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The Sun is going down on Atheism

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posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


ahha - but during the age of Age of Aries the sun god archetype would be portrayed as some kind of Sheppard – so any dude carrying a sheep is going to represent the avatar of the age of Aries or anyone killing a bull signifying the end of the age of Taurus

so Mithras slaying the bull
0.tqn.com...
or
Moses with horns (Aries)
soholmweb.dk...

golden calf (age of Taurus)
jesusastrotheology.com...

or Apollo (sun god) as the good shepherd
www.wetcanvas.com...
or
1.bp.blogspot.com...

and so on

next up would be Jesus and fishy symbolism

and after him a dude carrying water

Luke 22:10
And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.

(what do you think – mystery school teaching about the coming ago of Aquarius?)




posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


I didn’t watch your videos, 2012 has no significance in regards to astrological age (or anything else as far as I can see)


Start here
en.wikipedia.org...

I’m guessing even you know the earths axis is tilted
en.wikipedia.org...

something on astrological age
en.wikipedia.org...


in astrology, an astrological age has usually been defined by the constellation or superimposed sidereal zodiac in which the Sun actually appears at the vernal equinox



note: zeitgeist had problems – but I’m talking about astronomy 101, if you have doubts about what I have put here ask anyone interested in astronomy to confirm this information



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by racasan
 


don't ask me to read your stuff then! fair is fair. the book of revelation, chapter 12 is ALL ABOUT THE PRECESSION OF THE EQUINOXES, QUIT TREATING ME LIKE AN IDIOT, THANK YOU.

ahem.





I’m guessing even you know the earths axis is tilted


look at this freakin' bs crapola garbage. "even i" ? don't get me started!!





edit on 16-9-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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Revelation 12

1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

PRECESSION OF THE EQUINOXES. videos i linked provided lots of additional data on the subject some of which corroborates zeitgeist and some of which doesn't. . revelation, as a prophetical text, is multilayered. one layer, describes events in the sky. it's a calendar based on precession of the equinoxes. i study this stuff. sigh, i don't know why i come to ats. it's like asking to be insulted repeatedly.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 07:10 PM
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Moses was his egyptian name. He was named after the pharaoh, Ahmose. His name means "child of the moon" in egyptian. the moon wandered all over the sinai, if we use the zeitgeist method of interpretation. or we could just admit that people of prominence had titles of authority and symbols of authority, relating to the precessional age in which they held sway.




posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 02:33 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


Let’s start somewhere we might both agree

About 8000-6000 years ago, stone circles where being built all over Europe and the Middle East – Stonehenge and that kind of thing

The design of these stone circles suggests that they where used to find the sun on certain days (mid winter, mid summer and the 2 equinoxes)

So these stone circles are most likely some kind of calendar and a reliable calendar is a necessary step in making agriculture efficient enough to feed a large population – knowing when to plant and harvest - that kind of thing, basically the first step to making civilizations


Before the stone circles are built:
While observing the night sky, people would have grouped the stars into constellations (sky pictures) and then made up stories about those constellations as memory aids (you know – when that group of stars over there that looks a bit like a giant man is visible then winter is near – that sort of thing)

So we end up with a small group, telling stories about the sky filled with gods/giants/monsters ect, and these story tellers can also give you valuable information as to when to plant your crops

These story tellers would also need their stone circles building eventually (so as to make better observations) so the population would have to be taxed (perhaps 1/10 of their produce) as up-keep for the stone circles and as wages for the story tellers

A work force would be needed to build the stone circles – no doubt made up of people who had been celebrating the mid winter, mid summer and the 2 equinoxes as holy days and who had long ago come to associate the appearance of the "group of stars that looks a bit like a giant man" as the thing which was rewarding them with their harvest for been good and doing what the story tellers told them to do (no matter how gross)

These story tellers are still telling the same story all these years later and the stories are still tales about the sun/stars/calendars but you would need to be initiated into their mysteries to actually understand the stories (or have an interest in astronomy)



edit on 17-9-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by racasan
 


actually, i think it's more indepth than that, just based on my research thus far. the as above so below thing seems to suggest that stories on the earth, of big political or social importance, were depicted in the heavens. it doesn't mean the events never happened, just that if it was below it was also above, and they tried to use the events in the heavens to direct their lives. the hebrews used the heavens for the purpose of planting, harvesting, special feast days, and also for measuring time and prophecy. you really should watch the videos i linked. the guy is rather soft spoken but he has alot of excellent material in those videos, about the precession of the equinoxes.

