U.S. calls Palestinian goals counterproductive, page 2

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reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 08:19 PM by dontreally

reply to post by Vitchilo

ummm...Hamas bulldozes Palestinian houses.

They are atleast as corrupt as Fatah.

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 08:23 PM by dontreally

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Yep, war solves everything. You call someone your enemy so you can justify taking their sh*t. Killing people always solves the issues though right?

I dont want war. However, anyone with their brain working can see how futile this peace process has been and intrinsically is.

Israel, the Jews, have not only a historical and emotional connection with Israel, but much more importantly, there is a strong spiritual religious and spiritual identification of their self with the land.

Arabs, on the other hand, vastly outnumber Jews. They have all the power on their side and thus every reason to destroy Israel.

Only plausible way out, unfortunately, is war.

If we can avoid war, then id call it a miracle.

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 08:55 PM by purplemer

give them a country...!

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 10:05 PM by Corruption Exposed

reply to post by purplemer

LOL

Sorry that is the best one liner I have heard in a while

reply posted on 16-9-2011 @ 11:50 PM by itguysrule

The Palestinians are apparently still demanding Jerusalem as their capital. I'm sure they know that Israel will NEVER agree to give up Jerusalem. If they don't have Jerusalem they may as well be in Cleveland - there is no point.

Abbas knows that Obama has to veto this action in the Security Council or he will have no chance in 2012. Abbas is doing this to embarrass and isolate both the US and Israel. This is the action of someone who has no interest in negotiations (regardless of what he says) and thinks he can eventually get everything he wants while giving up nothing.

I expect the reaction from Israel to be very negative - they may even abandon the Oslo accords. They will have no incentive to negotiate anything with the Palestinians after this action. The UN will be more against Israel than ever but it is so toothless that nothing will happen especially without the US to do all of the heavy lifting.

I am not sure what the reaction from Obama will be because his is so unpredictable. In any event I see whatever little bit of progress has been achieved over the last 10 or 20 years going out the window.

reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 12:39 AM by dontreally

reply to post by itguysrule

The Palestinians are apparently still demanding Jerusalem as their capital. I'm sure they know that Israel will NEVER agree to give up Jerusalem. If they don't have Jerusalem they may as well be in Cleveland - there is no point.

this is from an op-ed piece i read

In contrast, Israel does have a lawful historical claim to Jerusalem, in which Jews have constituted the majority population for generations, since long before Israeli independence to the present day. Moreover, Jerusalem was the ancient capital of Jewish kingdoms that were the only sovereign nations ever to occupy the land. Consequently, there can be no justification for dividing the city. Arabs residing in Jerusalem would remain subject to Israeli civil and criminal law, and Israel would continue to protect and facilitate access to all religious sites and shrines as she always has done.

link

I expect the reaction from Israel to be very negative - they may even abandon the Oslo accords. They will have no incentive to negotiate anything with the Palestinians after this action. The UN will be more against Israel than ever but it is so toothless that nothing will happen especially without the US to do all of the heavy lifting.

From the same op-ed piece

In fact, there is growing support in some segments of Israeli society for formal annexation of Judea and Samaria, in whole or in part, or for de facto annexation through the extension of Israeli civil law into these territories.

reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 07:55 AM by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by itguysrule
The Palestinians are apparently still demanding Jerusalem as their capital. I'm sure they know that Israel will NEVER agree to give up Jerusalem. If they don't have Jerusalem they may as well be in Cleveland - there is no point.

Abbas knows that Obama has to veto this action in the Security Council or he will have no chance in 2012. Abbas is doing this to embarrass and isolate both the US and Israel. This is the action of someone who has no interest in negotiations (regardless of what he says) and thinks he can eventually get everything he wants while giving up nothing.

I expect the reaction from Israel to be very negative - they may even abandon the Oslo accords. They will have no incentive to negotiate anything with the Palestinians after this action. The UN will be more against Israel than ever but it is so toothless that nothing will happen especially without the US to do all of the heavy lifting.

I am not sure what the reaction from Obama will be because his is so unpredictable. In any event I see whatever little bit of progress has been achieved over the last 10 or 20 years going out the window.

Well whatever will be, will be. I just feel sorry for all the people that live in that region because hell is coming to breakfast and theres nowhere people are going to be able to hide except maybe in Petra when TSHTF.

I can't help but feeling like we are living in prophecies of Zecharia and Ezekiel, because it damn sure appears to be where this train is heading and we can't derail it. We all have a front row seat to a part of history none of us are going to wish we ever saw.

And yes i'm in agreement over Israel rejecting the Oslo Accords, ambassadors being recalled and Israel calling up its reserve armies are pretty damning evidence that something colassal is about to happen that hasn't been seen in an age. I'm almost half expecting them to pull out the Ark of the Covenant and go to war

, they probably got it hid somewhere if it still even exists.

reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 11:03 AM by IsraeliGuy

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Actually, Gaza getting its own statehood is exactly what the palestinians need. Once it gains statehood, it gives NATO a reason to kick Hamas out of Gaza and free the country from terrorist control. That is EXACTLY what Gaza needs.

When the argument fits, all of a sudden people seem to throw NATO over to other countries. Simply amazing considering the mess ATS has been since NATO entered Libya.

What's more amazing is how you lot fail to take into account the consequences of an independent Palestine under Hamas, only to shout YEAH END THIS UNFAIR TREATMENT OF PALESTINIANS. This is really silly.

reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 01:39 PM by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Actually, Gaza getting its own statehood is exactly what the palestinians need. Once it gains statehood, it gives NATO a reason to kick Hamas out of Gaza and free the country from terrorist control. That is EXACTLY what Gaza needs.

When the argument fits, all of a sudden people seem to throw NATO over to other countries. Simply amazing considering the mess ATS has been since NATO entered Libya.

What's more amazing is how you lot fail to take into account the consequences of an independent Palestine under Hamas, only to shout YEAH END THIS UNFAIR TREATMENT OF PALESTINIANS. This is really silly.

I did not in any way condone a Palestinian Statehood under control of Hamas, my comment was to grant them their statehood and then show Hamas the front door.

reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 07:12 PM by IsraeliGuy

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I did not in any way condone a Palestinian Statehood under control of Hamas, my comment was to grant them their statehood and then show Hamas the front door.

How exactly are you going to show Hamas the front door? Sending in NATO forces? I think many would disagree.

They have embedded themselves onto the public.

Just do the thinking.. If they were 'allowed' to embed in the population as far as to hide weaponry in public buildings and shooting from UN funded schools, they will be 'allowed' to get re-elected for years to no end. They are a very problematic factor that will not simply vanish to thin air.

This is why I ask what is so important in achieving statehood as long as they are under Hamas? Why not work to get Hamas out, SOMEHOW, then worry about statehood which will be supported by US so no worries about a veto there.

It's simply illogical to rush this statehood bid and not to think forwards at the consequences.

reply posted on 17-9-2011 @ 07:20 PM by jonnywhite

reply to post by -W1LL

Well, I'll be surprised if Hamas, a known terrorist group, is given any love at the UN.

They should be denied even a name 100% until they decide to stop being terrorists.

Basically, if this all goes through and they become a nation of sorts, then all bets are off on the UN. Far as I'm concerned, the UN has never been our friend. But this is a line in the sand.

If this line is crossed, the UN can't say they're for peace anymore.

If you have any doubts, check this out: