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Islam, Christanity and Judisam.....What is the difference?

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posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 02:40 PM
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Although I don't believe in the historical man, I see nothing in the message or most elements of the surrounding myth that are actually damaging or harmful. In fact, I believe that there is much written in the New Testament that can actually enhance a person's spirituality.


Well, without a doubt, the Church has/still does not admit to the fact that they had exploited early followers. The dark ages are a prime example.

Yes, true, the Christian mythology, in context, can enhance ones spiritual spectrum,but in dogma, it does not. We still have a billion folk who believe that Jesus died for thier sins and will return. They have forgoten the Christos within.

Deep




posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Well, without a doubt, the Church has/still does not admit to the fact that they had exploited early followers. The dark ages are a prime example.


I don't think that is going to happen for a long, long time - if ever. If it is going to occur, it has to be a very gradual process.

But if you look at Christianity in historical context you may find places where it has evolved in leaps and bounds in recent times. Remember we are talking about millenia here and because we live on this planet for only a short time, we sometimes aren't aware of how things have slowly developed. Although 100 years may be a lifetime and more to us, to a religion it is a blinking of the eye.

I agree with you totally that there are many who seem to have forgotten the Christ Within but it's not all doom and gloom - there are probably more now who are searching and finding him than ever before (or certainly since after the Dark Ages). Prior to this point in history, we wouldn't have even dared looking for fear of the Church.

Returning to the thread subject, I believe that this is the major difference between Christianity and Islam. Christianity started evolving and adapting once the Italian Renaissance started spreading across Europe. People became more educated spiritually and relied less on the Church for the whole message. Whereas the old Christian authorites chose to make fear their weapon to force people into following them, they now actually have to reverse that strategy and make the religion appealing. And isn't that what religion should be? In my opinion, a man should search for his god because he chooses to do so - not because he is forced to. I'd rather have the carrot than the stick to help me get started out.

Unfortunately the Middle East has had no such rennaissance and therefore Islam remains in a state of almost stagnancy in some places. Hopefully there will be a way out for them too. The people of some hardline Islamic nations are basically living in exactly the same state of religious control as Christians used to live in centuries ago. The problem is that the authorities who control that religion have the advantage of being able to look back at Christianity and recognising where the Church failed in maintaining it's grip on power. They're going to therefore be harder to shift as they can learn by old mistakes.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 03:22 PM
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never mind all that.. i truly believe in what i see..... however.. there is only one true version on this subject........life begins in only one form......
there is only one guarantee on this subject.....
on way or another we are all going to find out if god/jesus/mary/adam/eve/all exisited or was it all just another man made novel..
but rest assured when we do find out .....who ever is right or wrong in what they have believed in will they pay for what they believed in all this time or will they be honoured???



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Amadeus
Hi Amuk:

As far as the so-called (and much touted) "sinlessness" of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean (you know, the Daviddic pretender who was executed for armed sedition against Rome (see Luke chapter 22:18ff) by crucifixion (a torture reseerved especially for political malefactors) during the reign of the divine Emperor Tiberius), here are a couple of questions for you:

l. If he was "sinless", why was he "baptised in the Jordan by R. Yohanon bar Zechariah specifically for the remission of sins"?

2. Why when "the rich young ruler" came up to him saying, "Good Rabbi, what must I do to be worthy of the Life?" his immediate response according to the gospels was: "Good? Why do you call me Good? There is only One who is Good."

Seems the man, at least according to the perspective of some of the primitive gospel material, was quite aware of his own weakness as a sinner....

Just a couple of thoughts off the top of my head...



Yes, humility is a difficult concept. For Amuk's consideration:

Mat 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the River Jordan to John, to be baptized by him.
Mat 3:14 But John would have hindered him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and you come to me?"
Mat 3:15 But Jesus, answering, said to him, Allow it now, for this is the fitting way for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he allowed him.
Mat 3:16 Jesus, when he was baptized, went up directly from the water: and behold, the heavens were opened to him. He saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming on him.
Mat 3:17 Behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."

