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Could Ancient Egyptian Religion Be Merely a Personification?

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posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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I was reading a book about ancient myths and wondered after reading it if Egyptian religion was based on personification of different aspects of the Hebrew god Yaweh? The reason I ask this is because I see similarities in the Bible and in mythology of descriptions, but those descriptions applied to Yaweh are different attributes while the gods of ancient Egypt have different personifications as attributes. I am a Christian by the way, so I am not attempting to sway anyone in any particular direction. I however found this interesting enough to research.

www.egyptianmyths.net...

smilegodlovesyou.org...

While I may be confusing in my question, I will try to make my point a little clearer. Suppose the Egyptians just took each individual attribute of the One God and gave that particular attribute a name as though it were a god, whereas the Hebrews combined all attributes as mere attributes of the One God?

The Shema says "Hear Oh Israel, the Lord thy God, the Lord is One", meaning that all these attributes of God are just what they are, attributes.

As Malachi 4:2 says But to you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

But in Egyptian mythology we have Horus

www.nekhebet.com...

Horus is one of the more important Egyptian gods. He is usually depicted as a man with the head of a falcon, or sometimes as a falcon as well. He is also depicted as a falcon encircling the head of the pharaoh with his wings.

The Egyptian god HorusHorus is another of the Egyptian gods with many attributes associated with him. He is sometimes associated with the sun god Ra and embodies the power of the sun and sky, and represents the pharaoh of Egypt. However, more popular myths describe the Egyptian god Horus as the dutiful son of Osiris and Isis. When the evil god Set murdered Osiris, Horus avenged his father and killed Set.

Horus is also depicted in the final judgment. After the deceased passes the weighing of the scales, Horus will lead the deceased to the underworld.

The Bible records the person Joseph of the Old Testament (Torah) that he was married to the daughter of an Egyptian priest and his name was changed to Zaphathanea. I do not think he stopped worship of Yaweh, but could it be that he maybe understood that while he worshipped the One God with the different attributes, he could have taught against the concept of different gods. We have no writings to support that but there are many similarities, too many to post right now. Could it be that the Egyptian religion and Judaism began with the same belief and somewhere along the way some people began to make each attribute of Yaweh into individual gods and worshipped that attribute instead of Yaweh in totality until Moses came along and said the first Shema?




posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


i believe you're onto something. there are many religions that share various details, such as jesus, mythra, horus, the creation myths, the great flood myths... many similarities.

maybe our ancestors were more connected culturally than we give them credit for



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I would think it was the other way around that there were many gods first, then their individual aspects were combine into a single God. I could be wrong but I think judo/christian beliefs came later closer to middle era Egypt. The Sumerians and Sanskrit texts also have numerous stories in line with the story of Jesus.

If you look as far back as we can Astrotheology (first documented religions) beliefs share aspects of these stories as well.

edit on 14-9-2011 by ParanoidAmerican because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 05:23 PM
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i disagree with your conclusions to a degree. it is long been favored that multiple gods came before the concept of THE ONE GOD.

so as i said, i disagree but to a point. i believe you have it backwards. egyptians came long before the hebrews.
Ancient egypt was filled with various attributes which eventually filtered down to the one god through Akhenaten.

Akhenaten was influenced through the melchizedek teachings. melchizedek preached about the one god long before
Akhenaten, though many of his teachings survived through Amenemope’s Book of Wisdom.

Taken from the Urantia book


Ikhnaton was wise enough to maintain the outward worship of Aton, the sun-god, while he led his associates in the disguised worship of the One God, creator of Aton and supreme Father of all. This young teacher-king was a prolific writer, being author of the exposition entitled “The One God,” a book of thirty-one chapters, which the priests, when returned to power, utterly destroyed. Ikhnaton also wrote one hundred and thirty-seven hymns, twelve of which are now preserved in the Old Testament Book of Psalms, credited to Hebrew authorship.


Moses ultimately lead the hebrews down the path of the one god.


(1055.5) 96:3.2 Despite the enticements of the culture of the Nile kingdom, Moses elected to cast his lot with the people of his father. At the time this great organizer was formulating his plans for the eventual freeing of his father’s people, the Bedouin captives hardly had a religion worthy of the name; they were virtually without a true concept of God and without hope in the world.

