Thread in Support of the Official Story

Well, you asked for it. Here it is. I am providing the link to the American Society of Civil Engineers Pentagon Building Performance Study.

fire.nist.gov...

It supports the official story. Have at it.

Then we'll move on to the other reports.
No personal incredulity please!

The offical story meaning how a jumbo jet somehow completely vaporized on impact except for one of the engines
which was from another class of aircraft all together?

So you got the civil engineers looking at completely dynamic impact? Where are the Mechanical/Chemical engineers input?

Also, I'm not going to believe a word NIST or the government tells me about the pentagon when they are still holding over 80 video feeds directly filming the impact and arn't releasing under "national security."

The only data release of the actual impact is 5 frames? where you can't see anything? except....no jet.

reply to post by hooper

Well, you asked for it. Here it is. I am providing the link to the American Society of Civil Engineers Pentagon Building Performance Study.

Civil Engineers won't lie ?

They won't be bribed ?

Is that true?

reply to post by Vardoger

Also, I'm not going to believe a word NIST or the government tells me about the pentagon when they are still holding over 80 video feeds directly filming the impact and arn't releasing under "national security."

I think that they can do all kinds of researches in particular situations like this.

May be I am a civil engineer ??

reply to post by hooper


on page 19 the arial veiw. Are my old eyes failing or is the shadow of the plane different from all the other shadows being cast? I.E. on the wrong side.

Seriously?

I thought you had found something new to bring to the table. Some irrefutable evidence that at last would bring about a conclusion to to the conspiracies surronding the events of 9/11.

Why am I not surprised you would bring this? Just surprised you didn't bring along the 9/11 commission report.

reply to post by hmdphantom


Maybe I am a Mechanical.... that fight won't ever end ha! Civils vs Mechs foreva!

Back on track, yes we could study the damage done to the pentagon for years. I just don't understand the point of the report. No one is debating that the pentagon got hit and suffered damage. The damage sustained and the "debris" left behind are whats under debate for not being consistent with a jumbo jet impact. But hey, if you really want to convince me, then release the footage....what you scared it might show something different?

reply to post by Vardoger

The offical story meaning how a jumbo jet somehow completely vaporized on impact....

Please find in the report I linked where it is stated that the plane "completely vaporized on impact".

Otherwise you are just arguing with yourself.

reply to post by hmdphantom

Civil Engineers won't lie ?
They won't be bribed ?
Is that true?

That's it? Thats the basis for the conspiracy? That anyone who says something you don't like is lying? Wow.

Originally posted by colin42
reply to post by hooper

 

on page 19 the arial veiw. Are my old eyes failing or is the shadow of the plane different from all the other shadows being cast? I.E. on the wrong side.

You realize that the aerial photo has been MODIFIED to show the approach of the plane. The plane is not actually in the photo. It says its been modified. So the shadow may not be perfectly representative.

reply to post by Cobaltic1978

Seriously?

Yep, and so far I have incredulity, accusations of lying, misrepresentation and misreading.

I thought you had found something new to bring to the table.

Sorry, the truth doesn't change over time.

Some irrefutable evidence that at last would bring about a conclusion to to the conspiracies surronding the events of 9/11.

Well, actually, there are no conspiracies surrounding the event and it is concluded.

Why am I not surprised you would bring this?

You shouldn't be. Someone wanted a thread about the "official story" what else would I bring? Catcher in the Rye?

Just surprised you didn't bring along the 9/11 commission report.

One thing at a time.

reply to post by hooper

That's it? Thats the basis for the conspiracy? That anyone who says something you don't like is lying? Wow.

No, That is not it.

I told you this to consider a probability for things that I said.

I think that you should look at the big picture.

The whole story is a mixture of facts and lies.

Facts

It was an attack to terror people.
Many people died.

Lies

It was done by OBL (Taliban).

Result

A: OBL attacked American soil.
B: OBL is in Afghanistan.
A+B = We should Attack Afghan people.
( getting wrong result from an statement ) : Manipulation.
+ maybe you argue with me that it was done by OBL . Even if OBL did it, What did Afghan people do wrong ? Why should they be killed ?

reply to post by hooper


Where is it then? did it burn? disintegrate? vanish? alien took it? but then thought it to be wise to at least leave something and not knowing what engine to use drop whatever one they happened to have in stock on their mother ship?

