Capitalism is slavery

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Ok dear Op...what alternative do you offer?

I am a capitalist. I cut firewood to sell...someone sees my sign by the road...they stop or call my phone number and we make a deal...an aggreement. I sell them firewood and they pay me with money.

I do the same thing with goats, hogs and piglets, tomatoes if I have any after the drought, eggs and chickens...capitalism... pretty simple really.

I also work for a living so I can by the things I want and need... my wife does likewise. Capitalism has provided me through my hard work and efforts a home, a farm on 50 acres, a quaint place at the NC coast... an education for all of our children, and it has allowed me...not some program at work or social security...but allowed me and my wife.. to save and invest for our retirement.. which if our investments continue to grow as they did last year...even in this economy...we will retire millionaires at 62.

I don't think you can do that with socialism... communism ? Which -ism do you prefer? What process or socio-economic-political process do you advise and prefer?

And provide real life examples..not some utopian philosphy and theory that looks good on paper but will never see the light of day.

Lastly, no...I am not priviledged...my family parents grew up dirt poor during the last Depression...they too worked hard and are now comfortably retired. Me...15 years ago, i was sleeping in a horse barn and going through a divorce...

Funny what a little hard work and sacrifice will reward an individual.

Wrong and wrong again. The nature of the Capitalist beast is that for the fortunate few to enjoy the luxurious lifestyle you and they enjoy, the majority must suffer.

You might have worked hard, I have no doubt, but others cannot do what you've done. There are few winners, but mainly losers. There's people with more work ethic and intelligence than you, who go through their life living in abject poverty through no fault of their own. You got lucky, and your fortunes come at the cost of others being oppressed. Well done.

If you want to ignore this blatant reality, that's on you.

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by MrOysterhead

Originally posted by Aggie Man
The word capitalism says it all. What does it mean to capitalize? It means to take advantage of. Gee, I wonder who is being taken advantage of under a capitalistic system?

to capitalism

to the OP

edit on 15-9-2011 by Aggie Man because: (no reason given)

that is exactly right....it means to CAPITALIZE on the chance you are given.

Yes, at the expense of someone else. That in and of itself is not too harmful; however, over time the system becomes more of a situation where those that capitalize begin to over capitalize (by taking in much more $ than than they are putting back into the system). That system creates a few "haves" and many "have nots". Long term, that system is unsustainable.

before capitalism the distance between the "haves" and the "have nots" was far greater. am i wrong?

go back and look at history and you will see that those who "had" were far fewer than those who "had not".

capitalism creates a middle class

Capitalism is not slavery. The free enterprise system allows for any person (who is willing to put effort into it) to become anything they aspire to be.

en.wikipedia.org...


Communism, and socialism are both enslavers of any people.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by filosophia

 

Capitalism leads to corporatism. You can't have one without the other.

Yet another person trying to win people over to their side with information that they only think they know. Seriously, I'm only trying to help you not look (more) foolish. Please, everyone, stop posting about capitalism until you have actually read what it is and how it differs from other economic systems. Not what you think it is, but what it actually, factually is.

/TOA

reply to post by LDragonFire


Compared to the rest of Human history, under Capitalism we all live like Kings.

Capitalism is not slavery.

Usury is.

If capitalism is slavery, then I'm a slave with a great life.

I own my own home and vacation home. I've raised a family that has excelled thanks to the free public education and now one child is gainfully employed as an engineer and the other is in a Phd program.

I have no debt and a great life. I travel, have excess money to spend on my toys. I have no trouble purchasing food and beverages of my choice. I can travel anywhere I want.

How exactly is this slavery holding me back?

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by filosophia

 

Capitalism leads to corporatism. You can't have one without the other.

Yet another person trying to win people over to their side with information that they only think they know. Seriously, I'm only trying to help you not look (more) foolish. Please, everyone, stop posting about capitalism until you have actually read what it is and how it differs from other economic systems. Not what you think it is, but what it actually, factually is.

/TOA

To be fair, in each example of human nations trying to implement capitalism, it has led to corporatism. That is, so far, a 100% track record. I'm not saying it's impossible but difficult. In order to prevent capitalism from becoming corporatism, you need to impose regulations and strict rules... at which point you cease to be a capitalist entity.

Slaves were given a place to live.

Free roof over their heads.



