reply to post by halfoldman
Dear halfoldman
Do you know what would be real nice, if just one % of so called Christians tried to follow the teaching of Jesus Christ!
You can fill as many churches as you like but very very few go away from there and do some good.
How many American Christians believe that AIDS can be a supernatural curse?, page 2
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 02:13 AM by Sinter Klaas
It's an absurd claim an I certainly hope that the majority of American Christians does not believe aids to be supernatural.
Ridiculous !
Pleas read this explanation from fellow member VnezonyDostupa
Here : A.i.d.s./H.I.V. is a Hoax ?
in a reply on this thread : aids/hiv is a hoax ?
Educate yourself people !
First hand experience there. learn.
Yes still stuff is off... the death count isn't. read and learn...
Ridiculous !
Pleas read this explanation from fellow member VnezonyDostupa
Here : A.i.d.s./H.I.V. is a Hoax ?
in a reply on this thread : aids/hiv is a hoax ?
Educate yourself people !
First hand experience there. learn.
Yes still stuff is off... the death count isn't. read and learn...
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 02:28 AM by halfoldman
reply to post by MAC269
There are many interpretations of the words of Christ.
To me, the majority of Christians are wonderful people, even if we don't agree on everything.
Actually there's also an argument with proof that the Christian response to HIV/AIDS has actually been tremendous.
There are many interpretations of the words of Christ.
To me, the majority of Christians are wonderful people, even if we don't agree on everything.
Actually there's also an argument with proof that the Christian response to HIV/AIDS has actually been tremendous.
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 02:45 AM by MAC269
reply to post by halfoldman
Dear halfoldman
Well as you say you have to go by what you see.
How about an Italian Priest holding mass in Italian once a month taking his time away from being the director of an orphanage for children with HIV/AIDS and not one cent is given from the congregation of so called Christians for his orphanage.
Not one cent.
Dear halfoldman
Well as you say you have to go by what you see.
How about an Italian Priest holding mass in Italian once a month taking his time away from being the director of an orphanage for children with HIV/AIDS and not one cent is given from the congregation of so called Christians for his orphanage.
Not one cent.
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 02:47 AM by halfoldman
reply to post by MAC269
Forgiveness, I'm not sure of the point.
Please could you clarify that a bit?
Forgiveness, I'm not sure of the point.
Please could you clarify that a bit?
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 02:54 AM by MAC269
reply to post by halfoldman
Dear halfoldman
The priest drives 50 miles each way once a month to hold mass in Italian and not one member of the congregation gives him one penny to help him care for over 80 children living with HIV/AIDS.
I do hope you understand that.
Dear halfoldman
The priest drives 50 miles each way once a month to hold mass in Italian and not one member of the congregation gives him one penny to help him care for over 80 children living with HIV/AIDS.
I do hope you understand that.
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 03:17 AM by halfoldman
reply to post by MAC269
Well, I'm sorry to hear that.
Those people are perhaps not properly informed on HIV/AIDS?
Maybe they already pay some form of church tax, or it's a poor congregation?
I'd hate to think they were just judgmental and cold-hearted.
But that happens with HIV.
It's still stuck in the same stigma as 1983 for some people.
Back then they burnt down people's houses, and wouldn't allow HIV-positive kids into school.
There was a sense in the US at that time that everyone with HIV was not only physically, but morally contaminating.
But for every bad priest and congregation, there was a good story too.
Although it is disappointing to think that before Franklin Graham's crusades on the issue, most evangelicals didn't give a stuff either. At least not in any non-judgemental, organized sense.
Well, I'm sorry to hear that.
Those people are perhaps not properly informed on HIV/AIDS?
Maybe they already pay some form of church tax, or it's a poor congregation?
I'd hate to think they were just judgmental and cold-hearted.
But that happens with HIV.
It's still stuck in the same stigma as 1983 for some people.
Back then they burnt down people's houses, and wouldn't allow HIV-positive kids into school.
There was a sense in the US at that time that everyone with HIV was not only physically, but morally contaminating.
But for every bad priest and congregation, there was a good story too.
Although it is disappointing to think that before Franklin Graham's crusades on the issue, most evangelicals didn't give a stuff either. At least not in any non-judgemental, organized sense.
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 04:16 AM by ntech
reply to post by halfoldman
For an answer to the original question "How many American Christians believe that AIDS can be a supernatural curse?" I would say yes.
And here is the evidence from the bible.
Essentially according to the bible Christianity is a reworked Judaism. Jesus Christ's episode on the cross is taking the place of the animal sacrifices that provided the atonement for sin. However per Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 if you fall away from the religion there is a terrible price to pay.
Essentially those 2 books contain the agreement made between Israel and their God. The benefits of being in a relationship with this God and the penalties incurred in violating and falling away from the religion. Now under Christianity as long as you are in good standing you are protected from the bad stuff. But if you lapse or otherwise fall away from the religion you become subjected to the curses.
And one little detail about the covenant? It's perpetual. Passed down from the parents to the children. So even if you're a atheist all your life if you had a ancestor that was a Jew or Christian you are subject to the covenant of Moses.
So yes, Aids could be a Leviticus 26 curse laid by God on those not living up to the covenant.
What Deuteronomy says.
58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;
59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God.
63 And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.
64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
68 And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.
For an answer to the original question "How many American Christians believe that AIDS can be a supernatural curse?" I would say yes.
And here is the evidence from the bible.
Essentially according to the bible Christianity is a reworked Judaism. Jesus Christ's episode on the cross is taking the place of the animal sacrifices that provided the atonement for sin. However per Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 if you fall away from the religion there is a terrible price to pay.
