Allegedly don't pay child support? No trial for you

reply to post by sonnny1


No, not at all. I'm still on the same page and I'll stand my ground.

Most non-custodial fathers just don't want to pay child support or only want to pay what they deem fit.

It aint happening Sonny! Get used to it. There are elements within the system that is rotten to the core but the only thing that sticks out like a sore thumb that needs to change are men who are paying child support for a child who is not biologically theirs.

reply to post by bluemirage5


I disagree.

That is a very dangerous notion. I know many good men that have raised children that were not their own. They are the "Dad" of that child. If a biological father suddenly shows up in the picture, he should not have equal rights. If we enforce what you say, then it works both ways. If we say the biological children are entirely equal under the law, even though one lives with some new family and one lives with the parent, then we are saying a biological father has equal rights to be involved with that child, and that could be dangerous.

I literally know of families forced to get divorces, just to help even out the child support payments. A man can have an illegitimate child he didn't even know about, and then 3 new kids with a good wife and a good family life, and all of a sudden it is turned upside down because the 1st child suddenly gets awarded child support. They can take up to 55% for that 1 child. So, his 3 existing children and family suffer greatly. The only real way to combat it is to divorce his current wife, and file 3 new child support cases so that his kids can get a decent share of that 55%!!

Do you really think we should be breaking up happy families just so the father can afford to support them?

reply to post by bluemirage5


I'm sorry, but you are just plain wrong.

There are some dead beat dads. No doubt about it, but they don't make up the majority. I worked in child support enforcement for the state for a couple of years, and the vast majority of these cases are unfair. They are unfair to all parties involved. The system is entirely broken. It was well-intentioned, but it doesn't work.

I still have many close friends working in that department and I talk to them daily. It is continually getting worse, not better.

And, you would be shocked at the number of deadbeat moms out there. In fact, everyone I have ever worked with hates the non-custodial mothers far worse than the non-custodial fathers. The fathers typically make some kind of effort, but the mothers are pure evil if they are the ones that end up having to pay.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by sonnny1

 

No, not at all. I'm still on the same page and I'll stand my ground.

Most non-custodial fathers just don't want to pay child support or only want to pay what they deem fit.

It aint happening Sonny! Get used to it. There are elements within the system that is rotten to the core but the only thing that sticks out like a sore thumb that needs to change are men who are paying child support for a child who is not biologically theirs.

Only in YOUR Gender Biased world,is any of this acceptable.

I will never get used to this type of thinking.

You would be screaming bloody murder ,if it was the other way around.

Money isnt the solution to having parents raise a child. Having a corrupt system that specifically targets men,isn't going to help ANY child out either.

Giving a child morals and principles should be the first thing,but all you can expound is dead beat fathers should serve time in Debtors prisons.

Sound about right?

reply to post by sonnny1

Giving a child morals and principles should be the first thing,but all you can expound is dead beat fathers should serve time in Debtors prisons.

Luckily Judges see it a different way. I've seen men arrested, owing 10s of 1000s in back child support, and then a Judge release them if they pay $50 or $100. The mothers are always livid, but the Judge's thinking is this. They can't pay anything from prison. The #1 priority is the children. $50 is better than $0 dollars, and we can always arrest them again.

If the mothers truly focused on the children, then they would have the same logic as the judge. $50 for the kids is better than $0 and a man in jail. But instead, most of them want revenge, and they would rather see the man locked up, with no benefit whatsoever to the kid. It is just a vindictive mindset instead of focusing on the children.

So far, every judge I have seen has been able to use common sense and logic and keep the kids at the focal point of their decisions. I hope that never changes.

reply to post by getreadyalready


There are three kinds of dead beat fathers out there:

(a) Those who do not pay child support and those who pay less $ than a can of cat food per month

(b) Those who have nothing to do with the upbringing of their biological children

(c) Those who do none of the both above

All dead beat parents who owe child support, in my opinion, should go to a debtor's jail, put on work release until their child support is paid up.

No, I'm not shocked how many dead beat mothers there are out but they don't rival the number of dead beat fathers.

Secondly; a majority of non-custodial fathers do pay child support, however, how many actually pay a reasonable amount of child support. Is $200 per month for a teen sound reasonable to you? How about $200 per month (not each but...) for all 3 or 4 children sound reasonable to you?

Originally posted by Six6Six
A couple of questions that I am not sure about.

Do women have to pay child support if they don't get the kids?

Yes.

How often do men win the right to have the kids over the mother?[\quote]
rarely, if the mother fights for custody.

For clarification I am asking Americans as they have differing states so I would imagine differing laws regarding Child Support.

Not really. The support laws are pretty much the same, what varies is enforcement and punishment.

