Obama hasn't filed "Jobs Act," Republican files his own! What happened to "pass this now?"

Kids, kids these stimulus bills have been nothing more then pay offs and funding for criminal conduct by the administration! Marge you are ignoring the cost of unionized American labor. For such a small segment of the population they receive a disproportionate amount of benefits these days. Even if a business takes a loss the employees still get their pay & perks and will ask for more. And lets not forget that the retired workers still are getting taken care of too. Now as this is all in a contract it must be. The American worker expects alot more then is realistic. It really boils down to what the administration claimed during the elections and the realities once in power became different from what the voters thought.

it's common practice not to introduce a bill unless you feel you have the votes to pass it. failed bills are very tought to overcome politically.

reply to post by marg6043

I don't think you understand, most products we consume are made outside of the US on countries that have no problem with slave labor, when the product comes to the US is all profits

do you wonder why no one makes TVs or radios in the US anymore? It costs employers TOO MUCH!
If I didn't have to pay 15% payroll tax, health insurance premiums that go up 20% each year, liability insurance to defend claims that have no merit, taxes on my fuel, taxes on my vehicles, taxes on my utilities, and taxes on my hedging for commodities and profits, I might be able to lower prices, increase wages and still make a decent profit.

If you are so concerned about foreign competition, do not shop at Wal Mart. Shop at farmers' markets, and "buy local."
Who says we have to "consume" three TVs per household, or a multi-media/smart cell for every kid, or half of the other crap we buy just to buy it.

Do you really NEED to be able to text from the grocery or restaurant? Do you really need to have a cell at all?

We have become obsessed with consumption; don't try to blame it on the entrepreneurs, foreign or not, who feed of off your imaginary "needs."

there is no product in creation that "is all profit" when it comes to the US. Whether it's my taco stand, or Taco Bell's, what is the problem with ANY business trying to be competitive and make a profit?

Maybe you would prefer that the government just provide for all our needs and give us what they decide for us?

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
it's common practice not to introduce a bill unless you feel you have the votes to pass it. failed bills are very tought to overcome politically.

Unfortunately, Obama has had 9 months to get the outline of the"plan" to his party, and to wring the votes out of the wary. You don't pathetically demand "pass this Bill now" before it's reduced to writing, while you're on your pre-election campaign tour, or in front of a pro-union labor entourage in the Rose Garden.

Grand-standing is not leadership. It is certainly not legislating.
(Don't say the executive can't legislate; we all know how a president who really wants his policies enacted, can push them into a bill with sponsors and support. FDR wasn't a legislator, nor was LBJ, but THEY got THEIR bills passed).

In reality, Obama doesn't want this bill passed. He wants its defeat to become an excuse to trash his opposition in 2012.

jw

Originally posted by hangedman13
Even if a business takes a loss the employees still get their pay & perks and will ask for more.

It depends the kind of business most small businesses are doing more for less, meaning they are not hiring,, when it comes to big businesses profits are priority not the well being of the employees.

That is why the middle class is almost none existent and is a growing working poor that is replacing the working class, they get to work for less and no benefits and still needs government assistance, people are ignoring that this trend is taking place.

Still those lucky enough to belong to unions are the ones that gets the benefits guarantee, but they also are paying the most when it comes to taxes.

The wealthiest gets to enjoy tax brakes, the working poor get government benefits and the middle class pay the most.

Take away unions and workers right like big businesses will love to do and you will have nothing but working poor, working for food

What people wants for American to become? another China, Pakitans or India? where is slave labor and you can hire for pennies on the dollars, then where the crap the American companies produce in those countries are going to go?

US is supposed to be a nation of consumers but now is a nation of consumers on credit card debt, soon as the working poor keeps growing I guess the rich will have to pay for the benefits of the poor so they can keep spending, right?

By then Tax brakes will matter anymore just like it doesn't matter today, because even with all the tax brakes the big companies made today they still are moving oversea.

Out Foxing Amerikkka


The good news if you look at the cute little GOP elephant on Foxs website under Scott Trade section to the right you will see they have changed the pentagrams back to 1 point up and 2 points down.

As we move forward in this time line the leaders seem to be getting smaller than the little people they rule over.

You do realize they put Ron Paul out there for entertainment and he is not some Rogue person against the New World Order that is for the citizens.

