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Capitalism is slavery

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posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by filosophia
 


Capitalism leads to corporatism. You can't have one without the other.


Is corporatism springing up in Hong Kong, the the only place in the world resembling capitalism? Go get the facts and come back. Answer the question. The idea that capitalism leads to corporatism and fascism are simply something you're making up. How obvious can it get that socialism has been a stronger force than capitalism, ever since about the time where the Federal Reserve took power?

And why does the word "corporatism" exist? Everyone should know through the Nazi party that the merger of state and the corporation is actually called "fascism". Most people in the USA wish to live in denial, thats why. I'm sorry but there is corporatism in the USA but the word for that is actually fascism. And no, capitalism absolutely does not lead to fascism.

What happened for Hilter to rise to power? A feeling of powerlessness among the population of Germany made that happen. If Germany adopted the principles of capitalism instead of fascism, then they could have thrived instead of self-destructing during World War II.

Japan was forced into a capitalist sort of system after World War II. Is fascism emerging in Japan more than oh say... France? France... who happily sacrificed sovereignty to the EU, who enslave their population as subjects with the subjects laughably thanking them for it.

The facts speak for them self. And no, there is nothing to suggest free-market economics leads to corporate economics. Rather, there is something that suggests a pro-regulation democracy like what we have now leads to fascism (what you for reasons of self-delusion call corporatism or capitalism).
edit on 16-9-2011 by seachange because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


Many people agree to some extent but have internalized capitalist ideology and cannot really think outside the box. They simply think that with a few "fixes" to capitalism it will be alright and that it is the people not the system that makes it bad (and turn to corporatism). In reality, it is the people AND the system. I know it is sort of tautological to say but it is true.

On top of that we have a monetary system that echoes capitalist ideology. Money is intentionally scarce and promotes competition. (Capitalism is about competition not cooperation.) More for me is less for you. Our monetary system is also debt created and interest bearing...meaning we desire the accumulation of wealth and not a constant flow of wealth. In a scarce system this leads to massive inequality where very few people own the vast majority of wealth (monetary and how they apply it...wealth isnt just money I know but try being a billionaire without being wealthy!) The U.S. despite being the wealthiest "democratic" nation also happens to have the most poverty out of the other "democratic" nations.

There is a currency that actually promotes cooperation in society rather than competition as well making the accumulation of money undesirable (much like material items were burdensome for nomadic people). Silvio Gesell called it "Free Money" because it had a negative interest attached to it (demurrage). Therefore overtime it would lose its value...promoting quick spending which stimulated the economy. It has been successfully tested but was shut down due to a threatened central bank. Look it up yourself.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 06:46 PM
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You are free to be a slave or you are free to die. Those are your two choices.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


What you're saying is that socialism or communism... a system of slavery... will make me more free. The main ideas of capitalism are private property ownership and a low-regulation economy. Explain how you seizing my property and turning me into a wage slave of yours is going to make me more free. I look forward to your response. I've told you why you're wrong in a previous post. But now I'm asking you to show how you're right that we need socialism or communism (a system of slavery) to get freedom.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by constantwonder
 


I didn't suggest anything, and btw capitalism is also failing in case you didn't notice.

reply to post by Evanzsayz
 


That is the biggest bunch of bull I have read on this site today. If you gonna be good at something I guess you should go all out

edit on 16-9-2011 by LDragonFire because: (no reason given)


Yes you didn't offer an alternative that's why I asked what you suggest....

Capitalism is not failing it has evolved into a short order form of corporatism...


Corporatism, also known as corporativism, is a system of economic, political, or social organization that involves division of the people of society into corporate groups, such as agricultural, business, ethnic, labor, military, patronage, or scientific affiliations, on the basis of common interests


With government tentacles infecting everything... I'm not disagreeing with your statement only saying what is happening now is not true capitalism it's perverted and controlled by TPTB.

It's just hard to understand why you just point out problems without mentioning a solution... Just like everyone else that's just letting the world fall apart. Your more than happy to point it out but not so interested in fixing any of it... This may not be true about you but without any type of idea on change or ways to fix it, it's hard to see you in a different light.

Problems need solutions not everyone pointing out the obvious and waiting for some knight in shining armor to save us. This isn't a fairytale. No one will help us if we don't help ourselves.

I'm not trying to be rude just saying.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by NadaCambia
Capitalism is an evil system for evil people. You're an evil person.


The most capitalist place in the world is Hong Kong. Tell me about the terrible people that reside there. Tell me how many people are starving in the streets. It must be half the population or more going by what you say. Oh, whats that, there is nobody starving to death in Hong Kong? Oh... well I hope inconvenient facts don't get in the way of your convictions to dedicate your life to hating the thing that seems to stop starvation entirely.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 07:09 PM
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To the OP, I dont know if you have seen this but its very enlightening.