My only advise to men (because they are always screwed) is much like a prenuptial get a contract signed before you have kids to say if divorce arises (which in America is almost a 100% certainty) both parent get equal access and both contribute the same.

won't matter. The court views child support as "The child's money"... is ZERO oversight on how the custodial spend it.
Contracts won't work at all.
Today, the most states REQUIRE the non custodial parent to pay them, they take their cut and send the rest to the custodial parent ( the one with custody).
The state makes big money off Child Support.

Now I know women and some types of men will say that women might not be able to contribute as they have stayed at home and do not have a job.

Well what I say is that if it were not for the man being out at work the child and the wife would have nothing. No food on the table, no nice house, no private school education for little Jimmy, No nice car etc (same applys if its the women out at work).

That's 1920's thinking. Courst do not see women differently than men in the case of support.
Both will always have to pay. The state wants their cut from everyone.

WOMEN seem to forget that the man has to sacrifice seeing his kids all day by being at work for the family so that in itself is worth something, that the man quite often has the decency to keep his end of the bargain and let the women stay home all day just looking after the kids and watching day time soaps on TV. Or stop getting Diverced. If you can't keep a relationship then don't have kids. Unfortunately the traditional marriage has long since been flushed down the drain by the feminist woman...the same women who has stayed home all day to look after the kids and now that you have divorced her demands a huge amount of money while still sitting at home on her butt watching tv and getting larger by the day.

Men choose your wives carefully. Otherwise you will get screwed by her and the law over and over.

ya lost me here. It's about the state collecting a % of the money. period.
has nothing to do with male or female.
Ive been there with more than one child. Trust me. It's about the money, not the parents or the child.

until men get the same rights and chance to have the kids as women do, I suggest you have contracts drawn up before you have kids. If she is unwilling to do that, drop her straight away. Women have a cut off limit of around 35 before the chances of having a normal baby are dramatically reduced. We the men need to use this to our advantage and make sure our rights are thought of before we have children with women who can't wait to hit the courts and get a free ride.

edit on 14-9-2011 by Six6Six because: (no reason given)

The courts see the money as the child's, so contracts regarding someone elses money will not fly in court.
You will pay.
You will pay to the court, and they will take their cut.
They then send the rest to the custodial parent to use for the child.
Contracts do not apply here, and will not be valid in Child Support Court.

reply to post by sonnny1


Money is'nt the solution to raising children? Oh, so they should just live on thin air? I know what, lets put all custodial parents and their kids in to tents, can eat out of garbage bins and steal clothes of people's washing lines!

It costs money to raise children whether you are in their lives or not. Nobody else pays for my kids and I sure as hell aint paying for yours!

reply to post by bluemirage5


LIke I said, the system is broken.

No, $200 per month to raise a teen doesn't sound sufficient, but if a father has 4 kids, and is only qualified to wash dishes, then what do you suggest?

On the other hand, does it sound fair that if a mother quits her job, the father's child support goes up? We reward the mother for not contributing any of her own money? In the current system, in my state, that is exactly what happens. The formula uses a combination of both parent's income. If the mother stops making any income, the percentage rolls over to the father, and he makes up the majority of what her contribution would have been.

Also, child support enforcement has grown out of control and is impossible to regulate by humans. The cases are so numerous that only automated systems can even make a dent in it. The automated systems have flaws like you mentioned before. If someone is savvy enough, they know how to make a periodic payment, switch address, switch employer and stay ahead of the system. There is no solution for that, because there are just far too many millions of cases out there. We could dedicate the entire state government to the enforcement and still not have enough manpower.

Then, the courts are a whole other story. I've seen docket backlogs of over 14 months. You finally get a court date a year from now, and then just before the date, the situation changes, and you have to amend all your documents, and the case gets pushed back another 14 months.

I can't say it enough. The system is broken.

ETA:
I have actually seen many cases where both parents pay child support to the other one! I have seen cases where 3 or 4 sets of parents pay child support in a circular pattern where everyone just about breaks even, LOL! There is so much spouse-swapping, divorce, and infidelity, that the whole thing doesn't hardly seem worth bothering with.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I noticed you did'nt respond to my post on page 3 re sibling rivalry!

I'm a big fan of debtor's jails, not to be confused with criminal jails. In Debtor's jails they can get work release during the day to pay up the debts and arrears in child support. Love it!

reply to post by getreadyalready


If you look at the stats you WILL find that a majority of single mothers DO work.

Every system is flawed from child support, the tax agency, banks, Police, Military, charity organisations, etc etc. At the end of the day, it costs money to bring up children. Don't want to pay, don't have em or risk going to debtor's jail.

