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Noam Chomsky on Ron Paul's 9/11 Theories: What He Says Is Uncontroversial!

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posted on Sep, 14 2011 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by tom1701
How about you do your own research on noem the idiot chomsky......


So why don't you enlighten us as to why noem [sic] is the idiot, and it's not simply yourself?

You can't even spell his name corectly lol.


He is no idiot, by any means. However, he is a self-describes anarcho-Socialist with ties to international socialist unions. He is highly educated, and intellectual elite, but that does not make his ideas compatible with our Founding Fathers and our Constitution.




posted on Sep, 15 2011 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 
Could you clarify exactly what your issue with it is? It's merely a hypothetical and is only being used to get people to think about how we would react if a similar situation happened to us. I'm assuming it was simply thought more effective than the maker of the video just saying "imagine if we were the Iranians", since many in the US have a hard time empathizing with certain groups outside our borders...

On a side note, I have no idea if the maker of the video has any affiliation with or feelings for Ron Paul one way or the other, so I don't it should be attributed to Ron Paul supporters one way or the other aside from being an honest question to highlight foreign policy issues.

Take care.



posted on Sep, 15 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

He is no idiot, by any means. However, he is a self-describes anarcho-Socialist with ties to international socialist unions. He is highly educated, and intellectual elite, but that does not make his ideas compatible with our Founding Fathers and our Constitution.


I understand exactly what he supports, the question is do you?

What makes you think he is part of the elite, he's just a linguist professor.

Who cares about your 'founding fathers', capitalism is destroying the world we live in.



posted on Sep, 15 2011 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 







Could you clarify exactly what your issue with it is?


Sorry, I thought you were asking about something else, but in any case I will take in the material and think about it, and research more. It was thought provoking.

Oh yes, now I remember....I objected to the comparison of Christians to militant islam....so while it was presented as a hypothetical, I picked up on a slightly anti-Christian view. I could be wrong.

edit on 15-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

He is no idiot, by any means. However, he is a self-describes anarcho-Socialist with ties to international socialist unions. He is highly educated, and intellectual elite, but that does not make his ideas compatible with our Founding Fathers and our Constitution.


I understand exactly what he supports, the question is do you?

What makes you think he is part of the elite, he's just a linguist professor.

Who cares about your 'founding fathers', capitalism is destroying the world we live in.


That is your opinion of course. What about him is so important that you are defending him? Why do people insist on telling people who are opponents of socialism that it must be because they don't really know what it is?
How about you tell me what you think Capitalism is, and why Capitalism is ruining the world? It will make an interesting discussion.

And for the record, a lot of people care about our Founding Fathers...millions

edit on 15-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


No worries, and no anti-christian slant intended by myself or the creator of the video, as far as I can tell - I'm christian myself. Just trying to get everyone to consider how they'd handle similar cases.

Take care.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

That is your opinion of course. What about him is so important that you are defending him?


What's so important that you want to discredit him? I was a libertarian socialist long before I ever heard of him, and I don't agree with all he says, but he educates people.


Why do people insist on telling people who are opponents of socialism that it must be because they don't really know what it is?


Because most people don't. Most people think capitalism is free-markets, and socialism is free stuff from the government.


How about you tell me what you think Capitalism is, and why Capitalism is ruining the world? It will make an interesting discussion.


Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production. What we need to produce for our needs are privately owned, and resources are kept artificially scarce in order to maintain profits for the owner. People are coerced to compete for 'jobs' in order to live.

Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production. What we need to produce for our needs are available to those willing to work, to produce what we need, not produce profit for someones greed.
It's not government hand outs as government is not required, thus you have libertarian socialism, anarchism, stateless socialism. It's not what happened in USSR or China. There are, and have not been, any socialist countries, only state dictatorships.


