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The Confederate Flag: A Disturbing Trend?

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posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 10:32 PM
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The Confederate Flag isn't ONLY about racism. In fact, I don't think it's about racism at all. Some of the soldiers who fought under the flag were racist, sure, but that's like seeing one orange fish in the ocean then claiming all fish are orange. The Confederate Flag was mostly a sign of rebellion against the government. In fact, the quote "WHEN TYRANNY BECOMES LAW, REBELLION BECOMES DUTY." was coined by a confederate soldier, and i'm sure you wouldn't disagree with that.




posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by Xeven
I want to clarify that I have not read anything other than the first post on this thread. I grew up in the south. At some point it appeared the confederate flag was a cool thing to display and maybe wear as a bandana on the head in my youth. Later in life i realized the significance of it being racist in some minds. If I offended anyone or I Hope it it not effect them to greatly.

'I post this to let some of you know that youth may display the flag and not really "get" all that it means. So I ask that you at least give people the benifit of the doubt when seeing such a display of the confederate flag. Not all young folks like me relized all that it could mean to everyone viewing it.


I of course would no longer display such things as not to cause anyone issues though I reserve the right to be stupid.

X


I grew up in the North but my my maternal grandmother and my dad's family were all from the South. I spent 9 years in North Carolina being told that as a Northerner I was not welcome because I was a Northerner. I had ancestors on both sides of the war. None of my family there displays the flag. My brother-in-law had a Confederate flag that he thought was cool because he was all into the rebellion against authority. That brother-in-law was from Indiana and all of his ancestors were from the North.

This same family he was from had stereotypical images of Native American women in the bikini type things they believed them to wear. When I commented to my father-in-law that I was also part Shawnee, they were offended by that. When I commented on the Easter ham that it was not kosher they were offended by that. I am also part Jewish. It seems that no matter what I am, to them I am offensive. I am not a Jewish person by faith and the unkosher Easter ham was said in a very joking manner. These people believed in the stereotyping of people they knew nothing about. I am no longer married to that husband from that family but they still hold their ideas of stereotyping. This family from the North was actually more hillbilly than my grandparents. And I can say hillbilly because my family are hillbillies. In doing that ex-husband's genealogy, I found no person in his family that were in the Civil War.

I do not fill my house with Native American things such as dream catchers and those things like wolves heads on dream catchers because to me, they are part of being Native American, of which I am only a part. I want to respect Native Americans by not displaying stereotypical things about them.

So when we see things that are symbolic, we have to ask ourselves if it speaks against the dignity of another human being. The Confederate flag does speak against the dignity of the humanity of the black slaves that did not come here on their own and were forced to be slaves. And that indignity is what a lot of young men died to end and a lot of young men died to preserve.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by watcher3339
 


This reminds me of when Ed Sullivan asked the Doors to change the lyrics in "light my fire" from "get much higher" to "get much better".

Why must we bend? Why do we worry about someone else with a hang up? Why must we tear down the statues of our Confederate Fallen?

Why must we forget our Battle Flag?


The middle of the road is a dangerous place to stand.

You tend to be ran over.

Its not popular nowadays but EVERYONE must choose and know what they believe true regardless of the topic..

Be hot or be cold. But.be a man with conviction that never wavers.

Yall northerners and californians dont understand us. Thats fine. We arent like yall. Never will be.

I have a double whammy.

I'm also a Texan, By the Grace of God.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by MidnightTide
 


Amen brother

and pass the ammo!



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 10:40 PM
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Inhumane humans that have no morals and don't care for anyone else but themselves yet want others to do it all for them becuase they either are lazy or more likely, just incapable......These are the people who fly confedarate flags



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by xEphon
reply to post by felonius
 


Honestly, I have no idea what you're even talking about.
Never once did I say people should not fly the flag.
The purpose of this OP was to see if people up North noticed an increasing trend in confederate flags. Believe me, you and your southern boys can have it. I think that's the only place it belongs.


Then I misunderstood the point of your post and I sincerely apologize.