also, i studied stonehenge many years ago. i've also studied the pyramids at giza, the osirieon at abydos, the etemenanki of babylon, the white pyramid of china, the e.abzu at eridu, the e.kur at nibru (nippur), and other ancient buildings. i've studied the constellations, astronomy, the space program, and the history of several ancient cultures, as well as their linguistics, the etymology of their words and comparative analysis between bordering cultures and traditions. i'm not a dunce. you may not agree with me, but at least i'm not just quoting scripture at ya. i can if you like tho.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:44 AM
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Originally posted by templar knight
Where do I start? - The Op made a very valid point about the volume of people who believe in God and actually we should be looking at evolutionary reasons why this is. I believe that there is an advantage to believing in God but have not figured it out. Interestingly scientists have shown that pigeons are superstitious. They make set patterns when grabbing food - when it is delivered at random times in a laboratory. So the need to believe in God may be in other animals as well.

As for Christian, aetheist or any values - these are the values that we need to get on. Fundamentally we are pack animals and need to work together to survive, Christianity spells out / makes clear those values. Had we been lone animals like e.g. a Lion with a group of Lionesses then our values would be completely different and the current Christian values would be positively heretic.

Still good point about numbers if the rest of the Op was simply playing to stereotypes.


No he DIDN'T make a valid point about the amount of people....etc.

The semantic juggling to make it LOOK like that would be a disgrace for anyone knowing how to make and present statistics, so I can only hope the author did from from ignorance instead of consciously producing a scam.

The proper category for this subject is 'metaphysics', which has an only peripheral association with any specific religion.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
This topic hasn't turned out the way i had hoped and ive requested for it to be closed.


You mean your semantical juggling of false categories into scam statistics have been questioned.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by David291
A question:

If jesus died for our sins, why is sin still such an issue? In my opinion him dying for our sins did nothing...nada...didly squat. Look around, take a nice look around the world and maybe, just maybe you will see how all loving your god is.
edit on 14/9/11 by David291 because: (no reason given)


Read the bible. The very fact Jesus died for you has given you redemption, forgiveness. If only you'll accept it.


Brilliant.

A fact is a fact if you accept it as a fact.

This is unfortunately only true OUTSIDE objective procedure.

And 'statistically' only a few percent ideological extremists actively deny objective procedure as their pragmatic choice as a basis for functional existence.

If you want to bring in an epistemological perspective on 'truth', feel free. But considering the way you have handled statistics, logic and semantics I'm sceptical already from the start. After all statistics, logic and semantics are EASY to grasp and use correctly.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Annee
 


it doesn't matter what you call it. in this example, or for this purpose. its what the text called it. that's the point. you asked for an example that the bible had ultimate truth in it, of any kind, and i was just pointing out that science has actually shown that the first 2 verses in genesis are more accurate than most of us have even known for thousands of years. we only recently, at the street level, found out this data.


WHAT science "has actually shown the two first verses in genesis .....etc".

For the record I would just like to repeat once again, that there is a world of difference between REAL science and hijacked, 'adapted' science.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:41 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


statistically, most people on planet earth can't read, spell properly, or use proper punctuation. don't downplay other people's accomplishments just because you're such an intellectual power house. i recall being told as a teenager, why education was more important than rock concerts. then i finally saw the light and went off to become a book-reading fanatic. i couldn't learn enough! i was hungry for knowledge. now i'm told that the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of years of study and contemplation means precisely nothing, and in fact, proves i'm an idiot, if my findings vary in anyway whatsoever, from someone else's. listen, i could be one of those statistics that can't read or spell properly, i think i'm doing pretty good.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 





WHAT science "has actually shown the two first verses in genesis .....etc".



Google Video Link


all you have to do to find out, is study the text in its original language, genesis 1:1-2

the book of enoch (not in the bible, considered hebrew pseudigraphia) has an astounding description of an active galaxy. the book itself, was found amongst the dead sea scrolls and in the scriptural archives of the ethiopians. it's real eye brow raiser.
edit on 17-9-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:53 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by bogomil
 


statistically, most people on planet earth can't read, spell properly, or use proper punctuation. don't downplay other people's accomplishments just because you're such an intellectual power house. i recall being told as a teenager, why education was more important than rock concerts. then i finally saw the light and went off to become a book-reading fanatic. i couldn't learn enough! i was hungry for knowledge. now i'm told that the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of years of study and contemplation means precisely nothing, and in fact, proves i'm an idiot, if my findings vary in anyway whatsoever, from someone else's. listen, i could be one of those statistics that can't read or spell properly, i think i'm doing pretty good.


