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Communism Reborn (Communitarian Third Way Makes Debut)

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posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 09:54 PM
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This is something I've been following in the "academic" community for almost a year now, but it's finally starting to make its way into the mass media.. and.. I don't like it (very NWO).

It's call The Third Way, or Communitarianism, although IMHO it's just a fancy word for Communism. It's starting to get more press coverage in the mainline media:

There's an article on the Mises blog:

www.mises.org...

and also on CNN:

www.cnn.com...

I don't think the Mises blog has really grasped the full severity of the Third Way, and the Mises blog is incorrect in crediting Tony Blair w/ "inventing" the Third Way.. the biggest (and earliest) proponent is a war-mongering, fear-mongering Israeli fascist named Amitai Etzioni:

www.amitai-notes.com...
www.amitaietzioni.org...
www.gwu.edu...
www.gwu.edu...

If you ever hear someone on the mass media starting to talk about The Third Way, just know this:

Third Way == Communism

If you ever hear someone on the mass media trying to sugar-coat Communitarians, just know this:

Communitarianism == Communism

Evil evil stuff.. avoid it like the plague..




posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 12:25 AM
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It's a bit hysterical to consider it "evil." If Tony Blair starts making moves on behalf of the Labour party to ban all opposition, and do away with liberal democratic processes, then you might have a case. This is hardly New World Order stuff (where's the conspiracy?). All it is is a shift by the labour left towards an acceptance of free market economics. The only difference between the US Republican "free market" economy and this "Third Way" is that the latter favours socially responsible regulation and enterprise, rather than corporate welfare. It's left-leaning, but hardly communist.

What a joy it is to not live in the US. We've been hearing about Blair's "Third Way" for years. During the eighties, Australia had what you might as well call a Third Way government.





[edit on 25/8/04 by Grimnebulin]



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 02:32 AM
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These guys have some ideas on why it's evil.. I'll comment more tomorrow:

nord.twu.net...



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 06:54 AM
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communism is bad, plain and simple

changing the name doesn't make it better

and i bet nobody can sit behind their computer and defend it!



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by mongoose

the biggest (and earliest) proponent is a war-mongering, fear-mongering Israeli fascist named Amitai Etzioni

What On Earth Is Communitarianism? by Alan Whitehead, Nov 1997.

Third Way == Communism


Uhm, how?


from here
Communitarianism balances individual rights guaranteed under U.S. Constitutional Law against global Marxist ideology. [..]For them, nationalism is a barrier to globalism [...]Part of their agenda is to disarm Americans, and train U.S. cops in Zionist peacekeeping.


How can this site say that this third way looks to uphold the const. and then say it looks to revoke the right to bear arms? and what in the world is zionist peacekeeping supposed to be and why would cops in the US be doing it?


from here
Third Way is a political party based in Britain which advocates a practical decentralisation of power through constitutional reform and the creation of a society in which wealth is more equitably distributed.
A party rather different from the rest, Third Way combines democratic socio-economic reform and inclusive nationalism with co-operative internationalism and ecological awareness; supporting the right to genuine self-determination for peoples throughout the world. The resultant synthesis, still evolving, offers an alternative approach to politics


Ok, aso the Third Way is a specific party in the UK. The only vaguely communist-ish bit was the 'redistribution of wealth' part.

moving on



lets look here
Modern-day communitarianism began in the upper reaches of Anglo-American academia in the form of a critical reaction to John Rawls landmark 1971 book A Theory of Justice.[1] Drawing primarily upon the insights of Aristotle and Hegel, political philosophers such as Alasdair MacIntyre, Michael Sandel, Charles Taylor and Michael Walzer disputed Rawls assumption that the principal task of government is to secure and distribute fairly the liberties and economic resources individuals need to lead freely chosen lives. These critics of liberal theory never did identify themselves with the communitarian movement (the communitarian label was pinned on them by others, usually critics)[2], much less offer a grand communitarian theory as a systematic alternative to liberalism. Nonetheless, certain core arguments meant to contrast with liberalisms devaluation of community recur in the works of the four theorists named above,[3] and for purposes of clarity one can distinguish between claims of three sorts: methodological claims about the importance of tradition and social context for moral and political reasoning, ontological or metaphysical claims about the social nature of the self, and normative claims about the value of community


And in short, that all source of Knowledge, the wikipedia says

Communitarianism
The communitarian philosophy places a high value on the good of the collective, which is seen as the best way to achieve the good of the individual.


So looks like the communist allusion is rather thin, at least so far.

What is it you are saying makes it 'communist', and what do you take communist as meaning?

Humoursly enough, the wikipedia entry is a 'stub', meaning it neds to be expanded. Guess no one knows wtf its all about.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 10:41 PM
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to nydgen:

what part of "Communism" don't you get? You're talking about how communitarians are into "redistributing wealth", and into promoting the good of the collective over the individual, etc. uuuhhhh... last time I checked, that was called Communism..



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by Grimnebulin
It's a bit hysterical to consider it "evil."


A little strong but agreeable.

This "third way" stuff is well, ""so what""

From the CNN story isn't this what we want our electors to do? We want them to work in our best interests. I would simply love to see one session of congress conclude where the participants compromised!

As things are now its either this or that and we now have an ultra high deficit, a war at the far end of the earth, discord at home, corporate thieves trying to get away with larceny, gang violence, - - - the list is long.

If legislators agreeing to set aside political differences for the good of the nation is the "third way" then I say ALRIGHT!