....although, if some of our Northern Kindred see wisdom in our ways, they are as entitled to its use as we are.

Geography doesnt hinder mindset nor does it hinder solidarity.

But yeah. It does make me ill when I see someone with a sticker that obviously has no idea of its meaning.

That goes for the US and Imperial German colors as well.

I saw a flag once in someones yard that had the stars and bars with a big picture of Waylon Jennings in the middle of it.

Double blasphemy.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by watcher3339
Why must we tear down the statues of our Confederate Fallen?

Why must we forget our Battle Flag?


You consider yourself to be part of the foreign nation of the C.S.A.? Is the South really gonna' rise again? Does Ron Paul know that you, as a loyalist to the C.S.A., support him?



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by daggyz
Inhumane humans that have no morals and don't care for anyone else but themselves yet want others to do it all for them becuase they either are lazy or more likely, just incapable......These are the people who fly confederate flags


I find the display of the Confederate Flag in Pennsylvania to be abhorrent on many levels from racism to treason. I am against it. The people who are displaying it are, in my opinion after much discussion, racist: even when they don't recognize themselves as being so. HOWEVER, not one of them was lazy. They are some of the hardest working folk I have ever met. And recently, they have foudn themselves on short end of this very pointy stick economy we've got going. They are filled with frustration and resentment. Some of them are even filled with hate and violence (not all by a long shot) but to call them lazy is not only inaccurate, it would be as offensive to them as the flag they are flying is to others.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by xEphon
 



You are sorely mistaken. The confederate flag did not have anything to do with racism. It never did. It was a symbol of the south's desire to be sovereign. It's a symbol of southern pride. It's a symbol to remind people not to give up on their beliefs. The thirteen stars on the flag represent the thirteen southern states that joined the confederacy. That's it. Nothing more. There is no hidden meaning to suggest that the colors, design, or content in the flag promoted slavery.

Frankly it amazes me to see organizations banning it. It's part of American history. Just because the south lost doesn't mean the people who live there lost too. If you or anyone else want to ban the flag, you should leave the United States because you don't believe in the first amendment. And let's remember that slavery was not the reason why the southern states left the union.

Organizations like the KKK have adopted the flag and given it a bad name.
Hell it was on the General Lee in the Dukes of Hazard and Uncle Jesse and Bo and Luke Duke weren't racist.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 10:53 PM
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i am from the north and i believe that the south had every right to secede from the union. The flag is not racist it reperesents freedom



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by watcher3339
 


This reminds me of when Ed Sullivan asked the Doors to change the lyrics in "light my fire" from "get much higher" to "get much better".

Why must we bend? Why do we worry about someone else with a hang up? Why must we tear down the statues of our Confederate Fallen?

Why must we forget our Battle Flag?


The middle of the road is a dangerous place to stand.

You tend to be ran over.

Its not popular nowadays but EVERYONE must choose and know what they believe true regardless of the topic..

Be hot or be cold. But.be a man with conviction that never wavers.

Yall northerners and californians dont understand us. Thats fine. We arent like yall. Never will be.

I have a double whammy.

I'm also a Texan, By the Grace of God.


I never asked you to give up your statues or your flag. But I will and do ask my fellow Pennsylvanians not to adopt something which they either don't understand, shows hatred (because in the NORTH it DOES), or which actually hinders their just attempts to liberate themselves from a Federal Government which has reached further than the Constitution allows. By using such a symbol in the North they may miss allies who agree with what their actual cause is (if indeed their actual cause is resetting the balance between the states and the Federal Government to that which is agreed upon in the Constitution) because up here most folk see someone in with the Stars and Bars and figure them KKK and haters. The South can do things however they like. Other states (even in the north) can do things however they like. But I have and will continue to challenge the residents of my own state to do it a different way.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:06 PM
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The Civil War was not over slavery as most people believe. It has what has been taught and forced upon us in school. The excuse was slavey, if not it they would have come up with a differenet excuse. It was more than states rights, this was the beginning of the federal government taking over our individual liberties. Yes, there was slavery in the south and it was wrong. The southern states tried to work out compromises but the north wanted a war. Ever since the government has slowly taken away it's citizens rights and showed the states who is the boss.

