Lets talk about real gas masks, page 1

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Topic started on 16-9-2011 @ 02:54 PM by DaddyBare

Not only did a have a great deal of NBC Decon training in my day, I also have OSHA training and have worked in Poison Gas environments. along with some other very nasty industrial HAZMATS... I have literally worked in an enclosed container filled with high levels of H2S Hydrogen sulfide in concentrations high enough that one breath would kill a man instantly... so you can say I know a thing or 3 about gas masks, what works what doesn't and what will cost you your life... with the photo section being down... I'm going to send you off site for pictures

First... lets make sure were on the same page...
Click here for NUCLEAR, BIOLOGICAL, AND CHEMICAL (NBC) DECONTAMINATION PROCEDURES.

In the civilian world we have other standards we must follow and those can be found NIOSH Guide to the Selection and Use of Particulate Respirators

Never buy a cheap army surplus mask....this is not the 1950's... there is a reason those old style masks were outdated... they dont work as well as hoped...never buy any mask unless it comes with a CBRN rating (Chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear) some blister agents will make cheap plastic dissolve...
Click this link for an Example of CBRN PAPR System

This next one is the one I used in my job.PAPR System, Welding, HE/OV/AG Filter

PAPR System, Welding, Cartridge Type High Efficiency Particulate (HE), Organic Vapor, Acid Gas (Sulfur Dioxide, Chlorine, Hydrogen Chloride), Color Magenta/Yellow, Battery NiMH, Suspension Ratchet, Lens Material Glass/Poly, Hood Material Polyamide Nylon, NIOSH Approval TC-23C-2187, Includes Helmet 9000HWR, Auto Darkening Filter 9002X (Variable 9-13 Shade), Blower, Filter Cover, Spark Arrestor, Prefilter, HE/OV/AG Filter, Battery, Smart Charger, Belt, Breathing Tube Assembly And Flow Indicator

Both of these types of mask are positive pressure Masks... they keep a small leak from getting in... their not cheap well over $1500 and they too have a time limit on how long you can work in one before swapping out to new very expensive cartridges... in the case of h2s gas environments... no cartridge is effective so we had to hook up to external Class D air tanks... much like you see firefighters wear...

look I hope you never have to use any of this stuff... but once again there is either a lack of real info, or a lot of disinfo on this subject...please, please. please... dont trust your life to an army surplus mask... if you have to use one threat it was an escape mask and plan to get out of there within minutes... like under 5...

well sorry this one came out like a lecture but this one topic is very serious and not one to take lightly

edit on 16-9-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 06:49 PM by wiandiii

I picked up some new NATO surplus gas masks with NBC filters. I believe they are Israeli. Certainly not as good as a $1500 unit but they are good enough for my intended purpose, to be able to filter out common smoke and gas attacks by domestic law enforcement. I live in a downtown area so I could potentially get caught in the crossfire of some rioters and looters. I would rather have them than nothing at all.

edit on 16-9-2011 by wiandiii because: for content

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 07:06 PM by neo96

reply to post by DaddyBare

i was looking at gas masks the other day trying to find something i would bet my life on

and that wont be cheap i have seen and read alot of isreali gas masks and others but im not willing to waste a few dollars on something that could get me killed.

found a site long time ago but up forever and i was trying to make the right decision on purchasing one.

i have 4 choices that i was seriously considering on buying.

www.approvedgasmasks.com...

www.approvedgasmasks.com...

www.approvedgasmasks.com...

www.approvedgasmasks.com...

was also seriously considering these outer and inner garments

www.approvedgasmasks.com...

www.approvedgasmasks.com...

theres alot of disinfo floating out there and didnt know who to really talk to about cbnr.

dirty bombs and chem bio are very real credible threats and everyone should have quality gear and training in regards.

those items good choices are bad ones?

also seriously looked at this website with their full body demron suits.

www.radshield.com...

then you can even begin to talk about cbrn without detection equipment i have seen alot of the civil defense meters around and agian not willing to be my life on those.

a fool proof means of measuement will be needed.

decisions decisions..........

edit on 16-9-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 07:26 PM by RelentlessLurker

all i could afford was finnish 60mm surplus.

better than nothing i reckon.

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 09:45 PM by allenidaho

I use an MCU-2P gas mask with a ballistic polycarbonate face shield. Works just fine.

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 09:48 PM by queenofsheba

I have four old, most likely '60's era gas masks, that my ex brought up to me on 9/11, when he thought it was SHTF day. They're in a box, not sure how reliable they are but my son used it for a Hallween costume one year....creepy...

reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 09:35 AM by DaddyBare

reply to post by neo96

the simple way to pick is to look at what first responders use... Emergency Responders called into dangerous conditions, where PAPRs are appropriate, require the best protection available. This means protection that helps reduce exposure to many toxic industrial chemicals as well as military agents and particles.
they use something like this from 3M3M CBRN powered air supply
this one is standard issue to FEMA ...

