that jesus Christ is the son of god and that he died for your sins, also accept that he had to because you are flawed
2) you try to overcome those flaws with the help of your savior
3) you accept that you (and others) will mess up but that if you truly repent you will be forgiven.
Now this seems to be the part most people msinterpert, they seem to think that if you go to confession or ask for forgiveness you will be. and that is true, IF you TRULY repent, someone who claims to repent and then commits the same crime has not repented.
I guess what I'm am saying is if you dont change, then you did not feel that what you did was wrong and therfore can not be forgiven.
Christianity and faith in Jesus is not a license to hurt others and then ask forgiveness, god is not an overprotective mother, But it is a realisation that none of us are perfect and that we all need all the help we can get.

Originally posted by Amuk

What imaginary friend? I quit talking to people who arent there about the time I started grade school, I hear they have Medicine for it now I suggest you try some.....LOL

"Imaginary friend" those are your words.... they take on a new meaning when given back to you.

And I or they for that matter owe YOUR god respect for what reason? Let me guess because the bible says so and its the word of God right? Let me clue you in they think the same thing and what makes your brand better than theirs? But of course you cant answer that so you resort to name calling and trashing others beliefs

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." -Matthew 7-15

Again what the hell are you takling about? Do you know Ark? You sound a lot like him speaking in lame riddles and phrases to cover up the fact that you have NOTHING to say

??? Found this website 2 days ago... does that help your confusion?

How about your very first post? You claim I have nothing new to add but all you bring to the debate is the same old tired prejudices against Jews and Muslims and anyone else that does not fit into your little brainwashed herd
But keep it up you are amusing the rest of us
Have a nice day

Who is prejudice against Jews? Jews played a vital role in the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, they are Gods chosen people. I wish more of them would recognize Jesus as the Messiah! So please do not make things up and attribute them to me as a quote.

I am Amusing "us" who is "us"? Just curious.

The jews dont believe in Jesus so are just as bound for hell as the muslims according to your narrow minded dogma, whoops excuse me "the word of god"

Your speaking in riddles and BS phrases like "your words take on new meaning when sent back to you" means nothing but gibberish to me and your Bible quotes dont mean # to me either I can quote Penthouse Magazine but thaty dont mean I believe the stories in them. Face it you HAVE NO arguement other than to regurgatate the same old BS over and over again like a broken record.


You have repeatedly dodged the question because you HAVE NO answer for it

WHAT MAKES YOUR GOD SPECIAL?

WHY IS HE ANY MORE REAL THAN ALLAH?

If you can take the time to answer these questions with something other than a lame attempt to sound wise we might have more to talk about.

I doubt you can

Sorry mwm1331

Had to answer one of the mouthfoamers

I just have a real hard time buying the Jesus is the ONLY way bit. That alone condems BILLIONS of people to hell which not all are murderers and rapists. It would be like being in a lifeboat and saying "I am not gonna let the women or childern in or am I gonna let the good people in the ONLY critera I am gonna use is who grovels the best."

I am sorry it is the way I interpert it

I dont hold a persons religion against them, whatever helps you make it through the day, I just dont like being condemed for my beliefs or watch others being condemed for theirs

[edit on 26-8-2004 by Amuk]

Paperclip

As I grow older my mind turns more toward these things also

And I tend to agree with you, I think ALL roads lead heaven in a manner of speaking

Nothing to be sorry about Amuk its simply your opinion and either one of us or both could be wrong (can't help thinking of south park the movie here "sorry the right awnser was the mormons")
Keep in mind though that I can't find any biblical basis for the concept of hell, It does say that lucifer will be cast into the lake of fire but it does not mention any penalty for not believing.
Keep in Mind the scriptures don't say "believe in me or you will go to hell" they say "Believe in me and you will receve everlastng life" I always took that to mean that belivers go to heaven and non-believers just die (or perhaps they are reincarnated to try again who knows?)
The truth is there is no imperical evdence to say that any religon is either right or more right than another its a matter of faith. That being sad all religons belev they have the "one true way" and for all we know one of them might even be right. What do know is that I choose to have faith in jesus ad that is good enough for me.

Originally posted by Amuk
WHAT MAKES YOUR GOD SPECIAL?

WHY IS HE ANY MORE REAL THAN ALLAH?

Faith.

Originally posted by looking4clues

Originally posted by Amuk
WHAT MAKES YOUR GOD SPECIAL?

WHY IS HE ANY MORE REAL THAN ALLAH?

Faith.

They have Faith too why is yours any different?

Try again

[edit on 26-8-2004 by Amuk]

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by looking4clues

Originally posted by Amuk
WHAT MAKES YOUR GOD SPECIAL?

WHY IS HE ANY MORE REAL THAN ALLAH?

Faith.

They have Faith too

Try again

Perhaps they do... but you do not, thus you cannot understand.

Thats why you remain in an unbroken circular path.