It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Freedom of Speech and Freewill

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:07 AM
link   
Please read this with an open mind, this is not in anyway an attack on free speech. That said:


I would like to hear your ideas on ways to improve society which is the purpose of this thread. Here is my thoughts I would like to share with you.

I as most people here at ATS value freedom of speech. It is what allows us to voice our opinions instead of being silenced, and have those ideas, feelings or emotions bottled up and suppressed. I as many of you also share the outrage when those "above" us attempt to silence our voice or even our thoughts. I am a firm believer of being free to make my own choices as long as it doesn't hurt anyone and it is for the best interest of the well being of everyone and myself both spiritual wise and physical wise. That is part of being a Citizen, a contributor to humanity and above all a service to all.

I believe in the number one law of the universe which is above all laws including laws of men and that is the law of freewill. However;many people take freewill for granted and perform acts upon one another. Because of this, most people would demonize freewill and fear freewill would bring upon chaos on the public. The MSM and those in power take advantage of the situation and begin to spread fear, and with it demonize freewill even more.


This is slowly taking away our rights, this fear they spread unto us in another attempt to gain
control. This brings me to question events such as westboro's church.




Then we finally see a reaction from the people.




It is this type of behavior that causes new laws to rise and limit us even more, when I should think we are all adult enough to try and be compassionate towards another human being. My response to the second video? They were both in the wrong. And they both broke the number one law in the universe. How?

People have Freewill figured all wrong. It works both ways, not just one way. To exercise true free will one must be compassionate and respect others. Meaning, no one has a right to impose unto you limitations, but neither do you. By simply Protesting at funerals while others are in emotional distress, you are also blocking people from fully mourning and expressing themselves freely.

To put it short, freewill is not the problem IGNORANCE is.

When someone has a concern, all it takes is to listen, but also being considerate by not trying to impose your thoughts unto others. They have as much right to experience life without limitations as you do.It is up to them,
to decide if they should take your advice or words to heart or not. By committing murders, Jailing them, or any negative action towards another human being, you are also violating the law of freewill.

In order for peace and harmony to rise, neither side can win. There always has to be a common ground, a middle point where both sides can meet and shake hands. You can call it balance.

So what is the solution?


By simply growing up and not growing up. Confused? I'll explain: I meant that In the sense, to stop acting childish meaning stop worrying about what others do and whining about every single thing a person does and just accept things as they are, but yet remain a child at heart, free to explore and free to be compassionate by simply putting yourself in the other persons shoes.

I am sure there is more we can do to improve society if we can just put our differences aside. We are all human beings living in the same world, we all came from one source. What I would like however, for this thread, is to open up a small friendly debate, and try and find similar solutions if not better ones. I would like to hear your thoughts on how to improve society. Perhaps these thoughts may stay on the web forever and actually be looked upon years later by future generations. Perhaps the Idea that spawns from here will form a ripple that would one day turn into a large wave.

That is my hope.

So I invite all of you unto this thread, to improve upon this idea, and hope it actually grows into something more to benefit humanity. For we are but human, but we certainly have the mind capability to carry compassion towards one another.



Thank you for your time

Namaste

edit on 14-9-2011 by RisenAngel77 because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-9-2011 by RisenAngel77 because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-9-2011 by RisenAngel77 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by RisenAngel77
By simply Protesting at funerals while others are in emotional distress, you are also blocking people from fully mourning and expressing themselves freely.


Explain to me how protesters 'block' people from fully mourning and expressing themselves. Please.

The funeral goers have FREE WILL. They can put their attention on the protests or they can do what they came there to do - mourn the dead. They are FREE to moan and wail and EXPRESS themselves freely.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:19 AM
link   
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I said at funerals, I am not saying protests in general are bad since they are needed when tyranny comes. I am talking mostly about compassion and understanding one another by placing ourselves in the other persons shoes. You may want to pay attention instead of reading between the lines

edit on 14-9-2011 by RisenAngel77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:22 AM
link   

Originally posted by RisenAngel77
I said at funerals


I know. That's what I'm asking about. How do funeral protesters block people from mourning?


