Antichrist, will perform many miracles ,astounding wonders to deceive the people. [HIS] coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders ''[Thess 2: 9]

''''Being the father of all lies, he will so delude the imagination by false acts, that it will seem to the people that they see a man raised from the dead, whereas he had not in fact been raised up;it will seem that the lame walk and the blind see, when no such cures had ocurred'''[St .Cyril of Jerusalem,Catechetical Lecture XV.14 )


All such measures of Antichrist- his teaching, his fame as a brilliant thinker, his ''lying wonders'' and his whole hypocritical,outwardly virtious life-will have but one purpose: the securing in his own hands of universal dominian over all nations.
The initial phase of this plan will be the achieving of popularity among the Jews.
The antichrist will put forth every effort to induce the Jews to acknowledge him as their promised messiah.
He will be successful in establishing a Jewish realm and will undertake also the RESTRORATION OF THE TEMPLE OF SOLOMON (which now stands the Mosque of Omar )
realizing a dream the Jews have cherished for thousands of years.
Then, ''' compelled by the people, he shall be proclaimed king.
And the Jewish people shall love him much, and he shall reach Jerusalem and raise up their Temple''[LENTEN TRIODON,loc.CIT.]

All of Antichrist's efforts to pass himself of as the messiah will be met with unexpected and miraculous opposition on the part of two fiery prophets of the OLD TESTAMENT who , in accordance with the will of God, did not know death, but were translated to Heaven above until their hour should come, and appear on earth before the end of the world to fulfill their mission and taste of death.

The names of these holy prophets are Enoch and Elias(Elijah) .
The Lord shall send them to Jerusalem during the last days of the earth to give the people a final, miraculous warning against the deceit that will take holdof them...

For three and half years they will denounce unopposed all the falsehood of the Antichrist throughout the second period of his activity, while he prepares himself to grasp world-wide power in his own hands.
Not departing from his personal meekness and benevolance towards his opponents,Antichrist will not be able to prevent the prophets denunciations at that time, nor use any force against them.


Mnay people interpret the appearance of Enoch AND eLIAS ALLEGORICALLY.........

tHE sCRIPTURES AND THE tRADITION OF THE CHURCH SPEAK DEFINATELY OF THEIR ACTUAL COMING TO EARTH SEVEN YRS BEFORE THE END OF THE WORLD,OF THEIR DENUNCIATIONS, OF THEIR MARTYDOM,RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD, AND ASCENTION INTO HEAVEN..
Apocalypse....
''''I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophecy a thousand two hundred and threescore days(1,260 days =three and half yrs ) clothed in sackcloth, these are the two olive trees, and the two candle sticks standing before the God of earth.
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies:and if any man will hurt them he must in this manner be killed .
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy:and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, andto smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will.And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them,and will kill them'''[Rev 11:3-7]

Helen... he's not coming.

Revelation was a very controversial book and many scholars of St. Augustine's time felt that it was not something that should be included in the Bible. They were overruled (and by someone who thought they saw all the signs very clearly that Armageddon would happen any day now.

It's a very nice metaphor, very lovely imagery. It's got a nicely spooky description of stuff.

But it ain't going to happen, and 30 years from now you'll still be arguing that it will happen any second and you now know who the Antichrist is and I'll be saying "no. It won't happen."

There's a fun book that was published years ago called APOCALYPSE WOW! It reviews most of the predictions of the end of the world, including Revelation, and gives some of the notable dates when people swore the earth would come to an end.

Byrd........lol

i heard you the first time........


ok , i have read many prophecies concerning
world war 1
world war 11 and they have been 100% accurate by the authors........
I still stand by the early church fathers concerning the end of the world!!!

What happened in Russia during the first world war ,and the second world war, have all been written down by ""prophecy"" and are there to be read(in english now) if any one wishes to read on History concerning the fate of the people in the coming days......when? i dont know, but the prophecies are there and will come about..........
And i'm not talking about Nostradamus or false prophets either!!!


look, the time and hour is not given to us!
But the signs are all there ...........when that time comes ,only God knows!!!

Revelation, is a hard book to understand and trying to decipher the messages in there is not for any man to try and come to a conclusion of when it will happen........

And take heed to yourselves,lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkeness, and cares of this life; and so that day come upon you unawares''''[Luke 21 : 34 ]


[Edited on 10-4-2003 by helen670]

I'm undecided on how I feel about antichrist/End of the world..
..but about this
I don't think Revelations gives any sense of "this is gonna happen soon" so much as it just says, "when it DOES happen, this is what it will look like.

I think these events can be delayed indefinetly, as long as we try.



[Edited on 10-4-2003 by quango]

There's a saying .......
''According to Elder Lavrenty, a nineteenth -century Russian monastic and visionary,
'''Until the number of fallen angels is restored, the Lord will not come to judge.
But in the last time[ie., at the very end] the Lord will add to the number of angels from those living who are written in the Book of Life , in order to make up the number of the fallen.''