(bul) Certain PAPR systems provide a higher level of respiratory protection than non-powered air filtering respirators.
(bul) Constant flow of air can provide cooling for the worker, resulting in greater comfort for the wearer
(bul) Loose-fitting headgear options provide respiratory protection without the need for a tight faceseal or fit testing
(bul) Battery-powered blower pulls the air through the filter resulting in no additional breathing resistance to the wearer

This NIOSH-approved powered air purifying respirator assembly includes:

that lose fitting... no need to insure a tight seal is perfect for kids whose heads would be to small for a normal mask or ladies with long hair... BTW it still works just fine if the batteries die... your still breathing filtered air... but it's not as easy to work or fight in one of these...

BTW that Facepiece Respirator FR-M40 on your list might be the best choice in that it is current standard issue... meaning if forced to scrounge... replacement canisters will only be as far away as your nearest fire department... BTW they make this same model as a full face piece... makes working in one a whole lot easier as your not always having to turn your head to see what your doing...

edit on 17-9-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 04:09 PM by neo96

reply to post by DaddyBare

thanks man with your help narrowed it down to these 2 for the gaskmask and cbnr filter

www.approvedgasmasks.com...

www.approvedgasmasks.com...

really having my doubts on the protection level of this not seeing any protection for the nuclear radiological problem

approvedgasmasks.com...

maybe im wrong

for a backup of the powered cbnr part of my strategy giving myself options never to be too dependent upon any 1 thing

edit on 17-9-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-9-2011 @ 02:28 AM by allenidaho

The suit is very similar to the ACPG suit I used to use. This type of suit was designed to keep chemical and biological agents from being able to contact your skin. Additionally, it is capable of blocking alpha and beta radiation.

The suit itself is lined with activated charcoal to keep you safe. The activated charcoal is what keeps chemical and biological agents from seeping in through the suit. It should also have a hood flap with draw strings to make a good seal around your gas mask. You can wash the suit and reuse it up to 3 times. And you are also only supposed to use this type of suit for up to 24 hours in a contaminated area.

When it comes to radiation, the idea is to keep the fallout off your skin. That is what these suits are for. No suit will protect you from gamma radiation.

reply posted on 18-9-2011 @ 01:01 PM by RelentlessLurker

reply to post by allenidaho

led suite.

i made one out of spent led pellets (from target practice) and duct tape.

just hammer them and sandwhich them between 2 pieces of duct tape into uniform strips. then design your outfit with those strips and connect them all.

i used camo-print duct tape from walmart.

reply posted on 19-9-2011 @ 12:16 AM by allenidaho

reply to post by RelentlessLurker

Won't work. The lead would need to be about a half-inch thick just to cut the radiation exposure in half one time. In order to cut high levels of radiation to acceptable levels, you need at least 10 half-thicknesses. Which is roughly 5-inches of lead around your entire body with no gaps to allow radiation in.

reply posted on 19-9-2011 @ 03:08 PM by abeverage

I wonder how many have to weigh survival vs. living, when you start talking $100's for a tool or equipment when you have a family to feed, clothe and house. Then you must choose what is responsible and practical and what have as much use as Shark Repellent in the Midwest…

Gas masks although they would give me some comfort I suppose are nowhere near my practical range of affordability vs. possibility standard.

reply posted on 21-9-2011 @ 04:46 AM by ignorant_ape

reply to post by allenidaho

utter twaddle - look at the storage / transport containers used for laboratary / medical isotope samples

reply posted on 21-9-2011 @ 05:06 AM by zatara

reply to post by ignorant_ape

Maybe we should ask NASA...they know how to shield radiation with thin aluminium plating..

Anyways...I agree radiation is a problem. Full protection against biological, toxic gasses will be an expensive undertaking.

I think it is also important to know where to find a place where you can take off your suit and mask before you run out of filters, batteries or when you need to pie/ do number 2 or eat.

edit on 21/9/2011 by zatara because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 21-9-2011 @ 09:12 PM by allenidaho

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by allenidaho

utter twaddle - look at the storage / transport containers used for laboratary / medical isotope samples

Do you see this?

This is one of the many types of containers used to transport gamma radiation emitting isotopes and waste. The small lead vials used to transport medical isotopes are meant to shield very small amounts of alpha and beta emitting isotopes.

I'd suggest you learn the difference between alpha, beta and gamma radiation.

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