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Autopsy: Woman died from shot fired by deputy

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posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree. I will say as a final note, that drug "use" is a medical condition, not so much a crime (unless it's drug DEALING). I've dealt with family members having this issue and prison or jail does_not help, in fact it makes it worse. Believe there is some Godly "justice" happening all you want, but when you boil down to it, these people have a serious addiction that requires medical attention.

If only we'd stop putting these "criminal" drug users in prison. Instead they should be put into serious rehab institutions. We should give them the medical help they need rather than putting them behind bars. Imagine how much prison space we would save...tax dollars we would put to good use, rather than locking them up in a system that only makes them unable to contribute to society in a productive way... Well, one can dream. It will never happen so long as we have cops busting these "criminals" and not the ones who actually commit murders and other violent crimes on a daily basis.
edit on 17-9-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:12 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


I see people saying “well they were only small time criminals, they didn’t deserve to die”.
If this person had pulled out a gun and shot the cop in the foot, would you still feel the same way?

The reality is that when you attempt to flee from an officer, and you hit them with your car, even on accident, you're no longer a “small time criminal”, you’re now a felon who has committed attempted homicide on a police officer with a deadly weapon. Yes! Cars are considered a deadly weapon, the same as a gun.

Whenever you resist arrest, even for a small crime, you are committing a bigger crime simply by your resistance, and are no longer only guilty of that small crime!

If you have a problem with why the officer is arresting you, like every single person that gets arrested does (there are no guilty people in prison), then you take that up in the court, not by resisting the officer. You’ll lose every time by resistance because the law states that an officer, who BELIEVES that he is performing his duty (he does not even have to be RIGHT, only BELIEVE he is right) has the ability to effect the arrest using the next higher level of force then the person who is resisting them.

Oh…BTW...
Police don’t shoot out tires to stop cars, they draw their weapons to use deadly force. That shooting at tires crap only goes on in movies. Shooting out tires does not equal stopping a car as the Op stated; shooting out tires actually equals a good chance of getting an innocent bystander killed either via a ricochet or lost control of the car. If that happens, the cop is actually in trouble, where he would not be if he shot at the person rather then the car (even if he hits something else by accident).

This is the same reason that police do not train to shoot to wound, but rather to hit center mass. To prevent a bullet from either exiting the body with enough force left in it to hit someone else, or by targeting a smaller body part, completely missing the target, and hitting the wrong person.

Too much of the logic I see in this thread is based on TV, and not enough on reality.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


edit on 9/17/2011 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


The problem Blanca is its common in the US that police are using their powers in the wrong way. Its becoming more of an epidemic,to be honest. Not as bad as in Mexico,but even if you do a search back to 1900's,you will find LEO's had a knack for being dishonest,or being on the take.Hell,they hold a lot of power,that you will agree with. There is also the "code of silence","gang in blue" "coverup "mentality.. Seriously,you care to disprove it? I can give you years worth of examples. I wont call an officer,unless its the last resort,and I have friends on the force.


Okey dokey. So, here is where I got my thoughts from. You say here, you won't call an officer "unless it's a last resort." Why is that? You also talk about the codes, and the coverup mentality.For a person who says during all of this, "and I have friends on the force."

You must no some bad rear end coppers that you won't even call who you claim are your "friends on the force."

I don't know about you, but if your friends know all of this, and you won't even call them in a situation you might be going through, well then........



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by PhysicsAdept
 


Somewhat misleading...

Police Officers are prohibited, when dealing with vehicles while we are on foot, from intentionally placing ourselves into the path of the vehicle. SCOTUS has ruled that its an escalation of the situation (just like we cant establish a road block for a pursuit without having some type of exit path for the oncoming vehicles.

In this case, it occured so quickly that the foot was snagged. At that point, its irrelevant on the past criminal history deal. Its is an assault (different states will use different terminology, but its essentially the same.

In lamens terms the definition of assault on emergency personnel is "any unwanted physical contact". The use of deadly force, again per SCOTUS, is based on totality of circumstances - IE What was the officer seeing / perceiving at the exact moment use of force occured. Hindisght 20/20 is not permissable to review a use of force (theres more to it, but you get the idea).