''''The world continues'', wrote Archimindrite Panteleimon,'''because not all who are suitable for the Kingdom of Christ have entered it, or, not as many as are necessary have yet entered.
The Lord has said: And other sheep i have,which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice, and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.[John 10:16 ]
When all seeking salvation in the true God have done so,then the end will draw near, and the Antichrist will appear.'''

Saint Matthew tells the poignant story of those first martyrs,whom Herod murdered in his vain attempt to eradicate the infant Jesus.
''''A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, weeping,and great mourning,Rachel weeping for her children,refusing to be comfoted,because they are no more'''[Matthew 2:8]

Two thousand years later, innocent babies are again being martyred for Christ.But Satan no longer needs a Herod to do his will. His accomplicers now are modern mothers, the '''health professionals'' who assist them, and the friends, relatives, lovers and husbands who encourage-often nearly coerce-them to consent to the murder of their own children.

The Scriptures reveal that Satan's attempt to keep heaven empty will fail.
For, if ''God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones'''[Matthew 3:9 ],it is certainly within His power to raise up His children, all of them,to Christ.
Our Lord leaves weeping Rachel with the consolation that her babies, all those sacrificed for His sake, will be saved.
'''Thus says the Lord:'''Refrain your voice from weeping,and your eyes from tears; for your work shall be rewarded,says the Lord, and they shall come back from the land of the enemy.
There is hope in your future,says the Llord, that your children shall come back to their own border''[Jeremiah 31:16,17 ]

'''taken from '''Ultimate things'''''



Because of '''Lucifer'' satan and his fallen angels.........thousands,upon thousands(meaning too many too be counted ) had fallen from heaven ,it will b

Originally posted by helen670

The Lord has said: And other sheep i have,which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice, and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.[John 10:16 ]
When all seeking salvation in the true God have done so,then the end will draw near, and the Antichrist will appear.'''

There will be no end of people questioning religion and spirituality - it's part of the process in finding God. You have to look for him first.
As long as people are being born, people will be questioning.

Revelations is like the world's largest magic ritual.
It was created to destroy the world, and it functions by convincing people one way or the other that the End is coming. Even if you oppose it, and try to stop it, you're admiting that it's coming.
Once everyone is involved, one way or the other, the program is set and it plays out to the end.

If you're going to die and 'be with God' anyway,then there's no reason to destroy Mankind in the meantime.


EDIT: if this sounds 'harsh', i'm sorry

[Edited on 10-4-2003 by quango]

I think, Helen, if you'll check on those "prophecies" you'll find that they arose AFTER the wars or else they were so vauge they could have applied to anything.

Most "infallible prophecies" turn out to be those sorts... the exact ones appear after the fact and are said to relate to a historical event (one recent one is some "prophecies" by Mother Teresa.) The others are so vague that we could all make up prophecies and say they apply to current events.

You could John Milton's Paradise lost to claim all sorts of things:
"Thy creature late so lov'd, thy youngest Son
Fall circumvented thus by fraud, though joynd
With his own folly? that be from thee farr,
That farr be from thee, Father, who art Judg
Of all things made, and judgest onely right. [ 155 ]
Or shall the Adversarie thus obtain
His end, and frustrate thine, shall he fulfill
His malice, and thy goodness bring to naught,
Or proud return though to his heavier doom,
Yet with revenge accomplish't and to Hell [ 160 ]
Draw after him the whole Race of mankind,
By him corrupted? "

So you could say that was any Pope you cared to make fit that "prophecy" or even Napoleon or Stalin or any great city or nation you wished to make of it. It's vague.

And unless the "prophecy" is going to go on the line with hard evidence and hard dates (as Cayce did or Nostradamus in one point) and risk failing miserably (as both did), you can't say it's true prophecy.

Heck, even I could say "The son of war will be matched by the dragon of the moon and his falling will be great" and claim it was prophetic for just about any future event I cared to make it "prophetic" for.

There's nothing in Revelation that's specific beyond "the number of the beast" and as people have proven throughout history, that everything from Nero to Saddam actually comes out to "666." So even that's not unique. There's no "2,000 years from this date" in there or "60 days from today" or anything. It's just prose, just like "Paradise Lost" from John Milton.

And frankly, given its track record, I do think the early Church fathers were right in arguing that it should NEVER have been put in the Bible.

[Edited on 10-4-2003 by Byrd]

Helen, the end of the world was suppose to be year 666, then 999, then 1666, then 1999, and so forth. The end of the world, why do you want it so much? You sound suicidal to me helen, are you seeing a psychiatrist? I'm sorry, but you keep talking about end of the world, death, destruction, you must be suicidal. I am sorry that your life has gotten so bad you have become suicidal. But it will be ok, and remember, cut uyour wrists up and down, not across for best efect.

lol.............


Prophecy is there for humankind to get closer to God.
Any prophecy that is given by Astrology or psychics that claim to know the future are all '''self knowledge '' that is not from God......

i'm not putting this down here for my benefit!!