Luk 3:21 Now it happened, when all the people were baptized, Jesus also had been baptized, and was praying. The sky was opened,
Luk 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily form as a dove on him; and a voice came out of the sky, saying "You are my beloved Son. In you I am well pleased."

Joh 1:24 The ones who had been sent were from the Pharisees.
Joh 1:25 They asked him, "Why then do you baptize, if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the prophet?"
Joh 1:26 John answered them, "I baptize in water, but among you stands one whom you don't know.
Joh 1:27 He is the one who comes after me, who is preferred before me, whose sandal strap I'm not worthy to loosen."
Joh 1:28 These things were done in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
Joh 1:29 The next day, he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Joh 1:30 This is he of whom I said, 'After me comes a man who is preferred before me, for he was before me.'
Joh 1:31 I didn't know him, but for this reason I came baptizing in water: that he would be revealed to Israel."
Joh 1:32 John testified, saying, "I have seen the Spirit descending like a dove out of heaven, and it remained on him.
Joh 1:33 I didn't recognize him, but he who sent me to baptize in water, he said to me, 'On whomever you will see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'
Joh 1:34 I have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God."
Joh 1:35 Again, the next day, John was standing with two of his disciples,
Joh 1:36 and he looked at Jesus as he walked, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God!"

Mar 1:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, 'Make ready the way of the Lord! Make his paths straight!' "
Mar 1:4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching the baptism of repentance for forgiveness of sins.
Mar 1:5 All the country of Judea and all those of Jerusalem went out to him. They were baptized by him in the Jordan river, confessing their sins.
Mar 1:6 John was clothed with camel's hair and a leather belt around his waist. He ate locusts and wild honey.
Mar 1:7 He preached, saying, "After me comes he who is mightier than I, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and loosen.
Mar 1:8 I baptized you in water, but he will baptize you in the Holy Spirit."
Mar 1:9 It happened in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
Mar 1:10 Immediately coming up from the water, he saw the heavens parting, and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.
Mar 1:11 A voice came out of the sky, "You are my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

- - -
Mat 19:16 Behold, one came to him and said, "Good teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
Mat 19:17 He said to him, Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He said to him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, You shall not murder.' 'You shall not commit adultery.' 'You shall not steal.' 'You shall not offer false testimony.
Mat 19:19 Honor your father and mother.' And, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 19:20 The young man said to him, "All these things I have observed from my youth. What do I still lack?"
Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sad, for he was one who had great possessions.

Mar 10:17 As he was going out into the way, one ran to him, knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"
Mar 10:18 Jesus said to him, Why do you call me good? No one is good except one-God.
Mar 10:19 You know the commandments: 'Do not murder,' 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not give false testimony,' 'Do not defraud,' 'Honor your father and mother.
Mar 10:20 He said to him, "Teacher, I have observed all these things from my youth."
Mar 10:21 Jesus looking at him loved him, and said to him, One thing you lack. Go, sell whatever you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me, taking up the cross.
Mar 10:22 But his face fell at that saying, and he went away sorrowful, for he was one who had great possessions.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:00 PM
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Oh hooray.
Somebody who can cut and paste from the Bible

How original, thought provoking and totally closed to argument that is.

Not.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:12 PM
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And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they nay see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.


How about this one?

Jesus says that he delibertly decieves so that most wont understand and be saved



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
By the way - "Looking4Clues"? You aren't looking for clues at all. You are blind.

Guess what year it is right now? I'll help help ya... 2004. I am not interested in your justification of the present based on the failures of past. I cannot sit and give you any respect when you cite the crusades other multi centuries past catastrophes. You have a point about Adolph Hitler... but let it be known... Christians defeated Adolph Hitler. Islam has issues TODAY, and I am not going to ignore it. I am holding Islam responsible to solve the Issues... but they will not because "they're brothers." Even today the Teaching in Islam is that groups like "Hamas, Islamic Jihad" are their brothers. They condone it!