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:38 AM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


How is it justified? That's ridiculous? The car ran over his foot, yeah, but it was already on its way. It wasn't turning around to run him down, he just shot out of anger. He killed someone because they accidentally ran over his foot trying to escape.

Not justified.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:40 AM
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reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
 


Ok, suppose you are a deputy.

This just happened to you. No hindsight, what do you do in the moment?

And, the vehicle was not stopping, even though you had indicated they should.

edit on 17-9-2011 by Blanca Rose because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:42 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Doesn't matter, he wasn't in any further danger.
I'm so tired of people taking up for cops who murder people because of some b.s. procedure that no one but cops know about that allows other people to justify their murdering of civilians.

Cops nowadays are poorly trained and over indoctrinated. They are mostly under educated and have a lower iq.
If you really want to risk your life, show a cop you are smarter than them in any situation.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


...
Are you serious?
I dont pull my gun and fire wildly at a car! I would call it in, I would get in my car and pursue and then charge them with assaulting an officer, assault with a deadly weapon. I wouldn't have fired off at the car.

First if there is a passenger, they didnt make any decision to drive. What if there had been a kid in the back seat? What if he had missed? What if he murdered a woman because she was scared and accidentally drove over his foot? Oh wait, he did do that last one.

I can tell you, with a hundred percent fact, the gun is the last thing I'd do.
Most people, even that carry them all the time are very reluctant to pull them unless the absolutely have to. Cops on the other hand will shoot you down in a heartbeat.
edit on 17-9-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Doesn't matter, he wasn't in any further danger.
I'm so tired of people taking up for cops who murder people because of some b.s. procedure that no one but cops know about that allows other people to justify their murdering of civilians.

Cops nowadays are poorly trained and over indoctrinated. They are mostly under educated and have a lower iq.
If you really want to risk your life, show a cop you are smarter than them in any situation.


Your response, which is based on a lack of knowledge on the law, is also part of the issue. I know you want to blame all cops all the time for all things, but it doesnt work that way. When people arent familiar with the law, as you are in this case, and you scream about some perceived injustice, you arent showing the police, or anyone else for that matter, that you are intelligent.

The danger was not over, and the deputy was within the law (as the article reads) for the use of deadly force. If you don't care for that you are certainly entitled to your opinion, however the US supreme Court doesn't agree with your opinion.

Start with Tennesse Vs. Gardner (US Supreme Court ruling).
Then check all rulings dealing with an Officers use of deadly force on a person who is fleeing.
Then check on how the 4th Amendment applies to the officers actions.
Brush up on Supreme Court rulings that cover a persons use of deadly force when protecting ones self or another party.

When you get around to it, let me know and ill give you some more info to research that will hopefully get you to understand how this all works, and hopefully prevent you from going on a rant about a topic that you are not even close to being correct on.

If your just giving us your opininon, then kindly disregard my info and feel free to rant away.
edit on 17-9-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
[

Doesn't matter, he wasn't in any further danger.


Easy for you to say, not being there, huh?
I

'm so tired of people taking up for cops who murder people because of some b.s. procedure that no one but cops know about that allows other people to justify their murdering of civilians.


Give me an example, that shows your cause against the thousands of man hours worked every day by law enforcement around this country. What percentage of crap do you think you will come up with to further your thoughts on this? Show me how many cops murder people each day, versus, say ordinary people? Which percentage do you think will prevail?


Cops nowadays are poorly trained and over indoctrinated. They are mostly under educated and have a lower iq.


PROVE THIS!


If you really want to risk your life, show a cop you are smarter than them in any situation.


Oh, you're not shy. Surely you can come up with an example or two here!
edit on 17-9-2011 by Blanca Rose because: quote



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


...
Are you serious?
I dont pull my gun and fire wildly at a car! I would call it in, I would get in my car and pursue and then charge them with assaulting an officer, assault with a deadly weapon. I wouldn't have fired off at the car.

