..me or your own eyes?"

That, to me, sums up the rebuttals to the original thread posting here, in which links are provided showing Oswald in the doorway , where he said he was, and wearing the clothes he was arrested in.

Asking us to believe not what we see but what 'expert skeptics and party-liners' tell us to is akin to the controversy surrounding the Rodney King [police-beating] video.
No, we didn't see frustrated and angry cops beating the # of of some helpless black arrestee...we 'actually saw a perp provoking his own ass-kicking by repeatedly trying to stand up, as anyone can clearly see in slow motion"...
yeah, right...and the cops, I suppose, were watching it in slow motion, too I bet.

About facial recognition and the science behind it..there are computer models for accurate face recognition which are modelled on how humans recognize faces despite variants in mood, expression, facial hair, the wearing of glasses, etc...
If you 'recognize' Oswald in the doorway photo it is because your brain, without your being conscious of it, has run the image through the processors to come up with a match somewhere in your previously recorded impressions; of a face seen in your lifetime that is known to be relevant to your experience...important or significant, symbolic, famous..a 'recognized' face.
And that means in all likelihood your brain is absolutely right...that it IS Oswald...and that you should 'believe your own eyes'....that's what they are for.

PS- Throw away the bone measurement and hairline experts, and the fashion consultants, too...run a face recognition program through the modern software, unbiased and see what the computer at..Heathrow or London Yard says.

did anyone see the special a while back that appeared on let me see......i THINK it was discovery channel.........where they go back and investigate history and put TODAY'S science against the historical accounts......they did Custer's Last Stand which was really really cool.

anyway..........they did the JFK assasination. they had an identical vehicle, with people inside it..........a sharp shooter on a tower that was the exact height of the book depository and angle of the shooter, and the same type rifle that oswald used.

they ran the test several different ways......first several times the vehicle was towed at the exact same speed as the kennedy vehicle......and there were people in the vehicle placed exactly as the originals.........

the shooter was using a laser on the gun...........so when he aimed you could see exactly where he was aiming..........he didn't fire a shot.....just cking for the angle to see if it was possible or not........

he matched the angle exactly.

on the next run thru..........the people were replaced with figures and the kennedy replica had a watermelon for a head............with the exact dimensions of kennedys' head.

this time the shooter used the weapon with live rounds...........and he successfully fired off the 3 rounds within the allotted time frame AND he blew the watermelon to smithereens.

he successfully worked the bolt action rifle 3 times and discharged 3 rounds.

if you conspiracy buffs haven't seen that show..........you should find the videos and rent them...........

very fascinating stuff!!

angie

[edit on 19-1-2005 by amb1063]

Originally posted by amb1063
did anyone see the special a while back that appeared on let me see......i THINK it was discovery channel.........where they go back and investigate history and put TODAY'S science against the historical accounts......they did Custer's Last Stand which was really really cool.

anyway..........they did the JFK assasination. they had an identical vehicle, with people inside it..........a sharp shooter on a tower that was the exact height of the book depository and angle of the shooter, and the same type rifle that oswald used.

they ran the test several different ways......first several times the vehicle was towed at the exact same speed as the kennedy vehicle......and there were people in the vehicle placed exactly as the originals.........

the shooter was using a laser on the gun...........so when he aimed you could see exactly where he was aiming..........he didn't fire a shot.....just cking for the angle to see if it was possible or not........

he matched the angle exactly.

on the next run thru..........the people were replaced with figures and the kennedy replica had a watermelon for a head............with the exact dimensions of kennedys' head.

this time the shooter used the weapon with live rounds...........and he successfully fired off the 3 rounds within the allotted time frame AND he blew the watermelon to smithereens.

he successfully worked the bolt action rifle 3 times and discharged 3 rounds.

if you conspiracy buffs haven't seen that show..........you should find the videos and rent them...........

very fascinating stuff!!

angie

[edit on 19-1-2005 by amb1063]

Did the rifleman score above the level of "Sharpshooter" in the Marines (or in the Army)?

Did the rifleman use the alleged murder weapon itself, or another Carcano with a difficult bolt and an odd trigger pull?

Did the rifleman have little target practice during the forty days prior to the test?

Was the window from which the rifleman shot have two pipes to its left on the inside? These pipes must be positioned so that they inhibit the riflemen from firing markedly to their right.