(1055.6) 96:3.3 No leader ever undertook to reform and uplift a more forlorn, downcast, dejected, and ignorant group of human beings. But these slaves carried latent possibilities of development in their hereditary strains, and there were a sufficient number of educated leaders who had been coached by Moses in preparation for the day of revolt and the strike for liberty to constitute a corps of efficient organizers. These superior men had been employed as native overseers of their people; they had received some education because of Moses’ influence with the Egyptian rulers.



and then we have this:


Moses had endeavored to teach these Bedouins the idea of El Elyon, but before leaving Egypt, he had become convinced they would never fully comprehend this doctrine. Therefore he deliberately determined upon the compromise adoption of their tribal god of the desert as the one and only god of his followers. Moses did not specifically teach that other peoples and nations might not have other gods, but he did resolutely maintain that Yahweh was over and above all, especially to the Hebrews. But always was he plagued by the awkward predicament of trying to present his new and higher idea of Deity to these ignorant slaves under the guise of the ancient term Yahweh, which had always been symbolized by the golden calf of the Bedouin tribes.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I would thin it was the other way around that there were many gods first, then their individual aspects were combine into a single God. I could be wrong but I think judo/christian beliefs came later closer to middle era Egypt. The Sumerians and Sanskrit texts also have numerous stories in line with the story of Jesus.


The Egyptians began to deify their own Pharaohs, which the Hebrews did not do to their leaders. I think it would be reasonable to assume the personification came by those Pharaohs who believed themselves to be a living god. But Pharaoh Ahkenaten was mono-theistic and did not deify himself. This led to open rebellion and much of his work has been destroyed. I believe the Romans began to deify their Caesars as well. It is very powerful in a society when a leader names himself as a god and forces worship of himself.

I always questioned also why Solomon would build gryphons, or sphinxes, to guard the temple at Jerusalem. That is a very Egyptian thing, but the temple was accepted by Yaweh to dwell in.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by InshaAllah
 


InshaAllah, that is very interesting, but like I said, the Egyptian Pharaohs deified themselves and associated themselves to attributes of the particular god they named themselves after. We know that names were very important in the ancient world and many people believed that the name you place on a child determines his future personality and success.

So the naming of a Pharaoh after a particular god would mean to them that Pharaoh would become like that god and eventually that god. But Abraham did not follow the Chaldean religion of multiple gods. He was mono-theistic as well. He went to Egypt with his wife Sarah and the Pharaoh wanted to marry her, but Abraham was afraid of being killed so he convinced her to say she was his sister. When the Pharaoh found out, he was worried of being cursed by God. So that implies that if he worshipped a multiplicity of gods, he would not have worried about the One God cursing him.

The Hebrew religion never deified people, hence the whole Jesus argument persists. But I think that the cultural understandings were much greater than we know today because so many experts have told us so many things from the modern perspective.

And the golden calf, Aaron built it with the gold, but Moses confronted him over it. So there was an understanding of that, even Moses who grew up in Pharaoh's court would have known that particular god, but it is not named in the Bible, only that it was a golden calf.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


This is a fair question friend.It is actually the reverse.The Hebrew,Judaic/Christian faiths are based on Egyptian religon.The Egyptian pantheon of Gods was long estabilshed before the story of Israel begain.The name IS-RA-EL is made from IS (Isis) RA (Ra) EL (Elohim, meaning God most high).

The Hebrew/Christian God recognized/acknowledged other Gods (man has become like one of US [plural] )in the Old Testement.The misinterpretaion of the one and only God stems from a one and only rightful God,meaning there were other lesser Gods,but one higher or rightful God.

Even when Christians finnish a pray they use the Egyptian word Amen for God. Amen Ra,Amen Amun.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 

I think I am seeing what you are saying now.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


If you read Isaiah 19:19, you find that the pyramids were built as a monument to the LORD. YHWH is the LORD in the Bible. This is one verse in the entire Bible stating this.

Now go and read the Corpus Hermeticum. This is what is left of Hermes writings. Hermes was Thoth in the Bible. The best translation is a book called, The Way of Hermes. The reason I suggest this book is because of the similarities between Hermes words about God and the Bible. He mentions rebirth and salvation as coming from the Father and the Son. He calls the Son the Word, as in John I Logos. 40 volumes of writings were burned in the Library of Alexandria ascribed to Hermes.

Next, read the book of Jasher and Enoch I. Compare Enoch to Hermes and you find that they were likely the same person. Enoch was pre-flood (Built the Pyramids) and then Joseph reestablished the link after the flood to what was stored at the site. Moses is then schooled in this teaching and followed God's lead from there. The thread of God is connected from pre-flood to today. After the flood, the Giza site was paganized.


edit on 14-9-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by 13th Zodiac
 


Moses of course was a trained adept of the Egyptian high priests, and so was Plato.