It really seems like most you people who are on this board are seeking an appeasment policy, similar to the original response to Adolph Hitler. Why are you desperately trying to stop anyone from making waves?



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu
Yeah, and the Bible says I should shoot doctors, take multiple wives, and kill gays. And Judaism says I have to push buildings down on residents.


And when Christianity see those instuctions brought to life, It is stopped!

Islam cannot say the same! They condone it.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by looking4clues

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Yeah, and the Bible says I should shoot doctors, take multiple wives, and kill gays. And Judaism says I have to push buildings down on residents.


And when Christianity see those instuctions brought to life, It is stopped!

Islam cannot say the same! They condone it.



So are you saying the teachings in the Bible are wrong?



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:47 PM
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Islam cannot say the same! They condone it.


What in the world are you talking about.

Out of respect for fellow Muslim members, could you tone down your hatred, you're obvioulsy using this thread to spout your ignorance to an entire group of people, based on the acts of a few fanatics.

Most of what we see today is socio-political wars, not revolving around coverting the entire world.

Deep



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
Oh hooray.
Somebody who can cut and paste from the Bible

How original, thought provoking and totally closed to argument that is.

Not.


Cut and paste yes- no need to argue when a point stands or falls on its own.

Could have used a URL I suppose, but then the point would still be the same.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by looking4clues

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Yeah, and the Bible says I should shoot doctors, take multiple wives, and kill gays. And Judaism says I have to push buildings down on residents.


And when Christianity see those instuctions brought to life, It is stopped!

Islam cannot say the same! They condone it.



So are you saying the teachings in the Bible are wrong?


No I am stating that Christianity has evolved. Unlike Islam.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep



Islam cannot say the same! They condone it.


What in the world are you talking about.

Out of respect for fellow Muslim members, could you tone down your hatred, you're obvioulsy using this thread to spout your ignorance to an entire group of people, based on the acts of a few fanatics.

Most of what we see today is socio-political wars, not revolving around coverting the entire world.

Deep


LMAO!!! a few fanatics.... try 10% of Islam! 140 Million people.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by looking4clues

And when Christianity see those instuctions brought to life, It is stopped!

Islam cannot say the same! They condone it.




So are you saying the teachings in the Bible are wrong?
No I am stating that Christianity has evolved. Unlike Islam.


Then those teachings are right?

We are talking about the eternal,infallable word of God right?

either the teachings are as valid today as then OR all that talk about the Bible being the infalable word of God is BS

You cant have it both ways can you?

[edit on 27-8-2004 by Amuk]



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they nay see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.


How about this one?

Jesus says that he delibertly decieves so that most wont understand and be saved


Not to look up the quote I say that what Jesus is trrying to get across is simple:
'those that will not see (by their own choice) will not understand'

Jesus was the ultimate revolutionary, he believed totally in free will. If you (as an example only) choose to befubble or twist or change what is the truth then you will be denied the truth.

If you (again, for the sake of example) are led astray then those that led you will be denied life (everlasting).

You (example only) are to seek as a child seeks. For simple and unvarnished truths. This is why the truth is so difficult for adults to comprehend. We tend to want to weigh all things when in reality

I'll leave off the "cut and paste" because Leveller and probably some others may be offened and just recite a few things I believe are truths.

Don't cheat-
To a child this has full meaning. to an adult we sue and counter-sue each other by the thousands trying to decifer what cheat means.

give the government what is its due- (render unto Ceasar)
A child has no problem understanding taxes. Adults have invented thousands of arguments as to why a tax shouldn't be collected from them.

military service-
Again, if this is a requirement of law a child understands fully that they either serve or leave. Adults, as witnessed in a plethora of threads on ATS, have a hard time grasping the concept of of what this requirement means.

learn- (blessed are they that hunger - - )
Again, children love to learn. They seek what is sound and will discard that which is not. Adults- well let's see, The Turner Diarys, How to make bombs, Hacking 101, How to murder your wife

As a child.
Simple as it sounds it is rather boring and difficult.