If a different Carcano is used, was it established, by expert shooters who fire the rifle just to see how fast it can be operated (with or without minimal accuracy), that the weapon cannot be fired faster than 2.3 seconds per shot?

Did the rifleman fire from a window that was open by no more than 15 inches?

This has been solved. at the time JFK was due to sign his official support for legislation outlawing cider and pixistix, he had to be stopped!

Of course there's a conspiracy here...

If NOT, then you'd have to believe...

1. in "magic" bullets that defy physics....
2. that Oswald could somehow fire a bolt action rifle faster than humanly possible.

There is NO doubt in anyone's mind (with an ounce of logic) that Oswald was only one of multiple shooters.

As for WHY JFK was killed, there's almost too many motives to even BEGIN to try and track any one of them down. The man made a pastime out of creating an enemy daily.

He wanted to end the war, go to the gold standard, bring down the mob, eliminate the CIA...man, where do you start???

"Did the rifleman score above the level of "Sharpshooter" in the Marines (or in the Army)?

Did the rifleman use the alleged murder weapon itself, or another Carcano with a difficult bolt and an odd trigger pull?

Did the rifleman have little target practice during the forty days prior to the test?

Was the window from which the rifleman shot have two pipes to its left on the inside? These pipes must be positioned so that they inhibit the riflemen from firing markedly to their right.

If a different Carcano is used, was it established, by expert shooters who fire the rifle just to see how fast it can be operated (with or without minimal accuracy), that the weapon cannot be fired faster than 2.3 seconds per shot?

Did the rifleman fire from a window that was open by no more than 15 inches?"


thanks for your response..........
1)unfortunately i can't remember the name of the person used as the marksman. i do remember he was considered to be an authority on sharp shooting.........but can't remember his name. sorry.

2) and again..........i'm sorry but i don't remember the details on the weapon.........if it was the EXACT gun or not.........i remember it was the SAME model weapon..........with bolt action and i DO remember watching him work the bolt and it didn't work smoothly.

3)i have no idea about the man's practice beforehand.

4)the shooter was stationed in a tower (similar to a watch tower for fires) the elevation was the same...........the shot through the window was the same angle......whether there were pipes present........i have no idea.

5)there was a stopwatch on the shooter. once the clock began he made 3 shots within the time frame that oswald did.

6)again............the angle,elevation and opening were the same......the best of my memory.

i didn't put out my info as the end all be all final word on the assasination of JFK. i merely brought out this particular program..........one that put the science of today against a horrific incident from the past.

i failed to mention they also timed the walk that oswald took.........trying to see if he could have actually made this walk in the time frame..........

as i said................the program was very very interesting.

if its ever on tv again..............its well worth the watch.

angie

Whether or not the badgeman photo can be proved to be Tippit....I have always wondered about him. Very little was ever mentioned, I have seen no specials detailing his life, no photos of his funeral....he was but a footnote, almost totally ignored.

Yet, you would think that his part in the 'discovery' of the supposed assasin should have been enough to make him a popular hero. I always thought it was a bit odd that he was hardly mentioned, that there was almost an effort to ignore any details about him.....

He has always been one of my personal choices for the shooter on the grassy knoll...just because he was treated so indifferently.

( On a side note about the brain of JFK being missing.....years ago I watched a segment of a morning news program--perhaps the Today show- where an author was being interviewed. He had been an intern in the Parkland hospital on that day...but he had waited until he retired to write a book about his experience. He said that he had passed by Jackie where she was sitting, and noticed that in her open handbag there lay a 'large piece' of brain tissue.---does anyone know what book that would be? Has anyone read any thing similar, or remember seeing that interview??)

[edit on 20-1-2005 by frayed1]

frayed1 I do recall reading that she had brain tissue all over her suit and refused to take it off even when a group of women bought her clean clothes, she said she wanted them to see what they had done to her husband if I recall correctly. If you look at any footage or photos of LBJ being sworn in as President, he asked that she be there, she is still wearing the pink suit. Larry King did interview the governor's wife Mrs. Connally (I hope thats right) who was in the car that day, this past year. I know there are transcripts of this if you want to read it, you should be able to find it through CNN and the Larry King show. Now this is totally based on a faulty memory so don't know how much stalk I would put in it but in my foggy little mind I keep thinking that I read that when they first got to the hospital Jackie handed someone on the staff a chunk of the skull and brain tissue but i can't recall where I heard this or read it so I am not sure about it plus there were so many horror stories told about that day thorugh the rag magazines and if thats where I read it, well ........