American's don't even have a home. Thus never will have productivity.

reply to post by Pervius


I have a home. By most of the World's population it's considered a mansion. By the American slaves viewpoint it's an average 4bdrm home. My masters treat me well.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

Compared to the rest of Human history, under Capitalism we all live like Kings.

Capitalism is not slavery.

Usury is.

I couldn't agree more

Sums it up well

Originally posted by Pervius
Slaves were given a place to live.

Free roof over their heads.



American's don't even have a home. Thus never will have productivity.

I hope you are joking.

If not you are delusional.

You are forced to conform to there expectation

OP, prior to making such a stand, it would benefit you to brush up on homonyms, and/or proofread. It provides credibility to your positiion for both those who agree and disagree.

I prefer to operate on the Creative plane rather than the Competitive one, however the OP does not offer a replacement solution. What are our alternatives? Monarchy - Dictatorship - Socialism - Communism

On their faces, they are essentially the same, but I prefer what we have over those.

Make the best of what you have....or make the change.

reply to post by NadaCambia


Who did I oppress? I oppress people because i work 45-50 hours a week at my job...then come home to my farm and feed my animals and raise crops to eat and a little extra to sell...and cut wood to burn and sell...Oppress? Who am I oppressing? Who am I taking advantage of?

Even if you lived free from taxes, free from all demands of modern society...and you lived simply off the land, fed yourself, ...you would be working sunup to sundown just to survive...ask any homesteader or perhaps read a few history books or diaries or letters of homesteaders in their own words.

I am not as smart as some...but anybody could do what I have done. It does take hard work, some self effort at education, some scrimping and saving.... lots of cheap meals...being frugal... I just walked in from working on my barn...getting ready for winter, and the wood I used to subdivide stalls I didn't buy...I used shipping crates and pallets that were to be taken to the dump.

Again...I ask the question...What alternative do you offer? What -ism do you subscribe to if not capitalism?

Sounds to me like someone is having a pity party and it is everyone else's fault that you have not succeeded in life.

Wrong and wrong again. The nature of the Capitalist beast is that for the fortunate few to enjoy the luxurious lifestyle you and they enjoy, the majority must suffer.

reply to post by NadaCambia


Right like that EVIL writter of the Harry Potter books eh! You know the one who was on welfare and going down till she got her books published and EVIL capitalism took her from the poor house to wealth.......

What an EVIL mean woman making so many people suffer, im sure she HATES capitalism......im sure shes scorned hundreds of thousands, destroying their lives so she can like the good life......

Man people are stupid...........

Ive found that most of those who hate capitalism are people who are lazy.

I would not call the system we live in slavery, just as with communism or socialism you are not a slave either.

I would say though that no-one in our system is truly independent.

They day your born, your either dependent on the private sector or public sector for your well being.

If you start up your own business, you are dependent on your workers and customers for your well being.

You are not allowed to go out and raise farm animals nor grow a garden without paying taxes to the government, or leasing land and paying it to someone in the private sector.

If I want to build a home in the wild some where in the US, then the government will kick you off, or if its someones land their not using, they will kick you off.

You are a slave in that sense to the system and never truly free.

So, whenever I hear some people say, don't be dependent or a slave to the government, I laugh at them and tell them that they are already a slave and dependent on this system for their existence and are not truly free, and usually shuts them up.

yeah i would say for those tens of millions in this country living on a government check are

slaves compared to the rest of those capitalists who live a better life than all those slaves.

without money your a slave

Funny thread.

Many people in this thread are still living under the delusion that the United States practices capitalism. Furthermore, they then defend the disgusting and fatally flawed system we live under.

The OP may have been grossly incorrect and confused about economic systems. However, so are most people. It's nothing to be ashamed of, really. It's a big club.

If you only learn one thing today let it be this. The US, nor ANYONE ELSE practices anything even resembling capitalism. Can we at least get that straight?

Originally posted by METACOMET
Funny thread.

Many people in this thread are still living under the delusion that the United States practices capitalism. Furthermore, they then defend the disgusting and fatally flawed system we live under.

The OP may have been grossly incorrect and confused about economic systems. However, so are most people. It's nothing to be ashamed of, really. It's a big club.

If you only learn one thing today let it be this. The US, nor ANYONE ELSE practices anything even resembling capitalism. Can we at least get that straight?

I hear ya. But that isnt the topic.

In a nutshell the OP is saying that working a job for a corporation is like being a slave.