In Freemasonry its called Riding the Goat or jocular euphemism, embraced by many freemasons.

I just love playwrights

Originally posted by jdub297
If you are so concerned about foreign competition, do not shop at Wal Mart. Shop at farmers' markets, and "buy local."
.

Actually, I don't I have not been In Wal-mart in years, and yes I support local growers as I am an organic consumer. How about you.

Do you really NEED to be able to text from the grocery or restaurant? Do you really need to have a cell at all?

Actually I don't even know how to tex at all and I don't even have Internet in my phone, to me is nothing but an overprice crap. How about you.

We have become obsessed with consumption; don't try to blame it on the entrepreneurs, foreign or not, who feed of off your imaginary "needs."

On that I agree, America consumerism is becoming its downfall as the working poor keeps growing somebody will have to support their government benefits, so they can keep spending while on welfare pay by those that still have a meaningful job that pays enough this days. Something that you don't seem to see or understand.

More than half of the nations tax payers do not pay taxes at all, but they get government benefits while the other half pay most of the taxes, but the sad thing is that that other half of working poor is growing by the minute and will overwhelm the other half.

there is no product in creation that "is all profit" when it comes to the US. Whether it's my taco stand, or Taco Bell's, what is the problem with ANY business trying to be competitive and make a profit?

Very soon at the rate of unemployment in the nation no even the taco stand will be able keep open anymore, perhaps you should take a walk on any small town in America like I live in one and see how many businesses are not longer supporting the economies, we in my neck of the woods lost 6 major production lines companies in less than 10 years, where do you thing the people that used to be part of the middle class is working now as working poor, yes in Wal-mart, work there and buy there, corporate monopoly, I guess that is what you will love to see all over the US, guess what that is what is happening all over the US right now.

Maybe you would prefer that the government just provide for all our needs and give us what they decide for us?

Wake up my friend that is exactly what is happening right now in American US government is the biggest employer the biggest payer of working class poor benefits and is still growing because America doesn't have anymore a production base that can feed a middle class.

Lo and behold you are either very young or history failed you or just while trying to bicker with me are ignoring all the facts in front of you of what is going on in this nation.

edit on 16-9-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by jdub297


Socialism doesn't work.
Obama needs to go back to college. Try for an MBA. He could learn about free market
capitalism and how it creates jobs.
--------
The economics didn't work out so well at Solyndra.

reply to post by jdub297


You still don't get it, Obama is a corporate whore no a socialist if you believe that he would have been able to tax bailed out big banks when big banks runs the governmetn that is the biggest hoax been played on the gullible american this days, no Republican will allow this to happen, yes Obama try just like he is trying to raise taxes on the rich and guess what he also knows as a corporate whore that Republicans will never allow this, but people will see it as he trying to help.

Anybody that thinks Obama is socialist is falling for the very well concoted propganda.

America corporate run government is killing this nation and people doesn't get it.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Actually US is a Socialized democracy where rather than the Government control of productions and goods, special interest and corporations owns and runs the American Government.

reply to post by jdub297


Not only is Texas Representative Louie Gohmert is a genius, contrary to the Democrats, he is trying to help out the poor. Democrats foolishly perceive the corporate income tax as a tax on the rich. That is absolutely contradictory to basic rules of business. What businesses do is pass their costs onto the consumer. Not just some of them, but all of them, all of the time. Democrats want us to believe that corporations pass every single last dime worth of their expenses into the price of their product, but then when it comes to corporate income tax they will have a change of heart for charity reasons and take that money from their profit columns and simply make less money.

I suggest Democrats and people who don't understand principles of free-market economics take a look at the historic chart of corporate profits and compare that to the chart of corporate taxation. There is no correlation there for a reason... because companies costs are passed down to the consumer! This is a fact.

A corporate tax is almost a perfect flat tax on consumption. Where it goes wrong is the fact that corporations can and will simply move overseas with a high corporate tax rate. Therefore, with a low corporate tax rate what happens is corporations will move into America without the tax. And yes, that works to create productive jobs.

The kinds of jobs Obama wishes to create are the very definition of unproductive jobs. The kind of jobs corporations create are a combination of less unproductive (when they are related to the government), and actually productive (when related to the free marketplace)

I admit the math is complicated, but the idea that corporations pass *all* of their expenses to everyone, including the poor, should be a simple one to understand.

reply to post by seachange


One problem how can you get the working poor to be again a productive working middle class, and be able to get the welfare system? with no base production in the US that will never happen, small businesses can not afford more than the minimum wages, Wal-mart the now private company bigger employer in the nation does not pay to support a middle class they support the working poor, work for them buy from them.