I am talking mostly about compassion and understanding one another by placing ourselves in the other persons shoes.


I'm all for that. I do it all the time. It's a great practice, but one that people have to CHOOSE for themselves, not have it thrust upon them.



You may want to pay attention instead of reading between the lines


I did pay attention. I'm addressing exactly what you said. Will you answer my question?



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:32 AM
link   
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Allow me to give you a scenario. Let's say you want to meditate, but someone puts on loud music in your house. You ask them kindly to tone it down and be considerate, but then they raise the volume up a bit more. They are making it difficult for you to do so. They are limiting you mental wise to try and focus and concentrate and instead causing you anger.

By simply saying, "they have free will" yes they do, but when it comes to mind wise they do not. Not everyone has the capability to try and surpass the noisy mental state. Peace and quiet is required at times to reflect. When someone is chanting, "God hates etc etc" or putting loud music when someone is trying to reflect they cause emotional distress.

In other words they are imposing their ideas unto you without compassion, therefor the protesters are also violating freewill.


Like I said, the key to balance is to be compassionate towards others.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:34 AM
link   
If you don't support free speech everywhere, you don't support it at all.

Please realize that one exception is plenty for tyranny to gain ground.

Also how is speech free if you can pass laws that limit it based merely upon subjective emotional opinions by people who want to gag them?

Looks like gagging and censoring and silencing people no matter what public location is complete utter tyranny. Give em an inch and they will take a mile!



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by RisenAngel77

Allow me to give you a scenario. Let's say you want to meditate, but someone puts on loud music in your house. You ask them kindly to tone it down and be considerate, but then they raise the volume up a bit more.


Bad example.

A Cemetery is public land. Free speech reigns supreme there.

Your house? Well kick them out if you don't like what they are doing. That's your private property and your call.

Let's get this straight. Public property is not private property!



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by RisenAngel77

In other words they are imposing their ideas unto you without compassion, therefor the protesters are also violating freewill.


Like I said, the key to balance is to be compassionate towards others.



Your post is imposing your ideas upon me without compassion, therefore your post is also violating freewill.

You should be censored. You offend me greatly and are scaring me and emotionally damaging me with your anti-freedom talk.

Let's pass a law to make sure no one is allowed to talk this way again.

This street goes two ways, hope you don't mind it when push comes to shove.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by muzzleflash
If you don't support free speech everywhere, you don't support it at all.

Please realize that one exception is plenty for tyranny to gain ground.

Also how is speech free if you can pass laws that limit it based merely upon subjective emotional opinions by people who want to gag them?

Looks like gagging and censoring and silencing people no matter what public location is complete utter tyranny. Give em an inch and they will take a mile!



My Goal with this thread is to arrive at a middle ground where it is fair for everyone and achieving harmony. I mentioned the law of freewill which surpasses the law of free speech. Free speech has it's pros and cons, but the Law of Freewill arrives at a neutral state. Because it protects everyone while at the same time it allows everyone to express themselves freely.



Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by RisenAngel77

In other words they are imposing their ideas unto you without compassion, therefor the protesters are also violating freewill.


Like I said, the key to balance is to be compassionate towards others.



Your post is imposing your ideas upon me without compassion, therefore your post is also violating freewill.

You should be censored. You offend me greatly and are scaring me and emotionally damaging me with your anti-freedom talk.

Let's pass a law to make sure no one is allowed to talk this way again.

This street goes two ways, hope you don't mind it when push comes to shove.



However, YOU chose to read it. YOU choose to accept it or not. That is your right.

edit on 14-9-2011 by RisenAngel77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:43 AM
link   
reply to post by RisenAngel77
 


No middle ground never. I will never budge.

Guess what? The 1st Amendment is protected by the 2nd.

You will never gain a middle ground on Freedom.

I highly suggest you realize the incredible mistake you are making here and please rescind this and back away. Back away from the censorship desires. They are bad for your mental and emotional state. Very bad.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by RisenAngel77


However, YOU chose to read it. YOU choose to accept it or not. That is your right.

edit on 14-9-2011 by RisenAngel77 because: (no reason given)


Right. You choose to listen to protesters. You choose to care about what they say or not. That is your right.

