Zionism versus Anti Semitism?

I would especially be curious to see a Jewish person's input here. My view is, that Zionism is Israel-as-a-US 'base' over in the Muslim areas. This is not to be confused with the right of Israel to exist there, NOR the right of Jewish people to live and thrive there. Otherwise, I have utterly nothing against Judaism. Zionism to me, is all about Western war hawk tyrrany, basically.
How is Zionism Anti Semitism?

reply to post by simone50m


This is actually a very important topic because many people are called racist and anti Semitic because they don't believe in the Zionist view. If anything, they are anti Zionist but not a racist. I guess a good example would the 25,000 Jewish people who live in Iran presently. They do no support Zionism. In fact, wealthy Jews offered to pay them to move out of Iran and into Israel but that was offer was declined.

Iran's proud but discreet Jews

news.bbc.co.uk...

Although Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, few know that Iran is home to the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East outside Israel. About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures - as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots.

Mr Hammami says state-run television confuses Zionism and Judaism so that "ordinary people may think that whatever the Israelis do is supported by all Jews".

Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel

www.guardian.co.uk...

For those who say Iran's Prez want's Israel wiped off the map, well read below.

In the article below we reported that last year President Ahmadinejad said (quoting the late Ayatollah Khomeini) that Israel should be "wiped off the map". A more literal translation of the statement he made in 2005, at The World without Zionism conference in Tehran, is "the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

The incentives — ranging from £5,000 a person to £30,000 for families — were offered from a special fund established by wealthy expatriate Jews in an effort to prompt a mass migration to Israel from among Iran's 25,000-strong Jewish community. The offers were made with Israel's official blessing and were additional to the usual state packages it provides to Jews emigrating from the diaspora.

However, the Society of Iranian Jews dismissed them as "immature political enticements" and said their national identity was not for sale.

I watched this earlier today and almost posted it with my own commentary. This guy gives a view on this. You also need to research The Three Oaths. LINK There is more here than we in the West really understand. The surest perspective comes from the Bible actually. The root of truth on this matter is that the Hebrew people themselves have missed the point of their own OT prophets. You will not find one perspective that is seen as truth. There are loads of perspectives from every angle.

Zionism is a disease that REAL jews DONT suffer from.
.

reply to post by simone50m

You don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist.
2nd

reply to post by SuperiorEd


This Rabbi's Weiss website should also be posted, www.nkusa.org...

NETUREI KARTA AROUND THE WORLD Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews support Shaykh Rayd Salah

My understanding is, there is original Zionism (the desire for Jews to return to their homeland), and there is Neo-Zionism (a political movement that is a perversion of the original Jewish belief). You don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist, the freemason's are Zionists too (because Solomon's Temple was located on the Temple Mount, in Jerusalem)... Zionism is based on the belief that the Jews must return to and acquire their homeland, which they believe to be Israel. Sounds simple enough, but Neo-Zionism has morphed and perverted that belief to a completely different, sinister level. Neo-Zionists want to secure Israel, but they don't stop there. The politically driven Neo-Zionists are also tied in with globalism and centralization of world powers, striving to abolish national sovereignties globally, and ultimately use their powers to create a one world government, with them at the top.

Basically "Zionists" want to rule the world.

I'm constantly called Anti Semite ,because of my views towards Zionism ,especially here on ATS.

My stance towards Zionism won't change ,to me they are a racist cult ,who seek and believe the world is theirs to own to govern and take advantage of the silly little book of religion to justify there actions ,a group of megalomaniac corporate warmongers.

When I made this thread, it was very late at night, and I retired for the eve. So I'm up and --"awake"--- and most impressed with these replies. This is an education for me, I didn't know there were Orthodox Jews activist against Zionism, but then like a previous poster said here, you don;t have to be of that heritage, to be Zionist.

reply to post by Swills

Dear Swills,

Thanks for steering me to this thread. It took me longer to get here than I expected. There appear to be two themes in the thread, the first being an attempt to define Zionism. It seems that, at least in this thread, Zionism has no agreed upon meaning and is an inflammatory term to many. I don't see that it has any usefullness in a discussion, but I'm happy to be corrected.

The second theme seems to be more promising, but I'll need your help with it. This theme is the argument of the Rabbi in your videos. The help I'll need is in understanding what he is saying. It may be my ears, or speakers, or sound card, but I missed a fair amount of what he had to say.