Anarchism is stateless socialism, Bakunin



And for the record, a lot of people care about our Founding Fathers...millions


Well good for them. Thousands of people care about themselves and their future, and know that capitalism has failed, and the only way we all have a chance is through socialism. America is not the only country that matters.
Your founding fathers have absolutely nothing to do with what is going on in the world now.


edit on 9/16/2011 by ANOK because: typo



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


No worries, and no anti-christian slant intended by myself or the creator of the video, as far as I can tell - I'm christian myself. Just trying to get everyone to consider how they'd handle similar cases.

Take care.



Yes, I hear you. For the most part I think it's a fine vid.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Socialism = free stuff is just a condensation of it down to an understandable essence. what country did you say you are in?

technically even the free stuff isn't free. It's just redistributed.

Question for you. Do you really believe that socialism will give you freedom? By it's very definition, it is the collective over the individual.




Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production. What we need to produce for our needs are available to those willing to work, to produce what we need, not produce profit for someones greed.


Oh yah thank you for that. You forgot the part where Marx said from each according to the ability to each according to their need. That's income redistribution. And how did the former USSR end up with that?

edit on 16-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Exactly. I think you should make a thread that properly explains what libertarian socialism is. I think you're the only other person I've seen who actually understands it.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:11 PM
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reply to post by TreesusChrist
 


Thanx mate, some very rare support!

I've often thought about and even started a thread on this, but I'm afraid I know too well how it will go down. I would be forced to defend my position for infinity, because people simply don't want what I say to be true.

No one is willing to verify the claims for themselves by doing any real research, and getting a sense of the true political history of the last 200 years, and simply look for things to contradict it.

Capitalism is the biggest conspiracy there is, bar none. People are conditioned to believe capitalism is freedom, and socialism is slavery.


edit on 9/16/2011 by ANOK because: Anarchy Peace and Bananas



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


So tell me how socialism is freedom then. You and Treesus here can edumacate me on how it works.

You say that in capitalism, people are coerced to compete for jobs to live. You advocate worker ownership of the means of production. That is collectivism no matter how you slice and dice it. Under such a system of collective ownership, there is no private property, hence the govt can take away anything you worked to get and give it to someone else they deem need it. This actually penalizes workers and causes people to not want to work harder because no matter how hard you work you will not get anything more for it.
edit on 16-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


i always thought socialism was when you wanted other peoples money and too lazy to get on your own and have government make it so.

of course some people will get catch their heads in text book defintions whereas real life experience always seem to contradict.
edit on 16-9-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


MY lack of understanding.

US wasn't attacked because of that. Yeh, overseas embassies, sure. NOT 9/11. The perpetrator RUNS your Govt and will try and RUN Ron Paul too. If that doesn't work, well, Lincoln, Kennedy...'They' have no interest in 'for the people'.

I am insulted that you accuse my lack of understanding when all the evidence and 'coincidences' and WTC7 point to who's really behind it.

I loved your country when I was a child. How innocent and naive I was! I love my country even less though so please don't take this the wrong way.

I'm pretty sure he said 'Osama said:'. I want to see when Osama said them. This was the cause of my rant.
edit on 14-9-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)


I like Ron Paul but you are right.

OBL denied he had anything to do with 9/11 on a tape recorded message that was all but ignored or willfully deleted on the internet.

A person can probably still find the English transcipt. It is not dramatic and nothing that should drive Americans into a rage and want them to travel 6,000 km and have a leg shot off for so maybe that explains why it was surpressed.

As far as I know it was the only recording that was not questioned with regard to authenticity and the last "real" one from him.

Didn't he die just after that?

* countries *

Countries are inanimate concepts that are defined by others and we are usually simply born into or migrate into.

Few people love the block they were born on or their current postal / zip code and it sounds odd to even suggest anyone would so why does loving out country sound reasonable?


Our countries don't need us to love them as much as our fellow citizens need us to love freedom and justice.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by ANOK
 


So tell me how socialism is freedom then. You and Treesus here can edumacate me on how it works.


Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production. A system whereby instead of private ownership, of the means of production, you have cooperative/collective work places where the profits go to the workers instead of a private owner who then pays the workers a 'wage'. People are more motivated to produce, as their production directly relates to what they earn, which will be more than a 'wage'. Under the capitalist system it is in the workers best interest to do the least they can, for the most they can earn.


You say that in capitalism, people are coerced to compete for jobs to live.


Yes because we want to work, we all want to work, but we don't want 'jobs'. We don't need anyone to create 'jobs' for us, we can produce what we need if we had the means to do it. Resources would no longer need to be kept artificially scarce in order to maintain 'profit'. The means to produce for our needs should be available for all who wish to produce, for their needs.

In this system you cannot produce for yourself, you have to have a 'job'. 'Please mister, give us a job'.

It is in the best interest of the capitalist to maintain a healthy unemployed class. If 'jobs' were in abundance then the capitalist would have to continually increase wages, and improve work conditions, because the workers would have no problem quitting and finding a new job.

Capitalism creates the lower classes, and the poverty they suffer. Poverty is a lack of resources, and capitalism requires that resources are kept artificially scarce (including 'jobs').


Technological capacity to produce enough to satisfy everyone's needs already exists globally and has done so for many decades. Yet needs continue to remain unmet on a massive scale. Why? Quite simply because scarcity is a functional requirement of capitalism itself.

www.worldsocialism.org...

When capitalist economies go bad the means to produce are still available, but of course their access is denied.
At least under feudalism we had common land laws, and people were allowed free access to unused land, as long as they used it productively.


You advocate worker ownership of the means of production. That is collectivism no matter how you slice and dice it.


Yes it is collectivism, I never said it wasn't. Worker ran collectives/cooperatives are by far more efficient than privately owned companies right now, even in America.


Conclusion
....This paper has presented benefits to be gained by moving to a cooperative system and ways of achieving those goals. The end result could represent a great increase in the quality of life for a majority of humanity, but there is a small minority of capitalists who must be convinced to give up their "power" in favor of helping their neighbors. This is the real challenge.


www.boogles.com...

Why are you scared of collectives?


Under such a system of collective ownership, there is no private property, hence the govt can take away anything you worked to get and give it to someone else they deem need it.


That's where the libertarian comes in. Socialism frees the economy to allow us to produce what we need, as apposed to producing crap for someones greed, libertarianism frees us from the state and government.

Classical Libertarianism is Anarchism. Libertarian Socialism is Social Anarchism, Anarcho-Socialism, ANSOC.

(the right stole the term libertarianism from the left in the 50's)


This actually penalizes workers and causes people to not want to work harder because no matter how hard you work you will not get anything more for it.


No, that is not true. What you earn directly relates to your labour, as it should. Think of it as, you have access to the machinery to do the work you want or need, and you produce what you want or need. It is a different mind set than producing mass crap, in order to coerce the population into consuming crap that it doesn't need, when half the world isn't getting what it does need. It's a ridiculous way of running things, and it only really benefits those lucky enough to own capital it can use to exploit labour. You have all been conditioned to think of yourself and what you get out of it, instead of seeing the big picture and realizing that that mind set is self destructive, and it's taking us all down with it.


edit on 9/17/2011 by ANOK because: Anarchy Peace and Bananas



posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by ANOK
 


Socialism = free stuff is just a condensation of it down to an understandable essence. what country did you say you are in?

technically even the free stuff isn't free. It's just redistributed.

Question for you. Do you really believe that socialism will give you freedom? By it's very definition, it is the collective over the individual.




Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production. What we need to produce for our needs are available to those willing to work, to produce what we need, not produce profit for someones greed.


Oh yah thank you for that. You forgot the part where Marx said from each according to the ability to each according to their need. That's income redistribution. And how did the former USSR end up with that?

edit on 16-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


Chomsky explains Socialism. You should watch this vid and stop spreading disinformation...






edit on 12-12-2011 by blackrain17 because: (no reason given)




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