Essentially those 2 books contain the agreement made between Israel and their God. The benefits of being in a relationship with this God and the penalties incurred in violating and falling away from the religion. Now under Christianity as long as you are in good standing you are protected from the bad stuff. But if you lapse or otherwise fall away from the religion you become subjected to the curses.
And one little detail about the covenant? It's perpetual. Passed down from the parents to the children. So even if you're a atheist all your life if you had a ancestor that was a Jew or Christian you are subject to the covenant of Moses.
So yes, Aids could be a Leviticus 26 curse laid by God on those not living up to the covenant.
What Deuteronomy says.
58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;
59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God.
63 And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.
64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
68 And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 04:33 AM by halfoldman
reply to post by ntech
Well that's an honest exposition, and for that I thank you.
On the other hand, everyone gets sick and dies.
A king, a prophet, a whore, or a dog.
And the Lord's "chosen people" seem to have suffered more than other groups.
So following Him doesn't really improve one's health either way.
In fact it seems downright unhealthy.
In that sense I think the Eastern religions put it better.
I'm also not sure how to put this theory to a wife from a good family that was just infected by her husband: "Sorry but your ancestor did something wrong, and now you have HIV!"
How convenient for philandering husbands!
It's not his fault - it's because of some long dead ancestor!
Well that's an honest exposition, and for that I thank you.
On the other hand, everyone gets sick and dies.
A king, a prophet, a whore, or a dog.
And the Lord's "chosen people" seem to have suffered more than other groups.
So following Him doesn't really improve one's health either way.
In fact it seems downright unhealthy.
In that sense I think the Eastern religions put it better.
I'm also not sure how to put this theory to a wife from a good family that was just infected by her husband: "Sorry but your ancestor did something wrong, and now you have HIV!"
How convenient for philandering husbands!
It's not his fault - it's because of some long dead ancestor!
edit on 15-9-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 05:35 AM by ntech
reply to post by halfoldman
Since you mentioned it. I though I would point out why they seem to be suffering so much. They triggered one of those Leviticus 26 curses society wide around 2000 years ago.
Curse of the Apocalypse.
And then the problem became the descendants of Israel and Christianity have been scattering to the world for thousands of years. By now that curse of the Apocalypse is on most of the people of the world.
And while the example of the housewife you gave would be a sad case of fate I would point out the story of Job. It appeared though Job was a good person he had been cursed by God. Once having a good life his assets and family had been taken away from him leaving him with nothing. Per the story he brought his complaint to God himself asking "why?"
God's response? Simplified it's because there was larger issues at stake. It may appear meaningless what happened to that woman in question but in the larger scheme of things it could have impacts just not visible at her level of reality. What if her problem is actually a punishment directed at the husband?
As such there is no easy answers to those questions. Wadda think I am? God?
Since you mentioned it. I though I would point out why they seem to be suffering so much. They triggered one of those Leviticus 26 curses society wide around 2000 years ago.
Curse of the Apocalypse.
And then the problem became the descendants of Israel and Christianity have been scattering to the world for thousands of years. By now that curse of the Apocalypse is on most of the people of the world.
And while the example of the housewife you gave would be a sad case of fate I would point out the story of Job. It appeared though Job was a good person he had been cursed by God. Once having a good life his assets and family had been taken away from him leaving him with nothing. Per the story he brought his complaint to God himself asking "why?"
God's response? Simplified it's because there was larger issues at stake. It may appear meaningless what happened to that woman in question but in the larger scheme of things it could have impacts just not visible at her level of reality. What if her problem is actually a punishment directed at the husband?
As such there is no easy answers to those questions. Wadda think I am? God?
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 11:20 AM by halfoldman
reply to post by ntech
Of course Job was not so much "cursed" by God, as much as God allowed his apparent poker buddy Lucifer to push him beyond despair, simply because they made a bet on whether his faith would break or not.
Job does not break - instead he verbally guilt-trips God into giving him new wives and kids, and it all ends happy (wives were obviously a replaceable commodity back then).
But yet, God also insists that He should not be questioned, because the clay does not question the potter.
Sounds a bit like old-school parenting.
In some cases it does seem to help to complain, because beyond all the smiting, God is also a big softie.
Of course Job was not so much "cursed" by God, as much as God allowed his apparent poker buddy Lucifer to push him beyond despair, simply because they made a bet on whether his faith would break or not.
Job does not break - instead he verbally guilt-trips God into giving him new wives and kids, and it all ends happy (wives were obviously a replaceable commodity back then).
But yet, God also insists that He should not be questioned, because the clay does not question the potter.
Sounds a bit like old-school parenting.
In some cases it does seem to help to complain, because beyond all the smiting, God is also a big softie.
edit on 15-9-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 11:28 AM by halfoldman
reply to post by Suspiria
Yeah, it brought back a lot of bad memories on the D&D panic, and they still capitalize on the same nonsense.
What really scares me here in some of these mega-churches is when they tell people they are miraculously "cured" of HIV.
Yeah, it brought back a lot of bad memories on the D&D panic, and they still capitalize on the same nonsense.
What really scares me here in some of these mega-churches is when they tell people they are miraculously "cured" of HIV.
reply posted on 15-9-2011 @ 03:00 PM by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
if you don't believe in anything, you'll fall for everything.
pardonez how do you say kool-aid in french?
if you don't believe in anything, you'll fall for everything.
pardonez how do you say kool-aid in french?
edit on 15-9-2011 by DerepentLEstranger because: aded question
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