A lot of people form an opinion over subjects like the Confederate Flag being a symbol of hate have not studied the real history. The victors write the history books and only tell their side of the story. Search for the truth it's out there if you look for it.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by xEphon
 
The Confederate Flag is a reminder to all that the South was Independent from the Federalist States, that it fought to retain its independence and many still claim they never converted...that is the brief of it. The Confederate Flag is anti the US Flag and what it represents.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by watcher3339
Why must we tear down the statues of our Confederate Fallen?

Why must we forget our Battle Flag?


You consider yourself to be part of the foreign nation of the C.S.A.? Is the South really gonna' rise again? Does Ron Paul know that you, as a loyalist to the C.S.A., support him?


I am First, a Texan,

Second, a Southerner,

And third, an American.

If you mess with any of the above three, I have an issue with you.

IF there were a new "Jeff Davis" and secession, my choice would be obvious...and the outcome VASTLY different.

the objective now is to square up the USA so that the larger whole has a chance.

I really dont care what ron paul thinks about me BTW.


My but you sound so "scandalized"



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by watcher3339
 


And you should do as you will.

You have your convictions. Others have their own.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by watcher3339
 


And you should do as you will.

You have your convictions. Others have their own.


A big part of my point though is that our convictions, mine and yours, might actually be the same. In this very thread where people are fighting over the flag, how many of us believe that the Federal Government has stepped outside the bounds of its constiutionally given bounds? I suspect a lot of us have. But here we all are, bickering, because the symbol itself means too many things to too many different people. I suggest 10th ammendment Tshirts for everyone!



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by xEphon
 


I think the confederate flag still has sentimental value for racist and trashy poor white people. Many of the white people who currently live in old suburbs in PA and NJ had parents and grandparents that were originally from Viriginia and North Carolina. After slavery ended and the south lost much of it wealth to the industrialized north, their ancestors migrated to northern states for the manufacturing and factory jobs. They remained bitter and hateful toward blacks and minorities because they feel their hopes and dreams of building or maintaining wealth through free slave labor were stolen. They felt cheated, they actually had to earn their living by pulling their own weight. Over time they gradually stopped being so open about their hatred because it was no longer PC or probably forgot because they adapted to the new American dream. Many of their children went to college, got white collar jobs, and moved to nicer suburbs with bigger houses, but some of them never truly got over it and passed it down to their children.

So anyone who says the confederate flag is not synonymous with racism is either a liar or naive. Yes,holding onto the flag only symbolizes a states right to keep slavery legal and white privilege by violence and discrimination.

When times get rough (and they will get rough again) they have to blame and be angry at someone for their stolen American dream. They lost the first one and now they are losing the second one. The pool of people they hate has now only gotten bigger. Black people, the federal government, Russians, Indian for lost of IT jobs, Muslims / Middle Easterners for 9/11, and now China for stealing the last bit of manufacturing jobs.

I wish all the confederate lovers would join together and move to Texas for its secession from the union. Damn confederate loving Texas can't even put out a fire on their own so lets see them protect themselves from Mexico, China, and every other country with nuclear weapons in the world. The day they get their freedom from the union will be the same day they die and I say good riddance!!



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by MaryStillToe
 


While my previous responses will make it clear that I agree with you that there is racism up North and the Confederate Flag represents racism when displayed in the north, I don't think it is accurate to suggest that the people in the north who are enamored of it are bitter because without the civil war and the freeing of slaves they would have been wealthy. The people who were wealthy enough to own slaves in the south have wealthy descendents today.
The people who are poor today were not very likely to have had plantation owning great grandparents.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:24 PM
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The democratic party is more a symbol of the support of slavery than the confederate flag. The confederate flag is more a symbol of resistance against federal oppression.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by MaryStillToe
 


This is just a guess, but a good one I bet. I'm thinking your the kind of person who bends over for the TSA.




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