It would be easier to respond to this, if I knew what of my comments you are referring to.

But for the duration my statement on pseudo-science(/and pseudo-logic) stands. And I can add. Most of it is bosh.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 05:00 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


depends. one guy's bosh is another guy's science. i'm sure you don't need to be reminded of mistakes made in science, religion, medicine, culture, and even mistakes made in your own life experiences. the idea that any one position could be so perfectly cemented into place that literally nothing can challenge it, ever, is really not supposed to be the domain of science but of religion. what's that saying "the more i learn, the more i realize how much i don't know"? are you saying science has changed its stance from being one of constant exploration to one of "We don't need to know anything else?" i'm sure you don't mean for it to sound that way, but it does.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 06:14 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


You wrote:

["depends. one guy's bosh is another guy's science."]

I'm fully aware of that. But self-definition makes hijacking into intellectual dishonesty, and turns the hijacker into something untrustworthy and unreliable. A scam.

Quote: ["i'm sure you don't need to be reminded of mistakes made in science, religion, medicine, culture, and even mistakes made in your own life experiences."]

Yes, my position is that of a philosophical scepticist, so I'm quite well-informed concerning the shortcomings of truth/reality-seeking systems.

Quote: [" the idea that any one position could be so perfectly cemented into place that literally nothing can challenge it, ever, is really not supposed to be the domain of science but of religion."]

I'm also familiar with ultimate uncertainty and doesn't operate from a basis of 'absolutes', such as many theists do. A rational position here is 'agnosticism'.

Quote: ["what's that saying "the more i learn, the more i realize how much i don't know"?]

That saying is a semantic conctruct of little value. Mankind has an increasing amount of knowledge and find increasingly more questions. I don't share the black/white attitude you seem to present here.

Quote: ["are you saying science has changed its stance from being one of constant exploration to one of "We don't need to know anything else?" i'm sure you don't mean for it to sound that way, but it does."]

It may sound this way to you, and I admit to on occasion being both quite abstract and bringing up complex contexts, but I do take it for granted, that anyone venturing into science/logic at least should know the basic structure of real science/logic before making comments on it or use it.

And as to the question itself: "No", science needs to 'grow' and is not the exclusive answer.

Such an uninformed use of science/logic is imo clearly manifested in OP, and later posts from the author accentuates this. Recently the 'arguments' have been the standard christian circular arguments, socalled (an ironic name) napkin'ism...~...."It's true, because it's written here, that it's true".

Meeting with rational opposition the thread author has fallen back on common faith-claims, so now we once again have a faith vs. facts debate, with an invasive missionary standing on feet of clay.



edit on 17-9-2011 by bogomil because: spelling and addition



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


If I’m right and the development of agriculture/civilisation/calendars is the source of what has become the current religions – why the need for it to be more than that?


There are some numbers that all sun based religions incorporate into their tales

4 = as in the four seasons - the year divided into 4 by the equinoxes/mid (summer/winter) days

12 = months (moons) or 12 constellations that make up the zodiac (the constellations the sun appears to pass through during the year)

Like this (oldest conceptual images in human history)
lh3.googleusercontent.com...

3= Sun at the winter solstice stays at it’s furthest South point for three days, before it begins its return North (the solar hero said to be dead for 3 days)

and the religion will have holy days that fall on the equinoxes and mid summer/mid winter

An example


Jonah 1:17: “Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.”

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


So 3 days has to be the sun
great fish = constellation of piscis austrinus (Piscis Notius)
check out:
www.constellationsofwords.com...

and the constellation of great fish is or was in the right place in midwinter to be associated with the solar death/birth myth in Babylonian times

These stories (in the bible for example) are meant to be read on two levels

First- by the uninitiated - the goyim, as simple true stories that they are told not to question or disbelieve or they will suffer for ever – believe or be dammed

Second- by the illuminated as bits of useful information



edit on 17-9-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by racasan
 



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


well i'm with him about ancient history. i don't think it's nearly as unscientific as people believe today. in fact, i think the only thing that's really unscientific about it, is how people have mistranslated it and taught it, over the years.
edit on 17-9-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


But I’m talking about science – simple observational astronomy anybody with a functioning eye could do

What is interesting is how come this information became hidden (occult)?

And look at it this way, if the theory I put forward in my earlier post about how the first observational astronomers (story tellers) became the first priests – then there’s a very good chance that

A/ they are still around (consider the fuss about the new age and the dawning of the Age of Aquarius)

B/ they are the source of Above Top Secret’s much talked about “The Powers That Be”



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