Seems their influence is rather far reaching..

I'm still glad however that Moses' God kicked Egyptian ass and hardened the heart of the Egomaniacal Pharaoh.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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Paganism is the old age religion that was proven worthless when mosses went to Egypt and brought the plagues to the land with the wrath of God.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by 13th Zodiac
 


I think I will look to find the most ancient Egyptian religion. I think like with most religions, it evolves over time.

Abraham was not Egyptian, but Chaldean. They worshipped different gods. But Abraham did not worship the way the Egyptians did when he went into Egypt.I know that Egyptian and Hebrew are two different languages based in Semitic. And there are gods referenced by Jesus that I have not heard referenced in any other religions, such as Be'elzebub. But that is a 1611 spelling which I think would actually be Ba'al Zevuv. I know it means Lord of the Flies, but were in that found in ancient religions? I do not know. Even the Apostle Paul referenced Enoch, which the modern Bibles do not have that in them.

I do believe the Apocrypha was in the original Bible, not any more. So because it was in the original Bible, I have read it. I don't understand it though. LOL.I do agree that there are many things that were indeed in the Bible that is not there now.

What I find is most intriguing is the Pharaoh's helicopter on the stele of the Temple at Abydos. It to me very clearly speaks exactly what is in the Book of Revelation. I can believe that these ancient prophets either had visions, or *gasp* time travelled. Whatever it was, they wrote very clearly of things we understand today.

By the way, I am not Catholic but am not interested in the anti-Catholic bashing that occurs. I just like to know what I believe in and what it is based on. If the ancients saw UFOs and aliens and made images of them and spoke about them, then I believe they saw those things. I mean we see things all the time and perhaps in the future, they will have a clearer understanding of what we see.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by InshaAllah
 


InshaAllah, that is very interesting, but like I said, the Egyptian Pharaohs deified themselves and associated themselves to attributes of the particular god they named themselves after. We know that names were very important in the ancient world and many people believed that the name you place on a child determines his future personality and success.

So the naming of a Pharaoh after a particular god would mean to them that Pharaoh would become like that god and eventually that god. But Abraham did not follow the Chaldean religion of multiple gods. He was mono-theistic as well. He went to Egypt with his wife Sarah and the Pharaoh wanted to marry her, but Abraham was afraid of being killed so he convinced her to say she was his sister. When the Pharaoh found out, he was worried of being cursed by God. So that implies that if he worshipped a multiplicity of gods, he would not have worried about the One God cursing him.

The Hebrew religion never deified people, hence the whole Jesus argument persists. But I think that the cultural understandings were much greater than we know today because so many experts have told us so many things from the modern perspective.

And the golden calf, Aaron built it with the gold, but Moses confronted him over it. So there was an understanding of that, even Moses who grew up in Pharaoh's court would have known that particular god, but it is not named in the Bible, only that it was a golden calf.




Yes eventually the ancient egyptians did identify their kingship with being god like as did the romans.


Taken from the Urantia book:


The early Semites regarded everything as being indwelt by a spirit. There were spirits of the animal and vegetable worlds; annual spirits, the lord of progeny; spirits of fire, water, and air; a veritable pantheon of spirits to be feared and worshiped. And the teaching of Melchizedek regarding a Universal Creator never fully destroyed the belief in these subordinate spirits or nature gods.

(1052.5) 96:1.2 The progress of the Hebrews from polytheism through henotheism to monotheism was not an unbroken and continuous conceptual development. They experienced many retrogressions in the evolution of their Deity concepts, while during any one epoch there existed varying ideas of God among different groups of Semite believers. From time to time numerous terms were applied to their concepts of God, and in order to prevent confusion these various Deity titles will be defined as they pertain to the evolution of Jewish theology:



1053.1) 96:1.3 1. Yahweh was the god of the southern Palestinian tribes, who associated this concept of deity with Mount Horeb, the Sinai volcano. Yahweh was merely one of the hundreds and thousands of nature gods which held the attention and claimed the worship of the Semitic tribes and peoples.



1053.2) 96:1.4 2. El Elyon. For centuries after Melchizedek’s sojourn at Salem his doctrine of Deity persisted in various versions but was generally connoted by the term El Elyon, the Most High God of heaven. Many Semites, including the immediate descendants of Abraham, at various times worshiped both Yahweh and El Elyon.