THE STORY OF YOUR ENSLAVEMENT

www.youtube.com...


edit on 16-9-2011 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


If you dont have money you cannot survive. Your forced into slavery to live whats so bull about it that its the truth?



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 02:50 AM
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Originally posted by CriticalCK

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by CriticalCK
There can be no doubt that the best economic system is the one that increases the population's prosperity most effectively. Worshipping pure capitalism puts the priority of growth above that of welfare.

.


WHAT!?!?!?

Ick, I just puked in my mouth like a whole gallon.

You mean to tell me that measuring humanities progress by prosperity and well being is a good idea ???



No? You are confused. I am not talking about humanities progress. If I was, I would put many things before prosperity, like giving you decent education.
I am talking about economic systems. The reasoning is simple. People work to make a living, to gain prosperity. The less they get for the same amount of work the closer their economic dependence resembles slavery.



I was kidding, I am trying to extenuate how crazy and sick the anti humans sound.
edit on 17-9-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:00 AM
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The problem with global capitalism, is that it relies on constant consumption and the promotion of desirables you may need to consume in the future. Our economies are judged on the ability to consume. The problem with constant consumption is that it is wasteful and uses up finite resources and when people no longer have the disposable income to support the consumption, the system fails.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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It never fails to amuse me that I am expected to accept that the system commonly referred to as capitalism is "not representative of real capitalism" because it doesn't adhere to some academics definition of the term, while simultaneously scoffing at the claim that the system commonly referred to as communism "isn't real communism" because it doesn't adhere to some academic's definition of the term.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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here are my thoughts:


capitalism took off last few hundred years because the common people thought they were rejecting monarchy and the financial/emotional oppression


people bought into the idea that they/their family could all be their own "little king"

its become obvious that very few can rise to the very top..and once you reach a certain level...natural greed and fear as well as outright conspiratorial nature of things...that the end game of capitalism is Oligopoly and Monopoly


hence we had trust busters, break up of the bells, steel bust up/standard oil bust ups, etc over time...and of course it doesn't do much as the same families own these industries still

bottom lie is as george carlin said....the only way to believe in the American Dream nowadays..is to be ASLEEP

thats because the forces mentioned above...as well as rigged financial and political system, do all they can to oppress smaller and poorer business. Inflation is also stripping your wealth the whole time let alone the 100s of taxes

so keep on believing in the dream...its a small club and you aint in the big club

over time capitalism starts to feel like slavery as one becomes a mouse on the wheel with no ability to escape



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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A quick comment...

Please, understand that you are not a slave to just capitalism.

Well, not in the sense that you are instead a slave to a system that's much older...well over 10,000 years old.
We locked up our food so that we could 'control it'...so there were more people, so we needed to 'control' more land...and in turn we began controlling people.

Capitalism is just the latest fad in this system.
The vast majority of all economic, social, ecological, political, religious, etc. ideas in this system are all Utopian.
I know, I know...how the hell could it be 'Utopian' with all these problems?

The problem is that these are all systems that would work perfectly...if people were perfect. Thus, it is a Utopian ideal. We all know this and we accept this...it's no surprise - it's what we're taught.
But people are people...if we were perfect then we would cease to be human.

This system is designed to keep us in control...and therefore we are belittled, taught we are inherently flawed (fall of man, karma, life as suffering, etc.), the since our problems are elsewhere then our solution are also elsewhere - that we can do nothing alone but if we are to do anything we have to do it ourselves.
And so trying to blame Capitalism alone is another symptom of the system.

Look...we're all products of it...no one is exempt.
But we can fix it.
All we need to do is to see things as they are, and to help others to do the same.
To be aware of what we assume and take for granted, as best we can...and to help others to do the same.
To take the good from what we have now and what came before, and to make our own way as sustainably as possible.
Every single one of us has that capacity to do these things...but willingness is the key.


Most of you all are on the right track...but take it deeper.

Skip the details and look at the ideas.


Take care, all!
Joe



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by seachange
reply to post by LDragonFire
 


What you're saying is that socialism or communism... a system of slavery... will make me more free. The main ideas of capitalism are private property ownership and a low-regulation economy. Explain how you seizing my property and turning me into a wage slave of yours is going to make me more free. I look forward to your response. I've told you why you're wrong in a previous post. But now I'm asking you to show how you're right that we need socialism or communism (a system of slavery) to get freedom.


I am very glad to hear this from you, as on another thread I had a slightly different impression.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 06:30 PM
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The best kind of slave to have is one who truly thinks he is free. You all keep each other in check...thus taskmasters, chains, and whips are no longer needed. When one starts complaining simply shut them up with comparison and contrast to poor nations that have it worst and chastise them for lack of patriotism. Callem anti-american, lazy etc.