I did get that he believed the Torah forbids a state for the Jews. He also says that without a country Jews would be left in peace, and it was only the desire for a country of their own which led to conflict. Please tell me what his other arguments were, I just wasn't able to hear them, especially the one on racism.

Concerning the Torah argument, which of us can discuss that intelligently? I can't. Just as Muslims say that the Koran has to be read in Arabic to obtain the full meaning, and it has to be interpreted in the light of thousands of other writings, I'm sure the Torah is open to various interpretations. Some Jews say they can have a state and some say they can't. It appears that the policy of Israel is based on the idea that they can.

I'd like to look at the left in peace point in another post. Would you be so kind as to correct my errors so far and add your understanding of the Rabbi's other arguments? Thanks a lot.

With respect,
Charles1952

HUH?

This is the definition of Zionism: A movement for (originally) the reestablishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in Israel.

To support a Jewish state makes you a Zionist. Therefore, i am a Zionist.

How this term has been debased and become a new word for Nazi, is quite disturbing.

How many people dont even know the proper definition, meaning, and historical context of this movement is frightening! It'll undoubtedly, mark my words, be used as a means to kill more Jews.

reply to post by charles1952


Most religious Jews are either Religious Zionist, or neutral. All oppose the secular government and culture in Israel.

But do not confuse things. No reasonable Jew could say Judaism, Torah, Israel and the land of Israel dont go together. As many religious Zionists argue, Judaism has always been a land centered religion. Judaism is to be practiced in Israel - the Bible is very clear about that.

Only for political reasons have the Jews been prevented for close to 2000 years from returning to their land. The desire never faded; the connection between Judaism and Israel remains intact. When they are not in Israel, they are in Galut - exile.

The non-Zionist Jews claim the Talmud exhorts Jews not to go and settle Israel. But, it qualifies that restriction with other issues. Not to go into it here, the Political situation of the Jews has changed, and according to Jewish eschatology, we are approaching that time in which the Messiah is believed to return. Thus, Abraham Isaac kook, the founder of Religious Zionism, argued that secular Zionism was the vehicle to bring about a renewed Jewish Kingdom. The secularists would "plow" ie; build the infrastructure of the state, whereas the religious Jews would "reap" inherit the state. Many prophecies in the books of the prophets appear to allude this situation.

The arguments of the non-zionists are poor and rely on outdated, and frankly unreasonable assumptions..

Theres good reason why they are in the minority.

Originally posted by JudgeDeath
reply to post by simone50m

 

You don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist.
2nd

"I am a Zionist," stated Senator Biden. "You don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist."

Joe Biden agree's with you

Zionism is the nationalism of Israel. And any nationalism needs to be eradicated for peace.

Like German nationalism during 1939, Serbian nationalism during the Yugowar, proc/roc China, N/S Korea ect ect, nationalism just breeds hatred.

reply to post by LibertarianExpress

Dear LibertarianExpress,

If we communicate often, you will discover that confusion is my most frequent mental state, and so it is now.

If your objection is to nationalism, do you prefer a one world government? Anarchy? How do you feel about the Palestinians trying to become a recognized nation? Do I misunderstand your meaning of "nationalism?"

With respect,
Charles1952

I am for nationalism, when it means, a country that is proud of it's Borders Language Culture, and protects/maintains them, but however, when the nationalism turns into something like ancient Rome, that is bad. I do not like the nationalism of the self-identified Christian conservatives who are Neocon warhawks. There is a "Christian" movement I am aware of, I think George W Bush holds this view, that, like in the Old Testament where this group of guys felt "God" tell them to go into these certain villages and slay everyone, and spare not the infant and the elderly (pets etc probably as well) and this certain mysterious sect of ultra far right wing Christians holds a belief like....that, which involved helping bring about Armageddon, for the End Times and Second Coming. These particular "Conservatives" it appears to me, like to put all the tax money from the peoples of the US and Israel, into building their war machine might, while threatening a country like Iran, and telling it that it is not allowed to have defense capabilities, like the Neocons.
In regards to US nationalism, those particular kinds of Neocons are NOT REALLY pro America, like a Ron Paul, they seem to feign such, use it, for sinister Elitist agendas.

The original post is exactly backward.

The US military has no bases in Israel. It is one of the few countries in the world that does not have a major US military presence.

That "proves" that Israel controls the US not the other way around.

In fact a small group of radical bastards in the US run both the US and Israel.

The fact that Israel exist proves the Zionist occupation of the US and most European / Western nations.

ISREAL IS FUNDAMENTALLY EVIL