Perhaps you prefer your kids to stand in line in Somalian refugee camps dying of starvation waiting for a cup of water and a tiny bowl of rice?

reply to post by Six6Six


Women have to pay child support if they don't have custody
of their children.
The father wins over the mother if he has a cheesier lawyer
than the mother.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by KrazyJethro

 

They also suspend any professional licenses such as RN or MD. They also seize any Federal or State payments such as tax returns, or Travel vouchers, or contract payments. They can revoke passports (even if you are out of the country at the time!). They can freeze bank accounts. They have SO MUCH enforcement power it is scary!! The automated enforcement system automatically sweeps all the USPS, licensure, taxes, credit bureaus, and other databases each night, and any potential hit is investigated.

Child support enforcement has more power to disrupt someone's life than any other agency in the nation, including the penal system. Child support enforcement can strand you in an airport indefinitely or put you in jail til you pay, or seize your accounts, or close down your livelihood.

In fact, if you are remarried, with an active family you are responsible for taking care of, child support enforcement can come in and take up to 55% of your salary to go towards your other kids. That means more of your income goes toward your illegitimate kids, than towards your own wife and kids in your own home!!

The problem isnt paying child support.
It's the utter lack of oversight by Child support law/court/collections.
The custodial parent can spend the money on jewels, clothes, drugs, etc..
Court doesnt care, won't investigate, and will not acknowledge any of this.
You still must pay or go to jail.

I never missed a payment and never complained about paying.
However:
I can pay on time every month. If my ex SAYS I missed a payment in court and Im not there to PROVE otherwise, a warrant is issued, and I get jailed until I get a hearing and the correct information is sorted out.
Happened to me 3 times in Florida, while my employer was bound to make the payments from my check ( the employer did make the payments).
Cops arrested me, even after looking at the paystuv showing payment made by employer, I was shackled hands AND FEET, taken to jail and to a hearing 2 days later.
I was released at the hearing, however, CSE asked them to RAISE my payments, because I was arrested for non payment.. due to their own mistakes.
Luckily the judge/magistrate saw how messed up this was, and said no.

Child support enforcement doesnt care about the child, only their flow of cash.
The system has always been broken, and has always been about the state making money off non custodial parents.

It's strong arm robbery in the name of children and it's sickening.

reply to post by BadNinja68


Don't you worry about that my little ninja.......benefit/welfare "debit" cards are about to be launched and rolled out not only right across the USA but also in Australia. That will solve all your problems then you won't have to squeal about how a custodial parent uses the money.

reply to post by BadNinja68

The problem isnt paying child support.
It's the utter lack of oversight by Child support law/court/collections.
The custodial parent can spend the money on jewels, clothes, drugs, etc..
Court doesnt care, won't investigate, and will not acknowledge any of this.
You still must pay or go to jail.

I had to deal with a woman that received $50,000 in one payment a couple of October's ago. In November, she was calling and screaming and wanting to know where November's payment was, it was 2 weeks late. The guy hadn't paid in years, but we finally got the $50k from a settlement he received and we seized. He wasn't going to pay anymore until the next time we seized something. Anyway, she said she couldn't feed her kids. I asked where the $50k went, (I didn't make any accusations or assumptions, I just asked where it went.) Her response..... "It's none of your business if I got rims on my car. You're just supposed to collect the money, you people are worthless" click. She hung up on me. $50k, and she can't feed her kids the very next month.

My wife called me crying just last week after taking a call. 3 kids in a home, the mother was screaming at her on the phone, telling her how worthless she was, how the kids weren't going to get any Christmas gifts, my wife put her on hold to look up something, the lady didn't realize she could still hear, and the background conversation between the caller and her friend was, "Girl, I gotta get this money, I gotta get blazed this weekend, you know how it is." Then, when my wife got back on the line, it was more yelling and screaming at her, and more claims that the kids couldn't eat or get Christmas presents. My wife hung up the phone feeling like crap, had to take a break and call me to cheer her up.

The look from the inside of this thing is much, much worse than the look from the outside.

The child support system was designed so that childern would get the help they need from what I call true "dead beat dads". Those are the dads that leave the mothers and their children with nothing, and never see their children. The problem is what happens to the "real" fathers that want nothing more than to spend equal time with their children.

The first probelm with the current laws is that even under the best of circumstances the courts refuse to recognize a fathers rights to equal time with his or in some cases her children. The laws must be changed to the presumption that both the mother and the father are to equally share in raisning thier vchildren. Which means that both parents get an equal amount of time. With the exception of PROVEN violence.

The second problem is that even though the laws may be fair the judges refuse to follow the laws. In all states there are procedures for modification of child support pending significant changes, however in most cases these modifications are denied. As an example a Fathers child support is based on his current income at the time of a divorce. Several years later he looses his job, is downsized or whatever, though the law states child support is calculated based on current income the judges refuse to follow those laws and do not modify the support order. This in turn creates a situation where the paying parent can no longer afford the support order, creates large arrearages and eventually coumpounds into the lose of his drivers liscense, jailtime, etc thus compunding the problem.