While few in number, the Rulers are indeed very smart. However also, while few in number there are some of us actually smarter than the ones that call themselves rulers. We know you will eventually collapse yourselves just as you always have and we will not need to lift a finger.

edit on 19-9-2011 by superluminal11 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-9-2011 by superluminal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by MrOysterhead
With Capitalism you have the opportunity to start your own business, compete in the market place and maybe...if you are very lucky and work very hard....you will have built a big corporation.

With Slavery...you have NO opportunity.

So no, they arent the same thing.


The problem, though, is that they've managed to successfully brainwash virtually all of you into believing that you can become a corporate oligarch yourselves. The Fortune 500 is just that; 500. How many people are there on this planet, now? I'm sure you can work out the rest.

The whole thing is a lie.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by seachange
The most capitalist place in the world is Hong Kong. Tell me about the terrible people that reside there. Tell me how many people are starving in the streets.


Here's a link about hong kongs homeless:

Urban poor in Hong Kong



In early 1995 it was estimated that some 181,000 households (495,000 persons) were inadequately housed.

By June 1998 this had fallen to 170,00 households (437,000 persons). The term "adequately housed" refers to persons living in squatter areas on government land, in temporary housing, in cottage areas, in self contained flats, in rooftop structures, or in shared accommodation in the private sector.

The government's policy is to build 50,000 flats a year in the public sector and to form land and the necessary infrastructure to meet the long term demand of about 35,000 private flats a year.

In 1998, about 2.2 million people (33% of the population) were living in public housing estates with a total stock of about 656,000 flats. The government acknowledges that, for various reasons, some persons in Hong Kong have "either fallen through the safety nets or, as a matter of choice, have ended up living on the streets. "


Yes there is poverty and since it is such a capitalist place and capitalism is so great the government only had to house 33% of the population in public housing estates. /sarcasm



edit on 19-9-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by LDragonFire
 


It is easy for anyone to be against something, so OP, what are you for?

No I am not a capitalist nor am I a corporatist or Socialist. By this point you are probably thinking, so then what the hell are you? Well to put it in simple terms; a Distributist. Do not laugh there is such a thing, trust me. It is the idea that we, as individuals/families, should own our private means of production. All private works should be owned by the lowest, simplest unit. Whether that is the individual plumber who has his tools, the family bakery, or the co-op run by the local townsfolk. All corporations, trusts, multi-chain businesses are a threat to the liberty and stability of society.

Capitalism and Socialism, Ludwig von Mises and Karl Marx, two sides to the same coin; what have they contributed to the community on a non-material level? Nothing and they never can contribute anything. Sure capitalism can spinout more stuff than anything else but we never factor in the consequences such as environmental degradation, corruption, greed, exploitation, and dehumanization. Socialism… well that is worse, it eliminates everything about the individual and the community, its ardent beliefs in egalitarianism above all else distorts, destroys, and perverts everything it touches until we are all equal under the same tent of master-and-slave that we were before just now we have nothing to call our own, nothing on this earth to show our creative and imaginative spirit with.

So, OP, we share many of the same hostilities towards Capitalism but I am quite sure we differ on how to approach a new system. I want to abandon the entire failed project of the last 223 years and try something which has worked before, worked towards rising up the community and blowing a hole in the concentration of wealth

"Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists." – G.K. Chesterton



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by NadaCambia

Originally posted by MrOysterhead
reply to post by NadaCambia
 


I have met more people in their 20s who could retire by 30 in these forums than anywhere else in life.

What type of business do you own that you know you will continue to profit at your current pace so you can retire in 8 years?

Sounds to me like you should be waving the capitalism flag higher than most.


I run a graphic design business. Within 3 years I will have hundreds of clients and comfortably make 6 figures a year.

And why do you think I should be waving the flag of Capitalism? i'd be much happier with a basic home with basic goods and basic food.

Capitalism will always be unfair. If not for me, my entire family would be struggling to eat and in debt. They're good bloody people who work much harder than I do.

Capitalists are evil people. I'm not a Capitalist, I'm taking money off the Capitalist scum plate and doing genuine good with it.

Capitalists can jump infront of a bus.


Are colors really that black and white in your world?

And being a business owner, your a hypocrite. Go live off the land in Australia or somthing. You would obviously be happier.



posted on Sep, 19 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
We Americans are raised to believe that capitalism is good and needed to insure our freedoms. I think this is pure propaganda and is untrue. I think capitalism was a product of the old world monarch system, just relabeled and packaged for the masses. Capitalism is thousands of years old and slavery walks hand in hand with it. I wonder if capitalism disappeared from the Earth would slavery and prostitution still exist?


Well there will always be a woman or two in the village that will provide services for anything of value whatever the economy. And there are many places were slavery goes on today for reasons that are not market driven.




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