Big question with the pentagon is. Where is the jet?
a) Leading up to impact
b) Directly before impact (I guess that one frame is supposed to show the nose?)
c) During Impact (I guess the whole length is covered by the fireball eh?)
d) After impact (clean up? oh right...spare parts pick up)

Releasing the 80+ video feeds should clear all that up anything else is an educated guess.

reply to post by hmdphantom

Any answers?

Any questions?

Never mind. I really don't what you are getting at. OBL was the leader of an organization that orchestrated 9/11. He was known to be in Afghanistan. We requested that the then government of Afghanistan turn him over for trial. They refused. They were also offering support to the organization. We went to get him and terminate the organization. Could have been avoided.

reply to post by hooper


The question : What did Afghan people do wrong ? Why should they be killed ?

We requested that the then government of Afghanistan turn him over for trial. They refused

Any documents on that ?

Thank you for replies.

reply to post by hmdphantom

The question : What did Afghan people do wrong ?

The "people" via their government were harboring a terrorist and terror organization that was responsible for the murder of 3000 citizens of another country.

Why should they be killed ?

You should ask the Afghan people, they are doing most of the killing. If any of the Afghan "people" were responsible for 9/11 what would you suggest? Cookies? If you attack another country and kill its citizens you shouldn't expect flowers and kudos.

Any documents on that ?

Thats common knoweldge. It was all over the news, I believe GW Bush even spoke to the issue publically.

Thank you for replies.

Any comments about the ASCE report?

Although the OS story sounds rather simplified and hard to believe it is certainly more believable than that of the Truthers movement.


My personal opinion and that is all its is, is that the Most protected nation on the planet got to big for its boots and dismissed any possibility of being attacked on its own soil. So when this 9/11 attack happened they were dumbstruck and panicked. They ran around like headless chickens not knowing what to really do, having so many people in power calling the shots it became a muddled mess and everything went to S***.

It must of been the most embarrassing thing to any government let alone the big bad USA to be handed a whooping on home soil. They had to present a story that did not make them look so bad and struck back the only way they know how....going to war with the most likely of suspects.

reply to post by Vardoger

Where is it then?

I really don't know where the remains of Flight 77 reside. Call American Airlines. Or the FBI. Or sit in front of your computer and challenge anonymous posters on the internet to provide you with evidence. But if that is the path you choose to search for the "truth" then so be it.

did it burn?

I am sure some of it did.

disintegrate?

If you mean break apart into smaller units, yes.

vanish?

Do you think that anything you can't see must have vanished? When you close your eyes does the world disppear?

alien took it?

Hmmmm, all those options and you forgot about the one that included the remains of the plane were collected and are being stored.

....but then thought it to be wise to at least leave something and not knowing what engine to use drop whatever one they happened to have in stock on their mother ship?

Yeah, thats the ticket. Well, that and all those pieces they picked up.

Big question with the pentagon is. Where is the jet?
a) Leading up to impact

Huh? Well, its outside the building. How far back do you want to go?

b) Directly before impact (I guess that one frame is supposed to show the nose?)

Directly outside the building.

c) During Impact (I guess the whole length is covered by the fireball eh?)

In the building?

d) After impact (clean up? oh right...spare parts pick up)

Still in the building. And then clean up. You did expect to eventually clean up the site, correct? Or should they have waited till you had a chance to walk through?

Releasing the 80+ video feeds should clear all that up anything else is an educated guess.

There is a detailed list available on the internet of all those videos, please indicate the ones you want released. Better yet, file a FOIA request. But I forget, that's not the path to "truth" you have choosen.

reply to post by Six6Six


Actually I think the problem was and still may be that the USA has always been ready to defend itself against a true attack, one where the threat is against the nation. However, 9/11 was not an attack in the traditional military/political sense. There was never a threat to our form of government or nation. It was an act of mass murder, more a criminal event then a military event. That is where our form of government has always been weak. That thin gray area between acts of war and criminal acts. Our military and our civilian authorities have different missions.

Originally posted by Vardoger
Also, I'm not going to believe a word NIST or the government tells me about the pentagon ...

This isn't a government publication, it's an ASCE publication. The six authors were split evenly between government employees (ACE, ATF, and NIST) and private citizens. The government employees' specialties were mostly duplicated by the private citizens, providing a check on their claims. None of the ten reviewers were government employees. Of the 21 other named contributors, only five were affiliated with the US government (three from ACE, one from NTSB, and an MIT doctoral candidate doing a co-op at NTSB). To characterize this as what "the government tells" you about the Pentagon is fairly inaccurate.