The Confederate Flag: A Disturbing Trend?

I'm in Georgia, and granted, I'm white, but it has always blown me away when people say the flag is racist.

That's what school's teach though, that the whole civil war and everything about the south was all about keeping blacks as slaves. History is written by the winners. I hate that, because I think a lot of times it might make blacks and northerners SEE racism where none is intended.

The confederate flag is something I don't have in my home, but a lot of my family members have them somewhere. For them it is about rebellion and fighting back. (Not specifically anything to do with abolition or not, rather rebellion in the sense to rebel and fight just to keep people from telling you what the heck to do.)

So with everything so messed up these days, I imagine if you are seeing more of it, that's what it's about. There maybe people outside the South taking it up for racist reasons, I don't know, but first and foremost it is known as the REBEL flag.

The other thing, is like, my family hails from Scotland. Sometimes that is what people are meaning and seeing in the flag, and some people get the confederate flag mixed up with that. :/

I just got a Warning for my last post, in which there was nothing racist or "hate speech" about it, just a simple observation, which I think is obviously true, as many can point out and also got a few stars.
So you guys better watch what you type. There was nothing wrong with my post.

Originally posted by Butterbone
Bottom Line!

The confederate flag was flown by people who didn't want to be Americans.
The confederate flag was flown by people who killed REAL Americans.

Confederate Flag = Al Qaeda = Terrorist!!!

edit on 16-9-2011 by Butterbone because: correction

I wouldn't come down here in Alabama or Georgia on the streetcorner yelling that drivel. I certainly wouldn't repeat it in a bar, if I were you. You might find out that the war isn't completely over.

That's just a word of advice.
You can try it, if you want, but it won't be like an Internet forum.

Im from North Carolina. I dont own a Confederate flag nor does anyone in my family. But to say that it is just about racism is far from the truth. Its about southern heirtage (people from the South happen to be quite proud of it) thats all it is, maybe some of the people that fly them are racist but not all of them. Its also worth metioning that the worst racism I ever saw was when i moved to DC

Originally posted by littled16
I live in the South and when I see a Confederate flag flying the first thing I think of is the KKK or the Skinheads. I find it offensive and most people that I know do also. At one point and time it might have represented something else but those times have been long gone in my book.

I live in The South and when I see the Confederate Flag I think That's Our True Flag. That Flag represents Freedom, Sovereignty, The Republic that this country is, that Democracy is not what this country is based on ( in fact the forefathers were dead set against this and deemed democracy as a form of government to be Evil).

Don't you folks know many Northerners had black slaves too! Slavery was not isolated to the south or to the Confederate States.

i don't think of the KKK or racism when i see that flag that's the farthest thought from my mind.

Originally posted by kinnerarity

Originally posted by xEphon
reply to post by reeferman

 

Ah yes, the freedom excuse. You're right, the confederate flag can be a symbol of the states constitutional right to secede as long as you're willing to take with it all the other attributes that the flag can be But, to sit there and say that it's the symbol of FREEDOM?? That's ludicrous. We have a symbol of freedom and its the AMERICAN flag.

The please explain why Lincoln freed the slaves south of the Mason-Dixon line and not above it........ That is a easily verifyable FACT that has not been re-written. No aplogists needed. Not sure how to link to off site qoutes - but from wikipedia:

On September 22, 1862, Lincoln announced that he would issue a formal emancipation of all slaves in any state of the Confederate States of America that did not return to Union control by January 1, 1863. None did return and the actual order, signed and issued January 1, 1863, took effect except in locations where the Union had already mostly regained control. The Proclamation made abolition a central goal of the war (in addition to reunion), outraged white Southerners who envisioned a race war, angered some Northern Democrats, energized anti-slavery forces, and weakened forces in Europe that wanted to intervene to help the Confederacy.[2]

Total abolition of slavery was finalized by the Thirteenth Amendment which took effect in December 1865.

en.wikipedia.org...

Pretty self explanatory......................................... slaves were free in the south, but not in the north AND areas that were under Union Control................

edit on Fri Sep 16 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

edit on Fri Sep 16 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS /// MOD NOTE: Posting work written by others

It was a threat the Union made good on. The Union knew freeing the slaves would hurt many of the large well to do financially secure families and companies because they used slave labor. It wasn't about the slaves themselves at all.. it was about taking away the work force that held much of the south together. It was a way to break the south and harm the well to do backers of the Confederacy and get the upper hand. No more would the Confederacy threaten to leave the Union, they needed the Union now more than ever.