First if there is a passenger, they didnt make any decision to drive. What if there had been a kid in the back seat? What if he had missed? What if he murdered a woman because she was scared and accidentally drove over his foot? Oh wait, he did do that last one.

I can tell you, with a hundred percent fact, the gun is the last thing I'd do.
Most people, even that carry them all the time are very reluctant to pull them unless the absolutely have to. Cops on the other hand will shoot you down in a heartbeat.
edit on 17-9-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)


Oh, goodness, do you read much before a reply? I stated a case here, where I live in Arizona, where a police officer shot a woman with a child in the back seat, and she didn't even run over his foot. She had her car aimed at him, and she accelerated. He shot and killerd her, and was not found guilty.

He was deemed within his rights to do so.

All these people in this article had to do, was stop. There would have been no death, or injury to the officer involved.

Why can't you get in your noodle? If they were doing nothing wrong, why not stop?

If a person is doing nothing wrong, there is no justifiable reason for them not to stop now, is there?

They didn't stop, because there was a person in the car with a warrant, and the vehicle was stolen. Why are you defending these people?
edit on 17-9-2011 by Blanca Rose because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:00 AM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


Seriously? I can flood this thread for hours with instance of how cops have stopped serving people as they are supposed to and are using tasers and guns way more than ever before and when it is totally unnecessary.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


I never said she didn't do anything wrong.
I just don't think she had to die for it, that's what cops can't seem to remember. There are other options.
He was in no danger, he shot her because she accidentally ran over his foot.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I disagree. At least from what I have read, she ran over his foot driving away, he was in no further danger.
You're a cop (at least have said to be before I believe) so of course you will defend them til the end (you have defended cases where cops were much more clearly in the wrong) and I think that is a big part of what is wrong with cops too.

I'm just so tired of this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.king5.com...

en.wikipedia.org... (this murdering cop got the minimum sentence, yeah, 2 years for murder.

www.nydailynews.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.nbcphiladelphia.com...
www.youtube.com...
edit on 17-9-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


Seriously? I can flood this thread for hours with instance of how cops have stopped serving people as they are supposed to and are using tasers and guns way more than ever before and when it is totally unnecessary.


So, you would rather see them use a gun instead?

This is not what I asked you for, anyway.

Go back and re-read what I asked you, because you seem to omit details to suite your whim.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


I never said she didn't do anything wrong.
I just don't think she had to die for it, that's what cops can't seem to remember. There are other options.
He was in no danger, he shot her because she accidentally ran over his foot.


But, you are not walking a mile in another man's shoes, either. You are only crying, "bad cop."



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

I disagree. At least from what I have read, she ran over his foot driving away, he was in no further danger.
You're a cop (at least have said to be before I believe) so of course you will defend them til the end (you have defended cases where cops were much more clearly in the wrong) and I think that is a big part of what is wrong with cops too.


You can disagree all ya want to. This guy, being the deputy was within his rights.

Belch about it all you want to on ATS, but as I told somebody else earlier, if you don't like the laws, you are barkin up the wrong tree. Take it higher up.

Or is it easier to say what you think anonymously on ATS,

I gotta say, I am sick and tire of you whiners, who bring up videos of tazer incidents, moaning about injustices while doing nothing about it.

If you don't like things the way they are, do somthing besides sit behind a screen and moan. Take your evidence up to a higher level!

And good luck with that. I am sure that you will get lots of signatures based on your evidence from this site!
edit on 17-9-2011 by Blanca Rose because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:18 AM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


I think, if it should only be justified for a cop to use deadly force if it would be justified for a civilian. If a civilian could say self defense then so could a cop.

What would happen if someone ran over your foot and you shot them to death? Would they let it fly? Would it be justified? Why doesn't common sense apply when it comes to cops? We all know he wasn't in anymore danger but we can get him off with a technicality.
It's b.s.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


No because I don't give a damn about this cop and his flattened shoes. I care that a woman was murdered because the cops foot got smashed.

This person is gone for good. Nothing else for her. People just don't value life like they should anymore.
edit on 17-9-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:24 AM
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reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
 


As stated before, and questioned to you again, do you read?

I gave my story about my foot being run over earlier in the thread.





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