So how can you bring companies that are used to slave labor oversea, that can get away with no paying taxes at all move in and support a working middle class, is not going to happen.

Obama wants to start infrastructure the thing is that the last stimulus didn't do it and this one won't either.

I don't see how the Republican bill will bring production line companies back in the US at all, they have it too good oversea.

It was the Democrats under Clinton that allowed our production companies move oversea with support of the Republicans

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by seachange

 

One problem how can you get the working poor to be again a productive working middle class, and be able to get the welfare system? with no base production in the US that will never happen, small businesses can not afford more than the minimum wages, Wal-mart the now private company bigger employer in the nation does not pay to support a middle class they support the working poor, work for them buy from them.

So how can you bring companies that are used to slave labor oversea, that can get away with no paying taxes at all move in and support a working middle class, is not going to happen.

Corporations will move their headquarters buildings here from overseas which moves back jobs to the US. I agree it wouldn't be a huge number for the reason its not as attractive to produce in the US. How do you get the working poor productive again and back into the middle class? Well, you've got to repeal most business regulations. While its a nice safety feature for a restaurant to have a $10,000 hood, it requirements like that add up very fast and make it impossible for a middle class person to start up a restaurant. In the US businesses all have to jump through a lot of hoops. It prevents middle class people from starting businesses. And it prevents small businesses from growing into larger ones.

Small businesses have always been the primary creator of jobs in the USA. While regulations work to keep the public fooling them self into thinking everything is much safer, sanitary, etc, what actually happens is the licensing and regulation system are such a joke it just does not happen. What does happen instead is the large grow larger by keeping the smaller players down with regulations. What can actually work to prevent slave labor are things like Consumer Reports, the UL, "fair trade" organizations, etc. What people need to do is get together and agree on a voluntary basis to buy things in an ethical way to help the environment and help each other. The only regulations needed are an efficient system of civil lawsuits to help with victim restitution.

The Hong Kong model is a very proven model. In Hong Kong, anybody can set up almost all business types quite easily. And look at the result of that. Hong Kong has a thriving economy that is much better for the people in a state of poverty.

reply to post by seachange


Small businesses will never support a middle working class, small businesses in service sector, like restaurants only can afford to pay minimum wages.

Many big companies that call themselves American base do their production oversea, still their home offices are full of H1B visa workers that are in the tech positions, because no only big companies has been able to get their operations oversea they also has been able to insource foreigners into their headquarters rather than hiring and giving this tech jobs to young educated Americans because they still can have foreigners in the US working for less.

How can they get away with this? and still have the government allowing this? very simple because they can afford to pay lobbyist to buy government regulations.

One thing is big companies and another small businesses, the big multibillion companies are getting away with anything they want, the ones that need more help are those starting businesses but those small businesses can not feed or support a working middle class. Every time we get a small business in our neck of the wood opening their doors it fails in the first year due to no enough support from the public because you can not compete with two Wal-mart in the same town like we have here in my neck of woods after 6 big production companies are gone and most people on welfare.

Sad. actually

I hope you truly understand what I am trying to say.

Hi guys,

I am not sure where the appropriate place for this question would be... Perhaps someone could tell me where to post this query.

I was just wondering if someone could tell me how the "value" of money is set. Is everything set against gold? Suppose all countries on the planet printed millions in cash (equal amounts) - will they devalue against each other and still drive prices up?

Originally posted by marg6043
Actually, I don't I have not been In Wal-mart in years, and yes I support local growers as I am an organic consumer. How about you.

I walk about 1/2 mile to the farmers' market if I'm in town. I grow my own vegetables, but have had to sell off my livestock due to the drought and cost of feed.

Actually I don't even know how to tex at all and I don't even have Internet in my phone, to me is nothing but an overprice crap. How about you.