But it is NOT YOUR RIGHT to use law or force to gag them into silence.

Why cannot you choose to ignore it in the same manner I can choose to ignore anyone?

I can ignore my two kids when they are yelling and screaming, and they are way worse than some lousy protesters. It can be done.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by RisenAngel77
 


No middle ground never. I will never budge.

Guess what? The 1st Amendment is protected by the 2nd.

You will never gain a middle ground on Freedom.

I highly suggest you realize the incredible mistake you are making here and please rescind this and back away. Back away from the censorship desires. They are bad for your mental and emotional state. Very bad.


What mistake is that? trying to achieve balance? The unity of the yin and yang? Peace and harmony? Utopia?
Then let me ask you, what would you do? promote more wars instead of peace and love? Hatred never solves anything, neither does vengeance. All you need to do is look at history and see what it solves. Nothing.

Point is, people who show no compassion do not contribute positively towards humanity. This goes for all sides, The elites, lawmakers, races everyone. I see no mistake in trying to promote compassion and love. Because if you read closely, that is what I was doing to begin with.


Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by RisenAngel77


However, YOU chose to read it. YOU choose to accept it or not. That is your right.

edit on 14-9-2011 by RisenAngel77 because: (no reason given)


Right. You choose to listen to protesters. You choose to care about what they say or not. That is your right.

But it is NOT YOUR RIGHT to use law or force to gag them into silence.

Why cannot you choose to ignore it in the same manner I can choose to ignore anyone?

I can ignore my two kids when they are yelling and screaming, and they are way worse than some lousy protesters. It can be done.


I never promoted anything that forces someone to silence anyone. We all have the responsibility to carry out compassion and treat others like we like to be treated ourselves. you are looking at this from only one perspective and viewing it as an attack to freedom when I am doing the opposite. Please read carefully.

Right now our rights our being taken away as we speak. because people do not have compassion and are too closed minded to arrive at a middle ground. Instead of ranting, why not help improve on the idea presented and try to arrive at a balanced point? Nothing is impossible. And I am sure with the many stars you have, you can help try and put a stop to the madness that plagues this world.


I am talking revolution that would bring us close to evolution as a species and think outside the box.

edit on 14-9-2011 by RisenAngel77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:52 AM
link   

In Evelyn Beatrice Hall's biography of Voltaire, she coined the following phrase to illustrate Voltaire's beliefs: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."[30] Hall's quote is frequently cited to describe the principle of freedom of speech.[31] In the 20th Century Noam Chomsky states that: "If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Stalin and Hitler, for example, were dictators in favor of freedom of speech for views they liked only. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise."


What I find extremely strange is that you have a Ron Paul banner.

Ron Paul and censorship do not mix.
edit on 14-9-2011 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 11:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by RisenAngel77

What mistake is that? trying to achieve balance? The unity of the yin and yang? Peace and harmony? Utopia?
Then let me ask you, what would you do? promote more wars instead of peace and love? Hatred never solves anything, neither does vengeance. All you need to do is look at history and see what it solves. Nothing.



You are wrong again.

The Universe is always in balance. That is how I exist and am here to combat you and hold you back. Keep you in check.

You cannot 'force' balance, that is totally the way of the dark side. How can you Not see this?

Universe = always in balance
You trying to "create balance" = imbalanced



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 12:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by muzzleflash


What I find extremely strange is that you have a Ron Paul banner.

Ron Paul and censorship do not mix.
edit on 14-9-2011 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)


I support ron pauls views which is why I have it. You are viewing this as an attack instead of analyzing the message behind it. I already made my point clear, but if you choose to view it as an attack then that is your point of view, but putting words in my mouth will not help your case either. I am a thinker outside the box. And I say both sides are wrong and there is another way to solve humanity's problem by simply being compassionate and love one another.


Like I said, I would like to hear your point of view on how to solve humanity's problem. Which is the purpose of this thread. I am aiming for evolution as a species.