I'm not going to bother with reading through the several pages of replies and discussion to this post, but I do wish to point out a few observations and fallacies to the OP - first, the observations and then the fallacies.

Pissing in a cup to prove yourself worthy is not freedom.

Is there something to hide? With the economy being as bad as it is and jobs becoming more and more difficult to acquire, I'd piss in my own coffee cup if it meant getting hired (of course, I wouldn't drink from that cup anymore though).

You have the freedom of choice, to either piss in that cup and get the job or to not piss in the cup and go seeking a job elsewhere where you won't be asked to piss in a cup. With that freedom of choice, there are no chains of slavery.

I don't think one good person has risen to the heights of business, as the term dog eats dog is well known and experienced by everyone.

Isn't that called "stereotyping"? Personally, I am the president of a restaurant, I own a real estate investment company and a website development company. I like to think of myself as a good person, and I know for a fact that I have never been abusive of others in order to reach the "heights of business" that I have attained.

Capitalism has lead to mega corporations, these corporations have destroyed the mom and pop business and the small family farms.

Even the mom and pop businesses and the family farms operate for the purpose of realizing a profit. In doing so, they can grow their operations so that they can employ others who require employment in order to make better lives for themselves and to pay their bills.

We have seen time and time again, people that spend there entire lives working only to see there retirement lost or stolen.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to blame the losses of these people on either (1) their own errors in judgement or (2) the individuals that stole their retirement funds from them? It is unfair to blame a system of economic growth for the errors of individuals.

Society thrived for thousands of years without capitalism and things were good (native American civilization pre 1900).

If memory serves me correctly (and it does), didn't the Native Americans (pre-1900) trade furs, stoneware, gold and even tracking services for the wares, products and services of others? Though there was no "coin" in many of these transactions, there was an exchange of one thing of value for another thing of presumed comparable value. And that is capitalism.

Bear in mind that without capitalism there would be no incentive to work under the direction of others with sound ideas for improvement of society. As such, we wouldn't be as advanced in education, technology, medicine or any other thing that is necessary for the betterment of life. After all, why should a man with the idea to build a device such as a cancer erradication machine build such a machine with his own sweat and tears without just reward for doing so?

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

Who did I oppress? I oppress people because i work 45-50 hours a week at my job...then come home to my farm and feed my animals and raise crops to eat and a little extra to sell...and cut wood to burn and sell...Oppress? Who am I oppressing? Who am I taking advantage of?

Even if you lived free from taxes, free from all demands of modern society...and you lived simply off the land, fed yourself, ...you would be working sunup to sundown just to survive...ask any homesteader or perhaps read a few history books or diaries or letters of homesteaders in their own words.

I am not as smart as some...but anybody could do what I have done. It does take hard work, some self effort at education, some scrimping and saving.... lots of cheap meals...being frugal... I just walked in from working on my barn...getting ready for winter, and the wood I used to subdivide stalls I didn't buy...I used shipping crates and pallets that were to be taken to the dump.

Again...I ask the question...What alternative do you offer? What -ism do you subscribe to if not capitalism?

Sounds to me like someone is having a pity party and it is everyone else's fault that you have not succeeded in life.

I haven't succeeded... how'd you figure that? By the sounds of it I make more money than you and do half the work. I'm only 22 and could retire at 30, if I wanted. Is being a failure a prerequisite for disliking Capitalism?

The difference between you and I is that I have no ego. I realise that I'm lucky, nothing more.

And it's our western lifestyle that oppresses others. Every material possession and advanced assets we enjoy as a culture and society comes at a great cost, the suffering of others, some at home, most in strange lands across the other side of the world.

The convenience of all we have comes at the dis convenience of every one else. Is the world starving because other people are just lazy communists or is it because the behemoth that is Western Capitalism forces them into a box.

Wealth isn't infinite, there's only so much of it. As I say, winners and loses. 5% of us will win, 20% will do alright, but most will lose. That won't change under Capitalism. If you want to pretend 75% are just lazy that's your prerogative. Whether it's indirect or direct, our success and good fortunes oppress others.

I don't earn or deserve most of what I'm fortunate to have. I could train the vast majority of people on here, regardless of age or experience or even work ethic, to do what I do in less than 100 hours. I could probably hand over my business to someone with no education who's never worked a day in their lives, right now, and they'd be successful financially.

I'm an Anarchist(Libertarian socialist)