(1053.3) 96:1.5 3. El Shaddai. It is difficult to explain what El Shaddai stood for. This idea of God was a composite derived from the teachings of Amenemope’s Book of Wisdom modified by Ikhnaton’s doctrine of Aton and further influenced by Melchizedek’s teachings embodied in the concept of El Elyon. But as the concept of El Shaddai permeated the Hebrew mind, it became thoroughly colored with the Yahweh beliefs of the desert.



(1053.4) 96:1.6 One of the dominant ideas of the religion of this era was the Egyptian concept of divine Providence, the teaching that material prosperity was a reward for serving El Shaddai.



(1053.5) 96:1.7 4. El. Amid all this confusion of terminology and haziness of concept, many devout believers sincerely endeavored to worship all of these evolving ideas of divinity, and there grew up the practice of referring to this composite Deity as El. And this term included still other of the Bedouin nature gods.



(1053.6) 96:1.8 5. Elohim. In Kish and Ur there long persisted Sumerian-Chaldean groups who taught a three-in-one God concept founded on the traditions of the days of Adam and Melchizedek. This doctrine was carried to Egypt, where this Trinity was worshiped under the name of Elohim, or in the singular as Eloah. The philosophic circles of Egypt and later Alexandrian teachers of Hebraic extraction taught this unity of pluralistic Gods, and many of Moses’ advisers at the time of the exodus believed in this Trinity. But the concept of the trinitarian Elohim never became a real part of Hebrew theology until after they had come under the political influence of the Babyloni



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 06:33 PM
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(1053.7) 96:1.9 6. Sundry names. The Semites disliked to speak the name of their Deity, and they therefore resorted to numerous appellations from time to time, such as: The Spirit of God, The Lord, The Angel of the Lord, The Almighty, The Holy One, The Most High, Adonai, The Ancient of Days, The Lord God of Israel, The Creator of Heaven and Earth, Kyrios, Jah, The Lord of Hosts, and The Father in Heaven.



(1053.8) 96:1.10 Jehovah is a term which in recent times has been employed to designate the completed concept of Yahweh which finally evolved in the long Hebrew experience. But the name Jehovah did not come into use until fifteen hundred years after the times of Jesus.


It was through Abraham and the melchizedek teachings which brought this all together into the one god. through time it degenerated back into polytheism and then brought back into the one god teachings. through aknaton.

And degenerated again untill the 1st hebrew prophet Samuel. And then through Elijah and Elisha.


(1065.3) 97:3.6 Elijah shifted the Yahweh-Baal controversy from the land issue to the religious aspect of Hebrew and Canaanite ideologies. When Ahab murdered the Naboths in the intrigue to get possession of their land, Elijah made a moral issue out of the olden land mores and launched his vigorous campaign against the Baalites. This was also a fight of the country folk against domination by the cities. It was chiefly under Elijah that Yahweh became Elohim. The prophet began as an agrarian reformer and ended up by exalting Deity. Baals were many, Yahweh was one — monotheism won over polytheism.


Amos and Hosea was next.

(1065.6) 97:4.3 Said Amos: “He who formed the mountains and created the wind, seek him who formed the seven stars and Orion, who turns the shadow of death into the morning and makes the day dark as night.” And in denouncing his half-religious, timeserving, and sometimes immoral fellows, he sought to portray the inexorable justice of an unchanging Yahweh when he said of the evildoers: “Though they dig into hell, thence shall I take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down.” “And though they go into captivity before their enemies, thence will I direct the sword of justice, and it shall slay them.” Amos further startled his hearers when, pointing a reproving and accusing finger at them, he declared in the name of Yahweh: “Surely I will never forget any of your works.” “And I will sift the house of Israel among all nations as wheat is sifted in a sieve.” (1066.1) 97:4.4 Amos proclaimed Yahweh the “God of all nations” and warned the Israelites that ritual must not take the place of righteousness. And before this courageous teacher was stoned to death, he had spread enough leaven of truth to save the doctrine of the supreme Yahweh; he had insured the further evolution of the Melchizedek revelation.


And the 1st Isiah,and Jeremiah the Fearless, and the 2nd Isiah....much has lead to the one god



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by InshaAllah
 


I have never heard of Kyrios, I will look that up.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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The Urantia, I will look that up. Can you send a good link?



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 07:15 PM
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www.urantia.org...


Although i have meet a few on this sight that hate that book. I say judge for yourself what is truth and what isnt. i encountered this book 15 yrs ago it was beyond my comprehension at the time. Now i find it to be most enlightening. Although the beggining is boring as heck try reading it cover to cover in the end it works out better because you'll be scratching your head the whole time if ya dont.

and you can read the whole book for free at the link.
edit on 14-9-2011 by InshaAllah because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-9-2011 by InshaAllah because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by InshaAllah
www.urantia.org...