I do not see this as any type of communism or socialism (American definition) or fascism.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard
communism is bad, plain and simple

changing the name doesn't make it better

and i bet nobody can sit behind their computer and defend it!


UK Wizard has got a point.
I cant see a birth of Communism again after the Cold War



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard
communism is bad, plain and simple

changing the name doesn't make it better

and i bet nobody can sit behind their computer and defend it!


Why do you say communism is bad?

I am not trying to defend communism, only trying to understand what is that thing you call "communism".

If I am going to defend something, I do not sit behind the computer, is difficult to type that way.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 07:18 AM
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I dont know about condoning Marxism-Leninsim (bullsht Stalinist construct), but many far left socialist groups and parties have defended the rights of workers in Europe since the end of the Second World War, and been actual defenders of social-democratic rights and sentiment in European democracies which have taken worrying far right leanings in times of economic/political instability or panic/backlash. Many well established Marxist parties have been long against the Soviet Union and what it stood for...(like the Trots mainly)
...and what about democratically elected Marxist leaders who have been outed by CIA backed coups, only to be replaced by proto-Fascist juntas????
Stalinsim is largely dead (apart from N Korea)... long live the fraternal internationalism of Socialism! Unless you hate union rights, a minimum wage and the fact that you're gran might actually get a winter heating allowance (no matter how puny)

*expecting diatribe of abuse with bated breath*



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by UK Wizard
communism is bad, plain and simple

changing the name doesn't make it better

and i bet nobody can sit behind their computer and defend it!


UK Wizard has got a point.
I cant see a birth of Communism again after the Cold War


What are you talking about? Communism never went away? China is still Communist.. Cuba is still Communist..



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 08:25 AM
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Thanks for the info mongoose. I appreciate the links. I see what you're saying, and will be looking into this more.

I think you are correct in your assertion that this is simply commies in drag.

The third way is being held up as post-postmodern in graduate economics and poli-sci these days.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by mongoose
what part of "Communism" don't you get?


The part where it has anything to do with this communitarian idea. It seems to be a mix of 'libertarianism' and concern for the community.

And I specifically noted that wealth redistribution is part of a communist system, so it hardly makes sense for you to repeat my statements to me. Wealth Redistribution is not soley a communist idea however, and a graduated income tax system is a 'wealth redistributing' method, as is any form of welfare or social security.


armap:
Why do you say communism is bad?


I would say that communism is 'bad' because it demands violent radical overthrow of all other governments and promotes literal warfare between the rich and everyone else. Upon the establishment of its 'utopia' form of the state, doctors and janitors (in the usual formulation of this anyway) are paid the same amount of money. So in that consideration its also 'bad' because its unworkable.


qoelet:
like the Trots mainly


Didn't the trotskyites urge global war and expansion of the SU as a method of promotign the revolution abroad?



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 08:28 AM
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What are you talking about? Communism never went away? China is still Communist.. Cuba is still Communist..



China's isn't really very communist is it, it has a class system now, it puts wealth first, really it's a capitalist-communist hybrid country

Cuba.... don't know much about Cuba so i can't comment



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 10:06 AM
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Communism is good. Free education and healthcare for all.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by mongoose

what part of "Communism" don't you get? You're talking about how communitarians are into "redistributing wealth", and into promoting the good of the collective over the individual, etc. uuuhhhh... last time I checked, that was called Communism..


No, that's not communism. that's a left leaning social policy.

What I'd like to know is why Americans are still paranoid about communism? Why are they so afraid of a out dated, totally discredited system that exists nowhere in the world except North Korea and Cuba?

Too much worrying about communism and fascism will jump up and bite you on the arse. That's the mistake Europe made in the 1930s.



posted on Aug, 26 2004 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Aelita
Communism is good.


i hope you were being sarcastic



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Aelita
Communism is good. Free education and healthcare for all.


There's a little more to communism than that. Perhaps you meant to say 'free education and universal healthcare is good' no? There are non communist countries that have this.


muppet:
why Americans are still paranoid about communism?


Old habits die hard? As far as red scares leading to facism, well, technically it shouldn't, but it does seem to go that way doesn't it? But what's so bad about facism? Not naziism, but regular old facism? I mean, I certainly don't recommend it, but the worst part of communist paranoia probably isn't the possibility of becoming corporate-facist-oligarhic no? Also, couldn't, in theory at least, there be a democratic fascist state?

[edit on 27-8-2004 by Nygdan]



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard

Originally posted by Aelita
Communism is good.


i hope you were being sarcastic


It's funny how people are still scared of communism as it were a plague of biblical proportions. It's become a taboo, apparently, created by the capitalist system and suitably planted in everybody's brain.

Yes, I was partially sarcastic. I think before saying comunism is evil one needs to remember that some parts of it were really humane. Others weren't, though. My greatgranddad spent 25 years in a concentration camp in the former SU, largely for being of noble descent, and it's not something that I take lightly. However, it still is amazing that people are running for the hills at a mere mention of communism. Gee, my college years under the communism were swell, and I know many people from relatively poor families who got excellent education and interesting careers, partly because the system was conducive of that.

It's jsut the reality is more complex than many people prefer to recognize.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 08:43 AM
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Im afraid some people on this discussion are mislabeling true communism with Bolshevik/Stalinist totalitarianism. Thats a very unfortunate label to place on communism but years upon years of propaganda are to blame for this. Stalin took advantage and exploited democratic socialism by claiming the Soviet Union's tyranic party was socialist of communist.



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