If any one does not like to read it,then that is fine ,but it will concern everyone .............

Yes, we will all die someday,but it does not mean that ''WE ALL GO TO GOD""
i'm not sinnless! no one is .......but i beleive that one can look at their life and decide that it needs God to perfect it......


what makes you think i'm suicidal???
my writing on these threads???
All I have done is share information with others......Is that bad???

About prophecy..........accurate , and specicific prophecy concerning future events have been written,there are a number of '''holy men,fathers of the church that have specifically prophesied down to the letter of when and how things would happen, and it was in the 16th century that St Kosmas (AND MANY OTHERS) that told how things would happen during the war in Greece (because this saint was living in Greece )he said things that even today, all the written prophecies are coming out 100% accurate........
prophecy concerning future events have been written from the 3rd century and handed down to the present day!


[Edited on 11-4-2003 by helen670]

thank you helen
throught what u are telling all is the same like i been read for a long year too.but most of the people dont believe in that maybe the arrogant make them feel stronger or nationalism make them better i know not
what the bible tell us is antichrist actually is a jews leader or the the ISRAEL ARMY COMMMANDER use to believe this person come to power after the most american millitary operation in the mideast or the US base being close so the mideast power will auto change to the israel millitary operation it seem like the power being given .
1.US base close most in the mideast maybe because of the suicide bomber attacking by large number or by using dangerous chem or bio weapon .
2.maybe the arab community dont want so the american millitary stay on their base in each of the arab country i guess
that all i know ,anyway thank you again cos u tell the truths but hard to other to installing their head

Why do I think you suicidal? People who are suicidal speak about death, dying, end of life. You talk about death, dying, end of the world, armegeddon. You are fixated on death. So either suicidal or the next Manson(serial killers also fixate on death) Which one? I hope you getting help helen, wouldn't want to see a ats member kill themself or hurt others. Please helen, take what is making you suicidaland turn it around, make life better.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Why do I think you suicidal? People who are suicidal speak about death, dying, end of life. You talk about death, dying, end of the world, armegeddon. You are fixated on death. So either suicidal or the next Manson(serial killers also fixate on death) Which one? I hope you getting help helen, wouldn't want to see a ats member kill themself or hurt others. Please helen, take what is making you suicidaland turn it around, make life better.

am i getting help? LOL i'm having a cup of expresso!!!
Look,maybe i have gone over the top with these threads(i said maybe?)

my life is good!
i dont ""fixate on death""
am i hurting anyone???

sorry if i am!

i mean, i dont know what to answer you?


ok, im smiling coz i just dont know what to say?

i mean, what am i suppose to talk about in the religious thread?

yep, here i go again again

i'm just sharing knowledge that i have read with others that wish to read!


That's it!!!

OH, WHO WAS MANSON??? (NOW THERE'S A LITTLE HUMOUR)

[Edited on 11-4-2003 by helen670]

Actually, the bible says a good many things and many of them are contradictory.

For instance, the Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah because he didn't fulfill the signs given to the Jews by Jehovah (which include rebuilding the temple.)

There have been thousands of times when people read the Bible and said, "okay! This is IT!" -- and they had "proof" that included all the signs in Revelation.

We're still here. Armageddon hasn't happened and it won't happen -- and it was a grave mistake to put that book in the bible in the first place.

Byrd,


i hope you haven't taken any offence to my writing!

The Jews didn't understand the timing of Christ, which coming would represent which mission. That doesn't make it contradictory. Also, the Jews were not to accept Christ the first visit. Had they, the rest of us would have been left out in the cold. It is perfectly clear by reading the Gospels, listening to how Christ responds to the Jews, that he rejected them on His first visit.

I'm firmly convinced that we are living in the end times, Byrd. It appears to me that the only prophesy left before the Tribulation period of seven years is the rapture of the church. Would I be crestfallen if I turn out to be wrong? No way. The Bible is also clear about nobody knowing the day or hour, so if my suppositions are off, there's a good reason!

No, Helen -- I'm hardly offended at your writing.

However, we do have a sudden influx of people here who believe something Biblical is going to happen. I think that in the interests of fairness, balance, and stopping unwarranted hysteria and panic that the other side should be presented.

"Armageddon Fever" has harmed many people -- caused hundreds of thousands to commit suicide and do other irrational things. I think we are in more danger from our own irrationality running rampant than we are from some Biblical scenario.

So, just as I speak up when someone announces the Norwalk Virus is really a bioweapons attack on the US by Russia or that there's a huge asteroid headed to smack into Earth in 3 days, I speak up when I think someone is spreading "Armageddon fever."

I can understand the state of people today,
especially looking at how many people
claim to speak with God and claim to be
His prophets or just claim that they are ""God""
BUT, why would the threads on ''end of times''
bring people to suicidal thought or whatever???

I beleive that it would awaken people to do their own ''searching''' and decide for themselves what is 'truth 'or lies.......

people do have a choice, and its one thing that makes us humans.............''''Free Will'''