Although my work has required my use of a mobile phone since 1986, I have yet to use my personal phone for internet access. A former client furnished me an iPhone which I used only for calling and accessing email.

as the working poor keeps growing somebody will have to support their government benefits, so they can keep spending while on welfare

How does expansionof government intrusion into our lives, and into our business help the "working poor?" If we cut down on needless gov't spending, there will be plenty left as a "safety net" for the truly needy. Why do we need a D.C. bureaucracy to dictate what teachers and students in Montgomery or Albequerque do? How do failed HUD redevelopment projects and housing criteria help the "working poor" when devlopers are "gentrifying" failed projects and markets set the standard for construction/location choices? Even the president and the EPA are coming to realize that over-zealous "green" regs and incentives cost more than they help, and harrm more than they're worth.

Google: " "feasiblilty analysis" "social cost of carbon" " to see how this administration is secretly driving up prices of energy, production and commodities to further its "green" agenda without saying it is doing so.

This administration requires and fosters increased dependency upon gov't (i.e., "the working poor") to ensure its control and re-election. Obama WANTS the poverty level to go up and real earnings to decrease.

"Something that you don't seem to see or understand."

more than half of the nations tax payers do not pay taxes at all, but they get government benefits

Don't you ever wonder why? See above.

that other half of working poor is growing by the minute and will overwhelm the other half.

See above.

perhaps you should take a walk on any small town in America like I live in one and see how many businesses are not longer supporting the economies

My ranch is 5 miles fron Lytle, Texas, pop. 2,800. I see the decline every time I buy feed or supplies. My friends in the ranching, farming and business community all tell me the same thing: they are being taxed and regulated out of existence.

The largest boost to the economy came 10 years ago, when Toyota began buying up fallow farmland for its Tundra plant in Bexar County. They increased local employment, growth, land value, development and the wage base. They are non-union and build large trucks. Due to Obama's new CAFE standards and CO2 restrictions, and the EPA's new regulation of vehicle emissions, they are cutting back hours, production and hiring.

guess what that is what is happening all over the US right now.

Thanks Obama. Thanks "progressives."

jw

Maybe you would prefer that the government just provide for all our needs and give us what they decide for us?

Wake up my friend that is exactly what is happening right now in American US government is the biggest employer the biggest payer of working class poor benefits and is still growing because America doesn't have anymore a production base that can feed a middle class.

Lo and behold you are either very young or history failed you or just while trying to bicker with me are ignoring all the facts in front of you of what is going on in this nation.

edit on 16-9-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-9-2011 by jdub297 because: quote

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by links234
Harry Reid submitted the bill in the senate, S.1549 American Jobs Act of 2011 submitted September 13, 2011.

Yup. I do believe it has to be presented to the House, though. Not the senate.

By that line of arguing you'd have to suggest that only representatives can introduce bills and not senators. This is, obviously, incorrect.

The greatest difference seems to be that most of the debate for a bill occurs in the senate before being sent to the house only to be sent back to the senate for final approval to be sent to the president. Rep. Gohmert only asked the clerk if their was a house bill, not a senate bill.

Does the name of the bill, which may be given to Sen. Reid's bill because he was first, really matter? Not really. Do we want to make a big deal out of it because, as one of the OP links stated, Obama is the worst politician ever? Yes, we do want to make it bigger than it really is.

The senate even lays out the process for us here.

CBS news also made a comment about it:

While Gohmert's bill may steal a bit of the spotlight from Mr. Obama's "American Jobs Act," it can't steal the actual name -- there are no House rules prohibiting two different bills from sharing a name. Bills typically have a long, formal name and a short, informal name -- two different pieces of legislation may share either. It would just be confusing.

So...big deal out of nothing, but five pages on ATS. Great.

reply to post by links234


Article I Section 7. All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.

Tomorrow, Obama unveils his proposal to pay for the "jobs" bill.

reply to post by jdub297


Thank you, pretty cut and dry. Nothing unconstitutional about it. Non-issue. I hope I don't hear about it in six months when the question is asked, "What has this administration done that is unconstitutional?"

"The jobs bill was introduced in the senate!"

Hi guys,

So, if I understand correctly: There are people here who will argue in favour of any behaviour that is conducive to making money. Money in and of itself makes no rules. People/governments make rules, which effectively impedes progress.

Countries are free to institute any labour laws and environmental laws that they see fit. So, this ever-increasing competition between countries for money should eventually effectively remove all forms of impediments to making money - ie all the rules that money enforces (which is none), will ultimately rule the planet's behaviour towards human beings, environment etc.