It was the last stroke of the Union taking over the Confederacy - just like the US overthrows other countries today. We do these types of things all the time in war. It was a military tactic the same as capturing a supply line, nothing more.

Originally posted by reeferman
reply to post by xEphon

 

the Confederate Flag is NOT about racism..

its about FREEDOM....

The freedom to own slaves.

I wonder if the slaves saw it as a symbol of freedom.

Originally posted by tankerpilot
Nonsense.

The confederate flag respresented a group of states that stood up to the federal government. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.

And what were they standing up to them about? Yeah, sure it had to do with Economic issues, for example....Suddenly they might have to pay for labor!

Originally posted by bismos


its called the rebel flag for a reason - f the federal government.

Yeah, F them... Those scum bags wanted the south to have to pay for their labor? How dare them.

And it's funny...I keep seeing the flag supporters playing the race card and saying, how dare you call me a racist?!? Which is interesting because they are also the ones that have been calling everyone who disagrees with them, racist in this thread....

Makes perfect sense.

If you think that people who understand the confederate army was in favor of slavery, and fought for it ( Among other things) are racist for not liking the fact that the south fought in favor of slavery.... Then... You really need to rethink your priorities.

People are making a very reasonable connection between slavery, racism and the flag. It is silly to say that it was about state rights and leave it at that....

You see it as a symbol of freedom. Others don't and I know you can understand the connection....

You are the one playing the race card here.... Not the ones who dislike the flag....

Originally posted by reeferman
reply to post by xEphon

 

the Confederate Flag is NOT about racism..

its about FREEDOM....

Too suggest that the confederate army was only about state rights is naive at best, a down right disgusting lie at worst.

You know damn well there was also that whole... Slavery issue involved and that it just so happened, the confederates were fighting in favor of it.

So, my question, are you glad the south lost?

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

And what were they standing up to them about? Yeah, sure it had to do with Economic issues, for example....Suddenly they might have to pay for labor!

Your just making stuff up, go buy a book... The fact is plantation records show that slaves worked less, were better fed, better wages and conditions being better than what was available to free slaves.

It's simple really, the North started the war in fear of the south becoming an economic power.

Originally posted by The Old American


Learn freaking history people. The War Between the States became about slavery later on, but it didn't come about because of it.

/TOA

Why on earth does it matter when slavery became in issue in the war? The fact is that it was a part of the civil war. The fact is the confederates were in favor of slavery....

The fact is many black slaves were forced to fight for the confederates.... They could do that then you know... Because of that whole... slavery thing that was supported by the confederates......

I know my history....

Now you quit being misleading and pretending that slavery was not a big part of the war..... Regardless of when it became an issue.... As if when, matters.

Originally posted by TheRedneck


Incidentally, for those who still want to scream the war was about slavery, think about these facts:

• Under the United States, slavery existed for 77 years. Under the Confederacy, slavery existed 4 years.

Very misleading of you.. Slavery was happening on this soil, long before we were a country....The fact is that the first slaves to come to what is now called the United States,were brought here starting in around 1526.

Black slavery in America was an institution created by the northern colonies, primarily Massachusetts and New York. The first slaves in the southeast came there by way of northern slave-traders.

Yeah, because that is where the first white settlers were.... It spread through out the land...Not sure why that is supposed to matter.... Eventually the north took a general stand against it, the south, for it....

There were many black regiments in the Confederate Army, and they fought as hard as their white counterparts.

There were many black people forced to fight for the confederate army, by their white owners...

The concept of freeing slaves was gaining popularity in the Southeast well before the war, just as it was in the northern states.

Does this change the fact that their was this thing called the civil war, and in it, one of the things they fought over, was the right to own human beings? No.

General Ulysses S. Grant was a proponent of segregation, and General William Tecumseh Sherman openly despised blacks... to the extent that during his escapade of war crimes, he had his men use physical force to restrain freed slaves from traveling with his hoard, even though his slash-and-burn campaign left them with no food or shelter.Thirdly, the Confederacy did not declare war; the Union did. The Confederacy simply withdrew from the Union and, as is any nation's right, instructed Federal agents to return to their country.

