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Originally posted by soaringhawk
reply to post by xEphon
The Confederate flag is not racist. The civil war was not about slavery. Only a small percent of the South owned slaves. YOU and those like you are the real racists speaking from a place of ignorance. I suggest you get your head out from the sand and do some real research!
Originally posted by Fromabove
The South did not secede over slavery, they seceded over "States Rights" verses intruding "Federalism". Go and read the declaration for secession given by the Southern States and then you'll know because they state the reasons for their decision.
In the States that seceded from the United States of America, slavery was only one of many arguments. Those that broke away believed that each State had the right to decided how each State is to run it's day to day life. Slavery was only just another part of that life, but it was not the reason for secession.
Some people really should read their history before they spout things. read the declarations for separation as expressed by the seceding States.
edit on 17-9-2011 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by TechniXcality
reply to post by Fromabove
This my friends is silly. Symbols that you use to represent a subjective view point are just that symbols. You’re placing too much credibility in the objective view point of symbolism, which is ironic because the popular belief in these parts is that we are somehow controlled by malevolent forces that use symbolism to manipulate our sheepish minds. In essence you are giving credibility to your own ignorance. When someone raises a flag look at the person not the flag there you will find the "meaning". Especially when it is an individual! a group of people however is a different story. For instance a group of people called the KKK adopt the confederate flag as to represent another form of racism. However these people have made it clear that they are a group by wearing Nazi symbols by dressing in white robes with white pointed hoods by marching around and spewing racism but be realistic if some country boy raises a confederate flag but claims no racism to look at him as a racist in of it self defeats your understanding.
We the people of the State of Georgia in Convention assembled do declare and ordain and it is hereby declared and ordained that the ordinance adopted by the State of Georgia in convention on the 2nd day of January. In the year of our Lord seventeen hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the constitution of the United States of America was assented to, ratified and adopted, and also all acts and parts of acts of the general assembly of this State, ratifying and adopting amendments to said constitution, are hereby repealed, rescinded and abrogated. We do further declare and ordain that the union now existing between the State of Georgia and other States under the name of the United States of America is hereby dissolved, and that the State of Georgia is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State. Passed January 19, 1861.
Originally posted by KJV1611
Originally posted by reeferman
reply to post by xEphon
the Confederate Flag is NOT about racism..
its about FREEDOM....
Hear hear!! Star for you!
President Jefferson Davis's Inaugural Speech
Feb 18, 1861
GENTLEMEN OF THE CONGRESS OF THE CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA, FRIENDS AND FELLOW-CITIZENS:
Called to the difficult and responsible station of Chief Executive of the Provisional Government which you have instituted, I approach the discharge of the duties assigned to me with an humble distrust of my abilities, but with a sustaining confidence in the wisdom of those who are to guide and to aid me in the administration of public affairs, and an abiding faith in the virtue and patriotism of the people.
Looking forward to the speedy establishment of a permanent government to take the place of this, and which by its greater moral and physical power will be better able to combat with the many difficulties which arise from the conflicting interests of separate nations, I enter upon the duties of the office to which I have been chosen with the hope that
the beginning of our career as a Confederacy may not be obstructed by hostile opposition to our enjoyment of the separate existence and independence which we have asserted, and, with the blessing of Providence, intend to maintain. Our present condition, achieved in a manner unprecedented in the history of nations, illustrates the American idea that governments rest upon the consent of the governed, and that it is the right of the people to alter or abolish governments whenever they become destructive of the ends for which they were established .
Experience in public stations, of subordinate grade to this which your kindness has conferred, has taught me that care and toil and disappointment are the price of official elevation.
Originally posted by watcher3339
My first response was directed toward OP. A simple answering of a question, but after reading some of the other replies I have some thoughts.
I think people need to meet more in the middle.
YES, in the north especially the Confederate Flag is seen as a symbol of racial **** fill in the blank: superiority, hatred, ignorance, etc. But the word before that blank is definately "racial". I fully recognize, and so should some of the other posters, that it is different in much of the south. I have spent a good bit of time in the south and know people who are not racist and like the flag. And, let's be honest: it looks cool no matter what message it is being used to send.
Now, for those trying to tell the Confederate Flag folks that the Civil War was about slavery. I agree with the flag folk. It was not. And getting rid of slavery in the south was really more of a cunning strategy to pump up slave revolts behind enemy lines than it was about bettering the life of African Slaves.
There is an arugument that the Confederate Flag represents opposition to an overbearing and over reaching government.
I just think that there are better ways and symbols to represent such opposition given the way the symbol has become attached to racial hatred over the years. And that doesn't mean that the flag means that to everyone. But, it probably means it to a black person in the north so, in Pennsylvania at least, I think that if our current crew of rebels actually are protesting the government that they should really try to come up with a different rallying point. IF they can't come up with something else, well, that implies to me that they lack the kind of creative thought and intrinsic intelligence that would be required to make any meaningful changes to the current over reaching of the Federal Government.edit on 17-9-2011 by watcher3339 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Fromabove
The South did not secede over slavery, they seceded over "States Rights" verses intruding "Federalism"
In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.
The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."
This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.
The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.
We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.
This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.
Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by TravisT
Your perception on what side of the states has more racism is laughable
Park one night in Bordentown PA, at either the Pilot or the Petro, and turn on the CB.
Then tell me I'm wrong. The north hides it in dark shadows, but it is still there.