[edit on 20-1-2005 by goose]

The Zapruder film:

Is that film legit? It certainly looks as though bullets were flying from the FRONT, not from the back. Was Oswald supposed to be behind the car? Also, at the rate of speed the car was travelling, they better have had a few gunmen at different angles to get the job done. I would like someone to reply here with some conviction: How many gunmen? Why? and some good books to read about it.

Wow, thanks for the info, sounds great! Well, you know what I mean.

OK, as Agent Cooper from Twin Peaks used to say, "I have done some spulunking." That is a great site you directed me too and from what I have read, makes a lot of sense. OK, as for the number of shooters, from one of the videos that is on that site, an original piece shortly after the assasination, it looks as though there were 4 shooters! Two on the grassy knoll, and two in buildings behind. According to that film, there were a total of 5 shots! And it does look like it finally makes sense when the 5 shots that hit are factored in. Here is how it goes, according to that clip:

Shot 1: Hit Kennedy in the Neck which came from a shooter on the grassy knoll (rightmost position) in the FRONT of the car.

Shot 2: Hit Connally and was fired from BEHIND him on the 6th story of the leftmost building behind the car, hitting him from the back piercing his lung, then through to his wrist and finally his knee.

Shot 3: Hit Kennedy. Actually 2 shots here, both from BEHIND coming from the rightmost building on the 6th? floor behind the car, which hit in the back center about 4" below the back of Kennedy's neck and then the SECOND bullet fired from that same location hit Kennedy's head in the back.

Shot 4 (well, 5): Hit Kennedy in the head from the FRONT fired from the grassy knoll which was that disgusting, fatal shot and came from a shooter positioned to the leftmost part of the grassy knoll. This shot came about 1000th of second after shot 4, the shot that got Kennedy in the back of the head.

In the Zapruder film, it does appear that the chain of events outlined here explain the movement of Kennedy and Connally in the car.

A question follows from this: which bullet was the one that keep on and hit that guy Togue, who was standing by the overpass?

Also, if Files is who he says - the guy who delivered the final shot from the grassy knoll, why was he kept alive this long? He is in prison but it seems stupid to kill so many involved but keep one of the major players alive. That said, there is some fairly convincing stuff on that site.

So, comments?

[edit on 23-1-2005 by freudling]

Well I like what you said Fruedling, you shortened down the info into key critical events. Although as for the entire story I still have some skepticism about the particulars of the hit and the chain of command.

Also the use of Oswald as a decoy, and having a different mob informat intend to kill Oswald at the scene before Ruby eventually did. This mob informat who File's would not call out (cuz hes still alive) was supposedly the real person who shot Tippit and not Oswald. I find this particular peice of the puzzle interesting since some of the Tippit murder witnesses were not convinced that Oswald was the shooter of Tippit at that scene.

I'm sure the truth or something close enough to it, is floating amongst certain political groups, senate members for years now. There must be old school politicians that have good inklings towards the culprits, but sadly they will probably only fork those over on they're death beds.

I'm sure Ted Kennedy has his suspicisions and informants that know certain dark, deep politicals rumors or rumorwills at that, which would shed light on the chain of command of this assassination.

You'd have to figure alot of old time politicians have certain strong opinions and information that could be very useful.

Jack Ruby always said there was a conspiracy from the videos I saw him talk to the press in. I believe theres some hints dropped in those Ruby interviews that are not only on that site, but elsewhere aswell. Jack Ruby once convicted was certainly going to look out for nobody but himself, and try to profit off the 'conspiracy' idea. He spent alot of years in jail before he died, whoever served alongside a cell with him must know something. Word on the underground gets around, I'm sure it did back then.

However the first person that came to mind is a Young George Bush Sr.

It has always been obvious that oswald didn't do it. Why else would someone like jack ruby just walk up and shoot him? Jack ruby was a pawn too. He sacrificed his freedom for something and I gurantee you it was not revenge for jfk. It has always been obvious oswald was innocent.

The driver shot JFK, wake up!

OK, I did some more spulunking and after watching Oliver Stone's JFK (1991), here is the shot sequence, amended from my previous post:

Shot 1: Missed completely

Shots 2-4 are the same as I outlined above.

Shot 5 missed and hit Tague by the Overpass

Shot 6: The final head shot from the grassy knoll (leftmost side)