These generals were racist then. Question, why does it matter who declared war? I say it matters what each side was fighting for... Slavery was one of those things the south was fighting for.

Fourthly, the separation happened after numerous attempts to resolve the problems internally, and was in response to the failure of the Federal government to uphold its own Constitution. We did not break the agreement; we simply declared it null and void because the Federal government broke it.

Oh, well as long as it was all the federal governments fault... that makes it okay that the south was fighint in favor of slavery ( yes, among other things.... just quit pretending slavery was not one of those things)

Now, if you still want to call the Confederate battlejack flag 'racist', then I suppose that is your right. But unless you want me to call you a hypocrite, you should also call the United States flag racist, the British flag racist, heck, about every flag flown racist. Because slavery was not an America episode; it was in fact global.

Note that I have not called anything racist, just that I want you to be fair and admit, that among other things,the confederate army was also fighting in favor of slavery....Don't pretend they weren't.

And for the record, slavery is still global...Just because it is not legal,does not mean it is not still happening. Even here in the US. Sad fact.

I also suggest you cry 'racism!' every time you see someone wearing a 'Malcolm X' insignia, or perhaps every time you hear about an organization that is only for people of a certain skin color, or every time you hear about an event that emphasizes ski color.

Still not crying racism.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., who I consider one of the great humanitarians of our country, said:

I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification; one day right there in Alabama, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

Source: www.usconstitution.net...

Isn't it great that the union won so that we could move on and get started on this dream much quicker? I wonder how many years it would have taken us to get where we are now, if the south had won...You think we would have ever heard of Martin Luther King Jr? Hmmm

Yes, Dr. King, you had a dream. You had an amazing, uplifting dream that deserves to be fulfilled. But I am glad I will never be the one to have to tell you that your very followers, those who cheered you on that day in Selma Alabama, are now the oppressors, judging me and mine by nothing more than the place I was born, the color of my skin, and the heritage I hold dear.

Did I judge you?No.I disagreed. What do you think MLK thought of the flag?

Bottom line, it may not represent racism to some.But it does to others....

To suggest that it is silly to think of racism when looking at that flag is silly in itself.

Do I see racism when I see a person waving that flag? No, I see a person who.... apparently supports the confederate army.

Where people see racism is in the fact that yes, the confederate army,did fight in favor of slavery.

Yes, black people fought with the confederates. Most of whom were forced to do so, being slaves and all.

When it became an issue for the war, does not matter. It was an issue and I can fully understand why people think racism when they see that flag.

So to call people racist because they think the flag is racist? Does that really make sense to you?


Nothing more I can say, so I will leave it at that.

Good day.

Originally posted by imitator


Your just making stuff up, go buy a book... The fact is plantation records show that slaves worked less, were better fed, better wages and conditions being better than what was available to free slaves.

It's simple really, the North started the war in fear of the south becoming an economic power.

I did not make up the fact that the confederates fought in favor of slavery.

Wow, are you going to suggest that the slaves had it good? Try using common sense. Slaves were fed for the same reason they fed their live stock... Got to keep them strong....

Freed slaves had it bad. Very true....They faced horrible discrimination and had to survive, often with nothing, because that is what the white man allowed them to have.... Even though they were "free"

You realize that what you just posted comes across as you trying to justify slavery right?

I can no longer take you seriously....

The north started the war....I have said this already( Try reading what I have written...If you want to talk about reading). Does that change the fact that the south fought in favor of slavery and the north fought to end it? Nope....

read a book indeed... Thanks for the laugh.

All I am saying is that the people who support the flag need to acknowledge that the feelings of racism that some have, are justified.... Slavery was a big issue involved in the civil war and to try and suggest that it was just about state rights or to say "Oh but the north started it!", is just....silly.

Personally I don't care if a person flies the flag or not... But admit that those who feel it is a racist symbol are justified in their feelings because of it's attachment to a group that did in fact, fight in favor of slavery.

Fair enough? No? Well too bad. The fact is, people connect the flag, to the confederate army, who did fight in favor of slavery.... And people will always see it as a racist symbol for that reason...

Mentioning other things they fought for.... does not change this fact.

There, I laid it all out for you. Deal with it or not. I really don't care.

Good day.