Although i have meet a few on this sight that hate that book. I say judge for yourself what is truth and what isnt. i encountered this book 15 yrs ago it was beyond my comprehension at the time. Now i find it to be most enlightening. Although the begging is boring as heck try reading it cover to cover in the end it works out better because you'll be scratching your head the whole time if ya dont.

and you can read the whole book for free at the link.
edit on 14-9-2011 by InshaAllah because: (no reason given)


Thank you.



posted on Sep, 15 2011 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Paganism is the old age religion that was proven worthless when mosses went to Egypt and brought the plagues to the land with the wrath of God.


Proven worthless to whom? The Pagans didn't find it worthless. In fact, the exact opposite is true.
Christmas and Easter are Pagan holidays and represent a goddess not Jesus, The seasonal timing of the two holidays is Pagan as well. Ancient cultures around the Mediterranean shared standard ideas about Gods and their powers and place in the universe.Christianity simply adopted those ideas and applied them to Jesus.

Easter is not a Christian name. It has a Babylonian origin. Easter is Isthar, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven.

Pagan Gods born of virgins: Danae, Melanippe, Auge and Antiope. In many ways, Christianity is a copy-cat religion of Paganism. Very little of Christian customs and even beliefs are original.

In my opinion, the biggest difference between Christianity and Pagans is that the Pagan actually walks the Christian talk. Rarely will you find a Pagan making statements that another person's belief/religon is worthless. In fact, Pagans go to great lengths to boost their fellow man instead of Judge. One could easily say that the Pagan is by far a much better Christian than most Christians.

Do your research you would be stunned to discover how Moses was unable to replace what you consider a worthless religion. In fact, its influence still shapes the modern Christian church of today. However, Christians have lost site of the Pagan message of love. I find your avatar interesting.
Just sayin..

edit on 15/9/11 by applebaum because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2011 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by applebaum
 


People misunderstand what pagan really means anyway. When they say pagan it is an umbrella term for anything not of a mainstream religion.

The Celts were pagans and followed a different system of religion than Chaldean pagans. Most of what we think about the pagan influence is Middle Eastern, except for the Celtic influence found in the yule log and mistletoe that a lot of people associate with Christmas but it actually just the Winter Solstice they were celebrating.

The reason we celebrate Christmas on December 25 is because a Catholic monk decreed that was the day Jesus was born, we all know it is not the actual day. There are some of us who do not have a yule log, mistletoe, do not not believe in Santa and eight tiny reindeer. We accept that some priest from the Netherlands called Nicholas did bring gifts to poor children but we don't celebrate him.

And as far as Easter goes, there are some of us Christians who do not hunt Easter eggs because we find it ridiculous that rabbits lay eggs and see no correlation between that and the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that Jesus died days after the Passover, because the last supper was actually a Seder. It is the Passover to which some Christians like me revolve time around. And by going on that time frame, we know Jesus lived 33 1/2 years. So counting back 6 months from March/April we arrive at the middle of September, which was the harvest time and when shepherds would have been in the fields tending their flocks.

I think like this, if the entire host of heaven found this birth to have such great meaning and importance enough to celebrate it in heaven, then we should here as well. It was to us the Christ was given.If people want to give gifts to each other and celebrate this birth with each other, then I do not want to discourage that. I think celebration is good. But there are people who, without knowing, celebrate with the Celtic pagan elements.

And some of us really detest eating Easter ham. One time I went to visit relatives for Easter dinner because I was invited and they had the usual big ham, but I did not eat any of it. I remarked jokingly that it isn't very kosher, and the young college student (who was attending a very Fundamental Baptist University) got very upset and said "We don't do that Jewish thing". It is ridiculous to not have an understanding of the very things they do celebrate. This same college student also worships Harry Potter. Which I find so silly, I do not have a single Harry Potter book or movie and will not. I know it may seem innocent and fun, but I also know what that fun represents. By the way, I don't celebrate Halloween either. There are a few of us out here who understand the differences in paganism and the elements have been infused ignorantly into Christianity. That is not to say I am Jewish and celebrate Jewish holy days. I have been to a seder, but feel no obligation to having to keep them as rituals because I believe like the Apostle Paul says "Let no man judge you in meats or drinks or new moons or sabbaths". Sometimes though I do celebrate St. Patrick's day, because I am Irish...but not Catholic.



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