[edit on 27/8/2004 by PublicGadfly]



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by looking4clues

Originally posted by Leveller
By the way - "Looking4Clues"? You aren't looking for clues at all. You are blind.

Guess what year it is right now? I'll help help ya... 2004. I am not interested in your justification of the present based on the failures of past.


I never mentioned Hitler.

So I guess you wouldn't be interested in the Christian Serb massacre of Muslims at Srebrenica in Bosnia in 1995? After all, it's a failure of the past isn't it? Seven thousand unarmed civilians rounded up, taken to a football stadium and executed with machine guns.

And to discard history, when our whole social system, our very essence, is based on the past, is total and utter ignorance. See, you are the reason why there are fanatics on "thier side" too. Most of us could live quite happily side by side, but people like you make all of us targets.

In an ideal world, I'd like to see all of you fanatics on both sides, rounded up and sent to a desert island where you can fight it out amongst yourselves without hurting the rest of us.

You my friend, are the worst kind of zealot. I only hope that you will wake up one day before it's too late.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 06:27 PM
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looking4clues, I am having difficulties with understanding what the hell are you talking about.

Are you talking about Qur'an? Hadith? Sharia laws? Spiritual aspect of Islam or institutionalised religion? Are you talking about reformed Islam in Indonesia? Malasia? Or the one in Turkey or Bosnia? Are you talking about Sunni or Shiite Muslims? Are you aware of the existence of Sufi?
Why are you ingnoring posts that debunk your "evidence"?
What exactly are you trying to prove? Fallacy of religion? Social structures? Tribal laws? Goverments? Human nature maybe?

Your posts are confusing indeed. You start to talk about one thing, but present evidence for something totaly different.




posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by looking4clues

And when Christianity see those instuctions brought to life, It is stopped!

Islam cannot say the same! They condone it.




So are you saying the teachings in the Bible are wrong?
No I am stating that Christianity has evolved. Unlike Islam.


Then those teachings are right?

We are talking about the eternal,infallable word of God right?

either the teachings are as valid today as then OR all that talk about the Bible being the infalable word of God is BS

You cant have it both ways can you?

[edit on 27-8-2004 by Amuk]


The Bible is written by many different people. It can be interpreted many ways. But not all of the bible is based on the words of Jesus Christ. It is put together as a collection of historical documents. What you cannot seem to comprehend is Jesus is not mentioned anywhere in the Old Testament, gospels of Matthew Mark Luke and John are at the core of Christianity, without the Old testament the past would be ignored and forgotten. Can you deny the value of historical record?

Jesus is the messiah and the embodiment of God on Earth.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by paperclip
looking4clues, I am having difficulties with understanding what the hell are you talking about.

Are you talking about Qur'an? Hadith? Sharia laws? Spiritual aspect of Islam or institutionalised religion? Are you talking about reformed Islam in Indonesia? Malasia? Or the one in Turkey or Bosnia? Are you talking about Sunni or Shiite Muslims? Are you aware of the existence of Sufi?
Why are you ingnoring posts that debunk your "evidence"?
What exactly are you trying to prove? Fallacy of religion? Social structures? Tribal laws? Goverments? Human nature maybe?

Your posts are confusing indeed. You start to talk about one thing, but present evidence for something totaly different.



I don't know, which sect of Islame will provide your excuse?



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 06:53 PM
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Jesus was the ultimate revolutionary, he believed totally in free will. If you (as an example only) choose to befubble or twist or change what is the truth then you will be denied the truth.


No. Subjectivly, yes, he was the ultimate revolutionary. History dictates otherwise.

Looking4clues,

Paperclip is right, you have ignored posts that debunk your hatred of Islam. If you want to bash Islam, go somewhere else, not here.

Deep




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