Judges need to be held accountable for the laws they are sworn to uphold and defend. In fact non-custodial parents rights granted under the constution are being tampled and violated by the courts and the child support system every day.

Until the men stand up and fight the system it will never change. Face it as far as fathers rights are concerned there is a huge problem with the men not fighting this broken system.

Here is my case in point which is not only a travesty of the judice system but the epitemy of what is wrong with the child support system today.

1. I filed for divorce to protect my children from an abusive mother.
2. I filed for an emergency hearing to keep my children away from her after she had been arrested with the children for shoplifting. The judge refused to have a hearing on the issue.
3. During the course of proceedings the court appointed custody doctor testified my former wife was a pathelogical liar, that she has been verbally and emotionally abusing the children, that she had exposed the children to pornograpy, and she had been repeatedly engaged in shoplifting. His reccomendation to the judge was that she have supervised visitation.
4. On the final divorce decree the judge blatently lies stating there is no evidence of abuse. Gives my ex the house and wording in a way that will never allow me to see my share of the equity in the house. To make matters worse he made no ruling on personal property and to this day my ex refuses and or has sold to give me any of my personal property back. This is in violation af numerous state stautes regarding equitable distribution.

5. I was self employed and at the time of the divorce and did not have up to date financial records. I was assesed child support at my 2007 income levels even though the divorce occured in 2009. Shorlty afterwards I filed a modification to adjust based on business income and net income decining becasue of the economy. In the first hearing the Judge outright denied me the ability to file any of my financial data. Outright refused to look at it and denied my claim.

6. Due to violations i was able to have the judges denial vacated and get a new child support hearing.

7. During the second child support hearing I was again denid a modification and to make matters worse the court maliciously broke many state and federal laws. For instance In Florida a Judge must file his decision no later than 90 days after a trial. The decision was handed down after 120 days. The law also states that I am to have 10 days to file exceptions to the report before the judge signs off on it. That never happened and as a matter of fact we never recieved the report until 60 days after it was signed by the judge thus screwing me out of appeals as appeals must be filed 30 days after an order is signed. This was an intentional act by the judge to squash my rights to due process.

8. I filed for an injunction against my ex becasue she was continuing to harass me at my business, she tried to run me over with her truck and was tecaching the children how to shoplift. TO make a long story short I agreed to dismiss those charges for more time with the kids. The settlement is documented and signed by the judge and basically gives me 47% of the time with the children.

9. According to the current child support guidelines my child support should be zero becasue of all the time I have the children overnights.

Great thread and really got me thinking, so I did some numbers and guess what?

You're worth more as an inmate most likely. Here is the proof.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by photobug


continued..... The appropriate motions were again filed but to this day the court has refused to hear them. However in the meantime they decided to file contempt of court against me for arrearages that are not even correctly calculated. During contmept proceeddings many state and federal laws were violated. I immediately appealed and the judge then issues a writ of attachment in violation of the 14th amendment and my right to due process. Thats where we sit today.

So tell me the system is not screwed up and tell me that good fathers are not being screwed by a system designed for true dead beat dads not those that are doing everything they can to raise and protect their children.

One last example..... There was a serviceman stationed in Iraq or Afgasnistan (sp) was captured and was a prisoner of war for at least 6 months. He was eventually released and returned to the states. Upon arrival at the airport he was immediately arrested for child support becasue during the time he was a prisoner of war his child support payments got screwed up.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by BadNinja68

 

Don't you worry about that my little ninja.......benefit/welfare "debit" cards are about to be launched and rolled out not only right across the USA but also in Australia. That will solve all your problems then you won't have to squeal about how a custodial parent uses the money.

No one has called me "little" in a long time.

1. No one in the CS dept will oversee the purchase resords from the cards.
Now the banks can get a cut of the CS money along with the state.
Screw the kids.. this is how we keep our jobs!
However, the purchase information WILL be sold to the highest bidder in the private sector.

2. we all can just blame the system, claim we are doing our jobs, and keep screwing up families.
The system is broken and needs to be put down.
Don't war criminals say they were only following orders?
If you work in this system, you support it, so enogh of the workers here acting innocent.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Re the story of the $50k:

Firstly, it was'nt your business to ask what she did with the money. Thats not your job detail so you stepped out of line then and there. ($50k and I'm sure I could buy a home for that in the USA and be mortgage free).

Secondly, is it not possible that some mothers who don't get child support, go in to credit debt to pay bills and extras for the kids? I know I did afew times in the past when money was'nt coming in.

No parent is obligated to pay above and beyond the day to day living costs; Xmas pressies and any extras really is just a treat.