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 12:21 PM
link   
reply to post by RisenAngel77
 


Freedom of speach exist only in our own worlds. To speak freely what u think is ok as long as it doent dissagree with law,or dissagree with government. Freedom of speech died once world became an "bugged room" where government can hear and see everything,and can arrest u if they dont like what u do,or say. U can forget about freedom of speach now days. As Bush said.... "Countries must decide now,are they with us (USA) or with terrorists" Like there is no other option like I give a SH*T about USA or terrorists?



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 12:21 PM
link   
reply to post by RisenAngel77
 


Freedom of speach exist only in our own worlds. To speak freely what u think is ok as long as it doent dissagree with law,or dissagree with government. Freedom of speech died once world became an "bugged room" where government can hear and see everything,and can arrest u if they dont like what u do,or say. U can forget about freedom of speach now days. As Bush said.... "Countries must decide now,are they with us (USA) or with terrorists" Like there is no other option like I give a SH*T about USA or terrorists?



posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 03:10 PM
link   
"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." --Oliver Wendell Holmes

Free will and freedom of speech both have something in common: consequences. As a firm believer in the 1st Amendment, I also believe that if someone says something to me that nobody can rationally believe is warranted (insulting my wife or my son, for example) I believe the law of consequences shall be demonstrated on that person. This is the reason that it is illegal to yell "FIRE!" in a movie theater. People will panic and someone could be genuinely harmed.

I fully support Westboro Baptists right to peacefully assemble, crazy as they are. It's insensitive, it is against the true tenets of Christianity, and it is inflammatory, but it is their right. However, the second video shows the consequences of their actions. It is unfortunate because those people were acting as foolishly as WBC were, and it could cause issues down the road for our freedoms. But even they have a right to speak.

/TOA



posted on Sep, 15 2011 @ 07:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by RisenAngel77 What mistake is that? trying to achieve balance? The unity of the yin and yang? Peace and harmony? Utopia?


One man's peace and harmony is another man's prison.
One man's Utopia is another man's hell.

We have to live together on this planet. You can't go making laws and imposing YOUR idea of harmony and Utopia on others. You're seeing things from your own viewpoint and not considering that others don't agree on your idea of Utopia.



Then let me ask you, what would you do? promote more wars instead of peace and love?


Promote freedom. Live and let live.



Point is, people who show no compassion do not contribute positively towards humanity.


Nice sweeping judgment there.
You can't force people to be compassionate or to behave according to your morals. You assume that a society that's forced to ACT compassionately will be better. But start silencing people and you're going to see a lot of compassion for those who are being silenced according to your world view.



I never promoted anything that forces someone to silence anyone.


What are you suggesting then? Your OP has been edited so I'm not sure what was there, but it seemed that you were suggesting that others be forced to act according to your wishes.



I am talking revolution that would bring us close to evolution as a species and think outside the box.


What does that mean? Specifically. It's so vague, I don't know what you mean.


Originally posted by muzzleflash
I can ignore my two kids when they are yelling and screaming, and they are way worse than some lousy protesters. It can be done.


People seem to have forgotten their own power to control their environment without the help and protection of the government. I'm so sick of people complaining that the government is too big, while from the other side of their mouths, they're calling for more regulation of PERSONAL behaviors!

If that's not what the OP is calling for, he/she needs to be more specific.

My solution: PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. That means that I decide for ME, to be accountable for all of MY actions and their consequences. That's it. I cannot and should not demand that anyone else take on this position. It's not for me to dictate how others live. My peace is my responsibility. It's NOT other people's fault if I'm unhappy or uncomfortable.

It's NOT Fred Phelp's fault that people aren't mourning their dead.
edit on 9/15/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2011 @ 08:38 AM
link   
Sigh...you guys do not see the big picture of this idea. I wont argue here, there is just no point to continue arguing.

humanity lacks compassion and understanding.
The world will enter chaos while humanity keeps acting childish towards one another.


but you are right, no point in trying to fix whats broken. Noone else suggested a way to fix it, I bravely came forwards and suggested an Idea that is about balance, to do what we want when we want while not hurting others.

The idea is to take responsibility into ourselves. And act compassionate.

But thank you for proving that the world has no hope. Since I saw noone else suggesting a solution.



I am out this was a waste of time.
edit on 15-9-2011 by RisenAngel77 because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join